Tesla Solar Panels and/or Powerwall - Northern Napa County

[slowry]

We are looking to add a 16 kWh solar panel system along with several (possibly 3 or 4) powerwalls to our house in northern Napa county. I'm looking for advice regarding installation / technology / companies to use.

The reviews of Tesla Solar in the area look pretty bad across the board, but the pricing seems to be good (too low?). We are having some other solar installers come out this week that we found on Yelp with high reviews.

The problem is that we are also interested in a battery backup and it seems stacking Tesla's powerwall could backup the entire house (whereas other companies can't; SunRun can only back up a few breakers on a single sub-panel; and Sonnen is tied to one sub-panel. We, unfortunately, have 6 sub-panels on the property). We have a country property and need to figure out a way to power multiple of these sub-panels when PGE shuts off our power in the fall during their "public safety emergencies".

Telsa powerwall installation teams seem to get good reviews, although it looks like the SGIP rebates are no longer available through Tesla directly. Quotes from certified Tesla powerwall installers are at least $5k higher, which defeats the SGIP rebate.

Does anyone have any recommendations regarding a solar and/or battery installer? Offhand, it seems the Tesla powerwall is the only system that can provide multi-panel support; and I'm not sure how it would work if we use a different solar installer. I like monitoring integration with our Tesla app given that we have a Model S and 3, but it's not critical - just want to have the install go well and keep the power on when PGE shuts off our power.

We also need a new roof in order to install the solar, so looking for referrals there as well.

Any help/recommendations would be greatly appreciated!

 

[MorrisonHiker]

We put in over 16.5 kW of solar with 3 Powerwalls last year and were 100% satisfied with Tesla. It was a long process but we kept requesting they increase the size of the system (from 11 kW to 13 kW to 16.5 kW) so it required many cycles back and forth and approval from our utility company.

We're already planning on adding more solar and will be going with Tesla again. One thing we really liked was the aesthetics of the Tesla solar system and the fact that we have US made panels and a 25 year warranty. Tesla installed things so they looked nice and were able to avoid the "missing tooth" look that most other solar installers would've used by going around plumping vent pipes. They also have side and front skirts which make the panels blend in better on the roof. The panels are also all arranged nicely. One of the solar companies showed us a diagram with panels going every which way and it looked horrible, like someone had just randomly placed them on the roof, arranging them both vertically and horizontally and putting some panels by themselves. Also, I found that the other solar companies kept trying to pitch leasing options instead of selling us the solar system. When we asked about specific panels, etc., they told us "You don't care. It doesn't matter." The thing is, we did care and it did matter. They didn't get our business and we went with Tesla.

You might take a look at EnergySage as well. You can give them some basic information and they will have various solar installers contact you with questions and then bids. Many people took these competitive bids to Tesla and were able to get a price-match. In our case, Tesla had the lowest bid. They might initially offer cheaper panels but you can ask for more efficient panels and they will give you a quote for each.

 

[slowry]

What panels / inverter did you get from Tesla?

I've also read that they have several different types, and that we may need to ask for the higher efficiency panels Tesla makes here in the U.S.

 

[dandrewk]

We live in San Rafael and have had a SunPower system since early 2006. It's still going strong, not a lick of trouble (knock wood). A few months ago we added three Powerwalls, and then last month nearly doubled out solar output with a 4 kW system, all from Tesla.

I've been a homeowner in N.Cal since 1981. I've had tons of work done - contractors, electricians, plumbers, etc, including a major house extension. I have never had a more positive experience with the Tesla crews that showed up to do the work. They went out of their way to be courteous and informative and 100% professional. The system installed is very slick and fits our needs perfectly. And, as you've discovered, they are the cheapest, sometimes by a lot. Since these installers are based in Petaluma, you may get the same crew (or similar).

Be aware that many other installers will stonewall you if you want to pay cash. They are very aggressive about having you lease as they get "finder fees" from the finance company. Some will refuse to even give a bid if they think you are cash only.

