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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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This price action is totally insane Time to thank the shorts again...they bought my Sig, my M3 and as of today more than enough for the new Roadster. Sadly, if I just held onto my 2000 shares in the 20’s (holding 300 now) they would have paid for my water front condo I know there will be a correction but I’m playing with house money...newbies please don’t invest more than you can afford to lose. This was a once in a lifetime experience. Thanks Elon!
Joefee

Don’t get depressed
This is the start of a multi year run
Steep at least for the next 3 to 6 mths , then AMZN like
Take a look a the big ones from history
 
This sounds like the same thing that the Indian government did in 2015. Nothing came of it.

Indian Prime Minister tours Tesla, talks batteries with Elon Musk

Tesla is in a much different place today than 5 years ago. What kind of offer from Brazil would it take to get Elon’s attention? Maybe a $5 billion dollar interest free loan?

According to the news, they're considering eliminating tariffs on imported EVs for starters. That would be massive for Tesla. Brazil has huge protectionist tariffs on vehicle imports.

India faces a chicken-and-egg problem. Tesla can't build a customer base and prove the local market due to how expensive current tariffs would make their vehicles. But they can't commit to a factory without building a customer base and proving the local market.

If Brazil takes down the barriers for imported EVs, Tesla can build a customer base and prove the local market, and then commit to a factory there. It's a major difference. I imagine the agreement with the Brazilian government would be along the lines of, "Tariffs go down, Tesla opens sales in Brazil, and as soon as Tesla hits X sales per quarter, they start construction of a factory."

$920, $925!!!
Did I miss some breaking news?!

Yes. "Breaking: TSLA is undervalued by an order of magnitude, not 1 1/2 orders of magnitude as it was this summer" ;)
 

Nice! But once again Fred got his facts wrong when he made the following claim about the dual and tri-motor versions; "Those two electric trucks will have between 300 and 500 miles of range and be equipped with dual- and tri-motor powertrains."

The only info we have on the range of the two trucks from Tesla and it's "300+" and "500+" (not "300" and "500"). Accuracy matters when reporting. Tesla has never over-estimated the range of any of their vehicles before release so I think it's safe to say their respective ranges will be substantially above 300 and 500 miles. I keep wondering when he will start acting like a competent journalist and think about what he's actually writing.
 
The $1000 mark is clearly in sight. I wonder what it will take to cross the thousand level, I’m sure it will take a few tries. It’s an important milestone, psychologically it would place Tesla in the same category as Amazon and Google—me thinks.

I think we’re already trading in the amazon Apple level (I feel like Wall Street is no longer valuing us as a car company alone), but you’re right about it being a psychological level. The media attention around that number will be huge.
 
If Brazil takes down the barriers for imported EVs, Tesla can build a customer base and prove the local market, and then commit to a factory there. It's a major difference. I imagine the agreement with the Brazilian government would be along the lines of, "Tariffs go down, Tesla opens sales in Brazil, and as soon as Tesla hits X sales per quarter, they start construction of a factory."
;)

I cant imagine that its the right time to invest in Latin America. First of all its politically unstable, if you build a factory, there is no guarantee that a government wont take it over at some point, or that the country wont go bankrupt destabalizing the wider economy, just look at Argentina, Venezuela etc. and Bolsonero in Brazil is basically a fascist.

Secondly, the middle class in LA isn't as wealthy as that in China, and those that are (the upper middle) is pretty small. Tesla is having a tough time scaling in Spain and wages are way higher here than in LA.

And thirdly, Latin America is a tough country to build infrastructure around. There are rain forests and mountains, tribal lands and passes that are controlled by bandits. When I was in my 20s I was planning to drive around Latin America and my Argentinian friends said it would be crazy, way too dangerous. A super charger network would last no time at all there.
 
