Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Dwdnjck]

If Tesla could make 200k over the life of the car by using it as a robo-taxi why would they sell it to you for less?[/QUOTT



They won’t.

 

[Unpilot]

Judge shelves Tesla shareholder lawsuit to stop Elon Musk from tweeting

I did not even know this was a thing....and who the hell are these "shareholders"?

 

[Captkerosene]

Not if it means a sizeable percentage of people who won't use Robitaxi cannot afford to buy a Tesla. What am I missing here?

If Tesla can sell ALL their M3 and MY's for a 50K profit then at 1 million cars per year we're looking at a 50B/year profit. Put a twenty multiple on that and we're at a 1T market cap. Of course TSLA will serve the RT market first. But, they'll be growing so fast that it won't take very long to get back to selling to private buyers. (Just think what they could do with 50B/year in terms of Terafactories or energy investments.)

 

[Prunesquallor]

Judge shelves Tesla shareholder lawsuit to stop Elon Musk from tweeting

I did not even know this was a thing....and who the hell are these "shareholders"?

Sméagol must own a share. One is probably all he can still afford.

 

[woodisgood]

Judge shelves Tesla shareholder lawsuit to stop Elon Musk from tweeting

I did not even know this was a thing....and who the hell are these "shareholders"?

Being a shareholder is not synonymous with being a supporter of the company or its mission.

 

[Artful Dodger]

After-action Report: Tue, May 19, 2020: (Full-Day's Trading)

VWAP: $814.46
Volume: 9,654,104
Traded: $7,862,886,704.57 ($7.86 B)

Closing SP / VWAP: 99.19%
(TSLA closed BELOW today's Avg SP)​

FINRA Short/Total Volume = 38.4% (42nd Percentile rank Shorting)
FINRA Volume / Total NASDAQ Vol = 56.4% (57th Percentile rank FINRA Reporting)
FINRA Short Exempt Volume was 1.05% of Short Volume (50th Percentile rank).

Comment: "TSLA intraday gains erased w. slumping macros EOD"

 

[Prunesquallor]

If Tesla can sell ALL their M3 and MY's for a 50K profit then at 1 million cars per year we're looking at a 50B/year profit. Put a twenty multiple on that and we're at a 1T market cap. Of course TSLA will serve the RT market first. But, they'll be growing so fast that it won't take very long to get back to selling to private buyers. (Just think what they could do with 50B/year in terms of Terrafactories or energy investments.)

Roadster probably has limited robotaxi potential. That’s what I plan on buying for personal use on the other side of the robotaxi singularity.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Judge shelves Tesla shareholder lawsuit to stop Elon Musk from tweeting

I did not even know this was a thing....and who the hell are these "shareholders"?

BREAKING ◄SHORTSVILLE TIMES►

1ST AMENDMENT APPLIES TO ELON MUSK.

TSLAQ REGROUPS TO CONSIDER OPTIONS.

 

[HG Wells]

So, is there a perfect European storm brewing?

1.
VW.Status=Status.Fail;
while VW.Status==Status.Fail
{VW.Status=Status.Fail;}
end while;

2. No VAT on EVs
3. Giga Berlin piledriving.

Shouldn't that be written in ADA instead of C ?
I heard VW was requiring all software to be written in ADA.

EDIT: ITS A JOKE

 

[Silentk]

Europe news, rumours of possibly dropping VAT (value added tax) on EVs. Would have massive effect. In Ireland for example:

 

[MC3OZ]

Roadster probably has limited robotaxi potential. That’s what I plan on buying for personal use on the other side of the robotaxi singularity.

People are overlooking a typical Robo-taxi use case IMO...

You own a 5 year old Tesla are a wanting to buy a new Tesla, rather than trade in, you keep the old car and put it out to work.... occasionally when you have visitors it comes in handy..

There are also off-lease cars which are a cheaper source of fleet cars for Tesla.

At the expiry of the lease the owner will lease a new Tesla, and Tesla will add the old car to their fleet.

The peak fleet size of Tesla Robo-taxi's might be something like 60 million, my guess is that 25%-50% of vehicle production might go direct to the fleet in the peak ramp up, but in general there are cheaper ways of building the fleet.

I think a fleet Robotaxi might clear $100 per day, $70 owner approx 24K per year.... $30 Tesla approx 10K per year. (peak)

Or Tesla can own the vehicle and make the whole $34K per year...

I think Elon's 100K valuation comes from numbers like these.

My point is people are overlooking how many privately owned Tesla's will participate in the network during the initial ramp, and to some extent after that. Overtime that $34K per year is likely to drop ...

IMO this mostly probably eventually means fares of around $1 per mile..

So while initial adoption might be lower, some will realise this is a cheap way to travel and more convenient than owning a car, some owners may put their car out to work and simply book a network car for commuting...

I don't think everyone has a good handle on the concept, people are imagining problems that don't exist, and missing opportunities which do exist.