Our new additions at too new to know how reliable they are. There -have- been issues, mainly due to the complexity of retrofitting a 2nd solar setup/Powerwall into an existing system. But they have been very responsive is correcting the issues, and are one of the very few companies where the support person followed up a few days later to make sure things are fixed and working.

Tesla Energy was/is going through massive turnover. It's by no means a death spiral, but a natural process of absorbing Solar City into Tesla corporate. The biggest issue for me (and others) is the loooong wait times for phone support, especially Powerwall. That -has- to improve. Recently they instituted "24 hour turnaround", meaning the system will be installed within 24 hours of permit issue. We experienced this last month: the building permit was approved, they set up an install for the -next morning-. By 2 PM, the system was working.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

What panels / inverter did you get from Tesla?

I've also read that they have several different types, and that we may need to ask for the higher efficiency panels Tesla makes here in the U.S.

We got the US made Panasonic 325 W panels which were the highest efficiency panels at the time. They might be offering even higher efficiency panels currently. We also considered the black on black Panasonic panels but they produced 10 W less per panel and were only a few dollars less each. Since we wanted the most efficient panels possible, we stuck with the 325 W panels.

If I had to do it over again, I might've opted for a combination and had 22 of the more visible panels at 315 W and the other 29 panels at 325 W. That would've been a good compromise but the way we did it, we'll have more solar production.

We have three Delta Solivia inverters with 9 different strings. We didn't need optimizers or microinverters since we don't have any trees or structures casting shade on the panels.

 

[napabill]

There -have- been issues, mainly due to the complexity of retrofitting a 2nd solar setup/Powerwall into an existing system.

This is exactly what I'm getting ready to do. Have a 6kW Solar City, and want to add 4kW, plus 2 PW's. What issues should I be aware of?

 

[dandrewk]

This is exactly what I'm getting ready to do. Have a 6kW Solar City, and want to add 4kW, plus 2 PW's. What issues should I be aware of?

Powerwall installers came first, they wired everything perfect and the system was running before they left. The app was reporting correctly as well.

Then we decided we wanted additional solar power to add to our existing system. Tesla's solar installers installed a 4 kW system in the morning, and by mid afternoon it was running, and the app was running well, showing the additional solar power. However, they didn't wire the new system through the existing PG&E solar meter. This didn't affect me, but would have prevented PTO approval from PG&E.

A few days later, another crew was here and spent the morning rewiring. Before they left, I noticed my app wasn't showing solar output correctly, and was not showing -any- draw from the home. Worse, solar was no longer recharging the PWs, so they were essentially bricks at that time. I called PW tech support (hint: use the "we'll call back when it's your turn" option when given). I explained the situation, he put me hold for about a minute, said he saw the problem and would be corrected (on their side) in a day or two, and promised a call back to make sure it was fixed. Two days later (Sunday morning) I checked the app and suddenly the PWs were charging and everything looked great.

;tldr According to PW tech support, when a change like this is made Tesla has to adjust configurations on their end. Apparently the second solar crew didn't do that.

All in all, my complaints are minor. This was really the only hiccup, and I have to give Tesla some slack as it was a complicated retrofit. They were responsive and fast.

 

[napabill]

Powerwall installers came first, they wired everything perfect and the system was running before they left. The app was reporting correctly as well.

Then we decided we wanted additional solar power to add to our existing system. Tesla's solar installers installed a 4 kW system in the morning, and by mid afternoon it was running, and the app was running well, showing the additional solar power. However, they didn't wire the new system through the existing PG&E solar meter. This didn't affect me, but would have prevented PTO approval from PG&E.

A few days later, another crew was here and spent the morning rewiring. Before they left, I noticed my app wasn't showing solar output correctly, and was not showing -any- draw from the home. Worse, solar was no longer recharging the PWs, so they were essentially bricks at that time. I called PW tech support (hint: use the "we'll call back when it's your turn" option when given). I explained the situation, he put me hold for about a minute, said he saw the problem and would be corrected (on their side) in a day or two, and promised a call back to make sure it was fixed. Two days later (Sunday morning) I checked the app and suddenly the PWs were charging and everything looked great.