@InDaClub
Virginia has approved these two “wana 69” and “yo mo fo”

And yet they killed this one:
upload_2020-2-19_13-7-4.jpeg


Are weird tattoo bets still going on?:D

I think it was only for $1k SP a week or so ago. I'm still going to get mine, but it wasn't a part of the bet.


These guys are just now reporting this? It was brought up like two weeks ago.
 
Another factor to keep in mind is that over the last 2 weeks the dollar has strengthened and EUR/USD went down from 1.10 to 1.08 levels, which counts as a significant shift in the FX space.

This means that the TSLA all-time-high measured in Euros is €879, but this was approached today already to within ~2% with the €860.80 peak on Xetra. I.e. the "EUR ATH" has shifted down to $949 in dollars due to currency fluctuations ...

I.e. breaking the $950 level might bring more forced covering from European TSLA shorts.
 
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I did not read bc I avoid Elektrek for previously discussed reasons but I believe its touching one the false matter. It may be correct but the wrong battle.

There should be zero doubt that there is a ton of demand out there globally including pre orders in the 6 digits for the CT but the hard nut to crack is not the demand but the mass production technology.

To produce that thing in masses and with low costs will required a complete new not yet existing production technology including tooling and is a huge project that is IMO underestimated. I have zero doubt that Tesla will manage it but it will come up with challenges and possibly hiccups.

The CT is not just a new model within the existing ones but all fundamentals are very different and with it everything. Implications are huge.

Attention should be on that part as its the critical one for the success.
 
What do you think about this?

Simon Moores on Twitter

"Tesla will use prismatic battery cells for the first time in Model 3 short range for Chinese consumer..."

This is a rumor. Not confirmed and tbh hard to believe. A different form factor would mean a ton of changes and challenges. You don't do that easily and Tesla has worked now since inception actually before, to optimize everything based on cylindric cells achieving a huge advantage with it on different specs.

I don't say its impossible but I have not found a single trustworthy source confirming it and won't find a good reasons for that step too.

Copy and paste is the name of the game now and not reinventing what works good. I may be proven wrong later but thats my take right now.
 
https://electrek.co/2020/02/18/tesl...ron-phosphate-batteries-report/#disqus_thread

What is the informed opinion this comment?:-


My thoughts are the room is not quite enough to make a battery of the same size and it will be heavier, so the resulting car would have a shorter range.... But technically, I think it might work in spite of that compromise... the price should be lower..

So probably no .... but I'm a bit on the fence here....

What do you think about this?

Simon Moores on Twitter

"Tesla will use prismatic battery cells for the first time in Model 3 short range for Chinese consumer..."

I would take comments from Simon Moores as close to confirmation, Benchmark have the most credibility of any research team in the battery & battery materials sector

My view for some time has been that Tesla are likely to take the best current tech from all the leading battery companies to accelerate short term production ramp. In particular CATL seems to be a 2 year deal which I would guess was taking advantage cheap pricing from unused cell capacity in china with Chinese EV cos falling so far short of targets since the subsidy cut last summer. At the same time Tesla are also starting to ramp up its in-house cell plans which I expect to start production this year (for Plaid or Semi) and Tesla will aim for its own cells to account for all new capacity from 2022 or so.

Tesla's software heavy approach to cells/packs/powertrain means it can be very flexible to battery designs.

I think this is potentially interesting news for NanoOne, a $75m listed Canadian cathode powder startup.
Their new cathode powder production process can allow formation of single crystal cathode - one of the key properties of the 1 million mile battery and much of Tesla/Dahn's research papers.
NNO are closest to market with a LFP chemistry so until now I hadn't seen it as the best fit for Tesla. But now their tech seems a potentially interesting fit.
 
I cant imagine that its the right time to invest in Latin America. First of all its politically unstable, if you build a factory, there is no guarantee that a government wont take it over at some point

The same could be said about China re: risking the government taking over or at least sabotaging your operations if you fall out of favour.

Investments are calculated risks.