Telsa putting off-lease cars out to work is a great way to lower fleet costs, using private cars is a great way to reward customers, and stage the fleet ramp.

 

[willow_hiller]

Fredtrek article implying that onboard charger on Model 3/Y is already bidirectional and hence V2G ready. Of course the batteries are not ideal for that application, but it would still make for one heck of an OTA update.

Tesla quietly adds bidirectional charging capability for game-changing new features - Electrek

So excited to see where all this V2G/autobidder stuff goes!

Some funny details. I looked up the engineer quoted in that piece, Marco Gaxiola. He's presently the "Staff Fleet Reliability Engineer" at GM's Cruise, but was also the "High Voltage Electric Vehicle Validation Engineer" at Ford from 2017 to 2019.

That, and on his LinkedIn he's a member of the "Tesla Model 3 - loving it, living with it, getting it, wanting it" group.

Fred didn't state when the reverse engineering took place, but if you squint at the corner of the diagram included in the article you can barely make out what looks like "Date: Sunday August 26, 2018" which would make sense since it was during Marco's tenure as an EV engineer at Ford. I'm willing to bet this bi-directional charger exists in every Model 3 ever made.

 

[JRP3]

I'm willing to bet this bi-directional charger exists in every Model 3 ever made.

I'd expect it to have already been discovered if that were the case.

 

[aronth5]

I'd expect it to have already been discovered if that were the case.

Would appear it has been.
Tesla quietly adds bidirectional charging capability for game-changing new features - Electrek
"Marco Gaxiola, an electrical engineer who participated in a Model 3 teardown for a Tesla competitor, reverse engineered the electric car’s charger and found it to be ready for bidirectional charging.
He told Electrek:- What I learned on reverse engineering the Model 3 charger, was that the design is fully bidirectional. This means power can be converted from AC to DC the same way as the previous example, but also power can flow in reverse direction, coming from the battery and ending up on the AC side. This is known as DC to AC inverter, and when this technology is present in a vehicle, it is known as V2G (Vehicle to Grid). Here’s a schematic of the charger that Gaxiola produced as part of the reverse-engineering of the vehicle:"

 

[Artful Dodger]

I'm willing to bet this bi-directional charger exists in every Model 3 ever made.

Yes, and it goes further than that. For some time, all Models S/X have also used the 48 amp charger stack (3 boards) from the Model 3 LR (SR+ has 2 boards for 32 amps).

Recall as well, the 3rd gen. Tesla wall charger supports bi-directional and wi-fi. All the pieces are coming together.

Gen 3 Wall Connector Manual (pdf) | tesla.com › sites › default › files › support › charging

Now juiced waiting for bty day...

Cheers!

 

[willow_hiller]

I'd expect it to have already been discovered if that were the case.

I think it was known to people who took apart the AC to DC inverter in the Model 3, but not relevant until recently when people are speculating about V2G.

Electrek never said it was new in the article, and the date in the corner of the schematic is very blurry but these are the parts that are definitely legible: "Date: Sunday August 2X 20YY". We know YY cannot be 20 because August hasn't happened this year yet. It could be as late as August 2019, but to me the X looked like a 0, a 5, a 6 or an 8, and August 26 2018 happened to fall on a Sunday during the time period when this engineer worked for Ford, so that made the most sense.

 

[AZRI11]

I think it was known to people who took apart the AC to DC inverter in the Model 3, but not relevant until recently when people are speculating about V2G.

Electrek never said it was new in the article, and the date in the corner of the schematic is very blurry but these are the parts that are definitely legible: "Date: Sunday August 2X 20YY". We know YY cannot be 20 because August hasn't happened this year yet. It could be as late as August 2019, but to me the X looked like a 0, a 5, a 6 or an 8, and August 26 2018 happened to fall on a Sunday during the time period when this engineer worked for Ford, so that made the most sense.

Interesting that Sandy Munro couldn't find this capability in his teardowns of model 3 & model Y. He even mentioned that in his Y teardown.

 

[Artful Dodger]

EU Considers Massive Electric Vehicle Support (Tesla Daily) | Rob Maçon

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

Europe news, rumours of possibly dropping VAT (value added tax) on EVs. Would have massive effect. In Ireland for example:

View attachment 543196 View attachment 543195

This was reported here several hours ago.

The added tweet with examples of new Irish prices seems to show that they have a 27-28% VAT. They really have a 23% VAT. I guess percentages are hard.

A $48.000 car would be $39.000 not $37.000
A $59.500 car would be $48.400 not $46.500
A $67.100 car would be $54.600 not $52.700

 

[MC3OZ]

If you want to know more about the SA VPP featured in the YouTube video here is the web-page:-
Tesla Energy Plan | Tesla Australia

Feedback from customers is mostly promising, they think they are saving/making money, but so far no one has received an invoice.

Will update if someone makes an interesting comment.