;tldr According to PW tech support, when a change like this is made Tesla has to adjust configurations on their end. Apparently the second solar crew didn't do that.

All in all, my complaints are minor. This was really the only hiccup, and I have to give Tesla some slack as it was a complicated retrofit. They were responsive and fast.

Did you consider getting another quote before committing to Tesla? I'm having Northern Pacific Power in Santa Rosa give a quote to compare to Tesla's.

 

[slowry]

Yes - we're having a couple other third party installers come out to the property to take a look and provide a quote (sometime next week). I also signed up for EnergySage as suggested by MorrisonHiker and we've gotten a couple quotes through their platform. In general, the EnergySage installers get really good reviews, and I've been impressed by their product transparency and the buying details/warranties, etc. Seems fairly transparent.

Although, the EnergySage quotes have been a bit inconsistent. For example, we were quoted 72 panels (23.7 kW system) to produce ~24,000 kWh/year, whereas Tesla's suggested system size was 16 kW for the same annual production. Big discrepancy in cost for the EnergySage quote compared to Tesla, despite the cost/kWh being lower.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

Yes - we're having a couple other third party installers come out to the property to take a look and provide a quote (sometime next week). I also signed up for EnergySage as suggested by MorrisonHiker and we've gotten a couple quotes through their platform. In general, the EnergySage installers get really good reviews, and I've been impressed by their product transparency and the buying details/warranties, etc. Seems fairly transparent.

Glad you got signed up are are getting some quotes. I should've given you my EnergySage referral link. Doh!

Although, the EnergySage quotes have been a bit inconsistent. For example, we were quoted 72 panels (23.7 kW system) to produce ~24,000 kWh/year, whereas Tesla's suggested system size was 16 kW for the same annual production. Big discrepancy in cost for the EnergySage quote compared to Tesla, despite the cost/kWh being lower.

That does sound odd for such a large system to produce so little. You might want to ask why the number is so low. We had a 16.5 kW system put in and Tesla estimated annual production at 22000 kWh/year. We're at 11 months so far and have already passed that.

 

[dandrewk]

Did you consider getting another quote before committing to Tesla? I'm having Northern Pacific Power in Santa Rosa give a quote to compare to Tesla's.

Yes, Solar First in San Rafael. They were considerably higher.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Az here. Install for 8kW+2PW coming this Tuesday. Tesla experience has been great for me here and with our Model 3 purchased in March 2018. I also have a 100A sub panel for the pool area, not a problem.

First off, you're considering a new roof but buying solar now? I would research the new Solar Glass Roof by Tesla. If I could I would, but they don't sell the curved tiles yet.

Our local Solar company offered to install the Tesla PWs for several thousand more than Tesla's quote. They explained that "they charge a flat fee to cover any potential issues, unlike others who nickel and dime you." So I went with Tesla because I don't pay for other people's problems. I had several A/C guys give me the same $$$ line of sales (we might need to widen the attic opening, or things might not go as planned... crap). Plus it's all Tesla now with an integrated App.

Tesla is growing very quickly, so bound to be shock waves and turbulence, but they are adapting and getting very efficient IMHO; I've seen it change personally, especially service - Just one Tesla App interaction to schedule, and the car fix was done in my driveway. No humans were involved from my end except for the Mobile Tech, a bright kit would was extremely informative.

My solar is a bit different. I met with the Install Supervisor from Tesla. He will meet the crew of 8 (3 Ground + 5 Roof) to be complete in 1 day. (This I gotta see.) They offered to install my Softstarts on the new A/C for free (simple but cool of them, and not "nickel and dime" as warned). Furthermore, SRP was requiring that they run their own conduit to the garage, but I worked with the Team and SRP (Utility in Az) to save $2K and share my pipes that I just installed for the Model 3 charging. So far, I'm very impressed, but had some suggestions for improvements that were minor really.