Secondly, the middle class in LA isn't as wealthy as that in China

The GDP per capita in Mexico is less than Brazil, and Tesla has built out plenty there. Same with China, just on a larger scale.

GDP per capita is a pretty terrible measure. The actual measure of interest is disposable income brackets - how big each bracket is relative to how likely a certain amount of disposable income is to translate to a Tesla sale. The distribution of income is relative to the GINI scale (income (in)equality), while cost of living varies from location to location.

Here's a GINI index map. High income inequality (red) helps Tesla in poor countries but slightly hurts it in wealthy countries. Note Brazil.

2014_Gini_Index_World_Map%2C_income_inequality_distribution_by_country_per_World_Bank.svg


Brazil is the world's sixth-highest population country (212,6M = 64% of the US, 45% more than Russia, 65% more than Mexico), and is the world's 5th largest auto market. They buy tons of cars there, including foreign luxury brands. To be fair, foreign luxury marques generally only sell 10-15k cars per year each, but that's while facing tariffs (though they often reduce the tariffs significantly - although not eliminate - by using knockdown kits, albeit at extra expense). Just in Brazil, let alone in Latin America in general.

Also: gasoline prices are USD $4/gal (€1/l). Not world-leading, but definitely above average. And we all know of Teslas' operating cost advantages. Electricity averages USD $0,18/kWh (€0,17/kWh) for residential. Electricity generation is overwhelmingly hydro, with a small but quickly growing solar+wind fraction.

If Tesla builds the market in Brazil, and produces for the whole of South America there, I think a GF3-sized factory can be well justified.

And thirdly, Latin America is a tough country to build infrastructure around. There are rain forests and mountains, tribal lands and passes that are controlled by bandits.

Nobody expects Tesla to be building a Supercharger network around the Amazon any time soon. Few people in Brazil regularly drive around in the Amazon. That's not where the population lives, and certainly not where the monied population lives.

Population density:

q8ukxakt4hy01.png


An Atlantic-coast Supercharger route, ultimately extending through Argentina into Chile, would be obvious.

upload_2020-2-19_11-59-4.png
 
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I'm disappointed about the Taycan fire, I hope it is a "one off" and Porsche can easily pinpoint the problem...

I see the Taycan as a "all in" effort, with a lot of good engineering, so that effort deserves some reward.

But I would hate to be the poor engineers trying to diagnose the problem.

  • Can they pull logs for the car?
  • Does it have a black box?
In this case the lack of remote diagnostics and over the air software updates is not a concern as the relatively small number of cars can easily be hauled into a service centre for a check/update...

I do think any buyer who was on the fence about a Taycan/Plaid Model S, is at least going to wait until the fault is identified and rectified

So Porsche needs to find the fault ASAP, and they need an accurate diagnosis...

In contrast Tesla has a mature ecosystem with years of experience diagnosing this kind of fault, and the ability to push over the air updates to quickly patch an issue.

So this is yet another area legacy car makers need to get right, the ability to diagnose and correct faults quickly..Unfortunately EV faults will get more traction in the media, and their solution will be compared to Tesla

Agreed with your sentiment, it's way better than another non-Tesla EV, but maybe Porsche shouldn't have been so cocky when they brought the car to market, shooting their mouths constantly about it being better than Tesla.

So yeah, want them to succeed with it, but they need to eat some humble pie too.
 
OK, confession time - I sold 94 shares just before close yesterday for $857.50 - and felt pretty smug about it... On the plus side, they had a cost-basis of $750 and it's my trading account, so I realised $10k in extra cash.

Plus that Friday $875 call I sold on Monday looks a bit dodgy, but there's a lot of water can go under the bridge between now and Friday close, for better or worse o_O

I'll be honest that with $TSLA going up most of the time, the HODL shares are a bit dull, what's another $50k every other day, booooring! Having a play account is fun and I'm enjoying the day-trading, short options experience.

Not an advice.