Our system is 55% of demand. They first recommended 12 kW+3PWs, but SRP prices are so low at night and they'll only give you 3 cents on net metering. Given this, you can get a nice ROI in about 10-14 yrs (depending on how many PWs). Every utility company is different so run the numbers on your costs. Although I feel I'm underpowered, there are several things I can do to reduce my demand, and I think that's a better approach. Attic insulation, more shade, passive solutions. Heck, I bet having all those panels on the roof saves a bunch just shading the roof! And maybe I don't run the yard lights in the evenings... so many ways to conserve. When I'm done, these could meet 100% demand.

Our home will be 100% backed up (meaning that I can run my A/C and whatever, up to ~60A continuous, on just battery power). I'll charge the car using the grid at night, along with the pool pump (which is still very inefficient). I had to get new A/C units with Scroll compressors + Soft Starts to run off just 2 batteries.

I did read SolarReviews and that's some turbulence there about Tesla. I don't know details nor how many are fake. I see nothing but FUD everyday regarding Tesla, so you cannot trust many sources. Best to talk to a person you know - which is 100% how Tesla advertises. Think about that statement. How long could a business last if they actually sucked but relied on word of mouth as their #1 growth strategy? Maybe it's the ones advertising the most that should be avoided.

Sorry for anyone that was part of the first 3 failed SpaceX launches here in solar land. No doubt they will get it right, and so far it's been top notch here. I've got many friends watching to see what I say. Solar got a bad wrap from decades past, and now everyone I meet hates the whole lease scam from that past and therefore have a really bad taste for all solar still today - yes, everyone.

Good luck with your solar project. I heard many were adding powerwalls out west because of the fires. My heart goes out to all out there, especially with fire insurance being cancelled on some of you.

 

[slowry]

We signed up to get Tesla's solar panels back on September 11, 2019 and really haven't made much progress in almost 2 months. Took 3 weeks for Tesla to come out and do a sight inspection, then they recommended roof repairs (which we already knew about and advised them since day 1 we were looking to replace our roof at the same time). The roofer called a few days later and told us the earliest they could come see the property another 3 weeks later on Oct. 30. Then, a few days before the appointment, the roofer emailed and told us "it just so happens the project manager really can't make it out on Oct. 30". They wanted to reschedule for a few more weeks down the road.

I also had to ask "engineering" for the initial design, and it turns out they are using Hanwah QCells now instead of the Panasonic panels for "aesthetic" purposes. From what I can tell, the Panasonic panels are superior in just about every category from production, to degregation, to heat related efficiencies, etc. Pretty surprised that we can't get the Panasonic panels anymore. Very disappointing.

Long story short, we're pretty frustrated with the process and lack of progress and plan to cancel and go with another provider. I liked the idea of complete system integration, including with the app, but what good does that do if we can't actually get to the point of building out the system?

I do have an inquiry in for the solar roof; but I doubt we'll move with it given that the technology is extremely expensive and experimental (I know it's V3, but we still don't know how well it will perform in actual production).

This is all in addition to the fact that Tesla is refusing to honor a referral who purchased a Model 3 with our code. Our friend got the 6 months free supercharging referral incentive, but we never got ours. When we inquired, our referral code had magically disappeared from our friend's account. Tesla still refused to honor the referral even after we forwarded the back-and-forth with the Tesla (energy) rep who told our friend (multiple times) that she would enter the code; she then proceeded to tell us she never had authority to enter it because she's on the energy side. None of it adds up. Telsa has since gone dark. Pretty disappointing.

We've had some pretty good experiences (our mobile service guy is awesome!) with the company and some have been absolutely horrible (like the solar information/ordering process. Model 3 phone keys, referrals, etc.).

On the topic of Powerwall, we are looking to install those as well (probably 3-4). In all, PGE shut our power off for more than 2 weeks during October (on four separate PSPS "events"), and we were eventually evacuated because of the Sonoma fire. PGE is an absolutely awful and negligent utility, and I'd go off-grid if we could.

Anyway, we are looking to go through an authorized Powerwall installer as opposed to Tesla at this point.

 

[MikeW]

I also had to ask "engineering" for the initial design, and it turns out they are using Hanwah QCells now instead of the Panasonic panels for "aesthetic" purposes. From what I can tell, the Panasonic panels are superior in just about every category from production, to degregation, to heat related efficiencies, etc. Pretty surprised that we can't get the Panasonic panels anymore. Very disappointing.

I got a bid from Tesla Solar in August, the initial design specified Hanwha QCell panels and Delta inverter. I said I wanted Panasonic panels and SolarEdge inverter, and they were willing to do that at no additional cost. They switched to 315 watt Panasonic panels.

In the end I decided to buy the equipment myself from https://tandem-solar-systems.com which ended up saving about 10% and I got the Panasonic 335W panels.

After getting the solar, the PG&E shut offs happened and I am getting Powerwalls from Tesla. I'm waiting to hear back on the design details.

 

[Daniel Smith]

I've had a 10.4kW system with 2 power walls on order since July. All inspections and permits were completed within 2 weeks but everything has been on hold waiting for PG&E to schedule a service disconnect so they can upgrade the service panel. The install company says the list of customers waiting for disconnects is getting longer everyday with absolutely no response from PG&E.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Here's the plan for tomorrow. Garage Augmented below. (I did the same with our kitchen only it was 3D, this is just powerpoint.)

I plan to find some cool logo 3D letters. These are exact Tesla colors. Cool Grey 11, then Pure White to match the PWs. Some red will come once complete. I spent over an hour searching for equivalent paint colors. I'm not sure what we ended up with, but it's on the cans. Obsessive?

Back to work!!!

 

[SOULPEDL]

I've had a 10.4kW system with 2 power walls on order since July. All inspections and permits were completed within 2 weeks but everything has been on hold waiting for PG&E to schedule a service disconnect so they can upgrade the service panel. The install company says the list of customers waiting for disconnects is getting longer everyday with absolutely no response from PG&E.

Does the utility need to disconnect? Ya, who'd want to re-route live cables. We could maybe assume Az is slow to catch on compared to Ca because of our fast install date, but clearly Ca is more in need. Eventually, people out here will understand that we have some of the most productive solar regions in the nation. Sad that I keep hearing the haunted lease stories. I try to explain it today over and over.

 

[Az_Rael]

The reviews of Tesla Solar in the area look pretty bad across the board, but the pricing seems to be good (too low?).

I guess I am going to one of the few detractors, but we had terrible experiences with Tesla Energy. From wrong design documents to the wrong panels showing up and being installed on my roof, to a two month delay in PTO because Tesla hadn't submitted the paperwork, it was a mess. We signed the contract in Sept 2017, but didnt have a fully working approved system until May 2018.

After install I noticed performance of one of my arrays was very low. It took 4 months for Tesla to agree to come and look at my system, at which point they figured out it had been hooked up wrong from day one. Each phone call with support involved anywhere from 20 minutes to over an hour on hold, it was very frustrating.


I no longer recommend them to anyone.

 

[KSilver2000]

Here's the plan for tomorrow. Garage Augmented below. (I did the same with our kitchen only it was 3D, this is just powerpoint.)

I plan to find some cool logo 3D letters. These are exact Tesla colors. Cool Grey 11, then Pure White to match the PWs. Some red will come once complete. I spent over an hour searching for equivalent paint colors. I'm not sure what we ended up with, but it's on the cans. Obsessive?

Back to work!!!


View attachment 473182

Curious to know why you chose to have the PWs off the ground.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Curious to know why you chose to have the PWs off the ground.

I've already got conduit along the bottom, so I wanted to keep all the pipes along the bottom as well. I park a large old buick right there and I want to see my batteries. They're happy against a cool interior wall and I'm going to be pretty proud of these babies.

So now when I pitch Tesla, I've got my own showroom. I pull out the app, and make people think in new ways. I really like my new job.