Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[hobbes]

In Rob Maurer's September 10 podcast there's a screenshot about a meeting with Elon and the Brandenburg Minister of Economics. It says: "In a conversation with Tesla boss Elon Musk last week, he once again reminded of German co-determination and collective agreements. That was certainly not received with euphoria."

I thought a company in Germany could choose to organize under EU law rather than German law and avoid these co-determination requirements. I don't know if Tesla created a German subsidiary or if the US company itself owns and operates the plant. Does someone have insight on why Tesla is stuck with the German requirements?

I am sure that Tesla established a German subsidiary for GF Berlin around the time when they purchased the land. Didn´t find a source when I tried to google. Have no idea whether a company can choose to operate under EU instead of German law, would be new to me. @avoigt ?

 

[JustMe]

Last fall, Tesla registered a construction company in China. Has anything come of that?

 

[Green Pete]

Hey mods, is there a way you guys can indicate that a post has been replied to in the header or something. The frequency with with someone asks a simple question and gets 10 replies all with the same answer seems like it could be fixed just by having a "there has been x replies to this post"

 

[wipster]

385 in Germany and good night!

 

[mad474]

In Rob Maurer's September 10 podcast there's a screenshot about a meeting with Elon and the Brandenburg Minister of Economics. It says: "In a conversation with Tesla boss Elon Musk last week, he once again reminded of German co-determination and collective agreements. That was certainly not received with euphoria."

As a social-democratic politician, you can also have a pipe dream, right?

 

[engle]

This is Reuters take on the export story out of Giga Shanghai: (small quote)

Tesla is planning to export Model 3 vehicles made in China to Asian and European markets, two sources familiar with the matter told Reuters on Friday.

The U.S. automaker, which started delivering Model 3 electric sedans from its Shanghai factory in December, also plans from next year to sell China-made Model 3 vehicles to Japan and Hong Kong, one of the sources said.​

So this is all "sources" right now not official news yet... Asian exports to Japan and Hong Kong make sense to save on shipping. I don't know what the difference would be to parts of Europe? Vehicle itself costs less to produce in China, right?

 

[junas]

This is Reuters take on the export story out of Giga Shanghai: (small quote)

Tesla is planning to export Model 3 vehicles made in China to Asian and European markets, two sources familiar with the matter told Reuters on Friday.

The U.S. automaker, which started delivering Model 3 electric sedans from its Shanghai factory in December, also plans from next year to sell China-made Model 3 vehicles to Japan and Hong Kong, one of the sources said.​

So this is all "sources" right now not official news yet... Asian exports to Japan and Hong Kong make sense to save on shipping. I don't know what the difference would be to parts of Europe? Vehicle itself costs less to produce in China, right?

This is smart move if Tesla is able to sell Fremont production in USA&Canada. Shanghai has definitely lower production costs than Fremont. We also know that China demand is strong, but taking the current FCA deal into account it's probably better deal to sell cars in Europe than in China.

Origin of shipping doesn't matter too much. European import tax is 10% in both cases. Distance from San Francisco to Zeebrugge is 10684 nm, whereas Shanghai to Zeebrugge is 11966 nm. Actually distance could be even shorter (9300nm) if Tesla ships from Shanghai to Italian port (e.g. Taranto). Not saying it's likely, but certainly Tesla knows how to optimize things.

 

[Thekiwi]

This is Reuters take on the export story out of Giga Shanghai: (small quote)

Tesla is planning to export Model 3 vehicles made in China to Asian and European markets, two sources familiar with the matter told Reuters on Friday.

The U.S. automaker, which started delivering Model 3 electric sedans from its Shanghai factory in December, also plans from next year to sell China-made Model 3 vehicles to Japan and Hong Kong, one of the sources said.​

So this is all "sources" right now not official news yet... Asian exports to Japan and Hong Kong make sense to save on shipping. I don't know what the difference would be to parts of Europe? Vehicle itself costs less to produce in China, right?

Between the Bloomberg and Reuters reports they mentioned the major RHD markets: Japan,, Australia/NZ, Hong Kong and UK (if you count that as "Europe")

Perhaps Tesla China is simply taking up responsibility for worldwide supply for these markets, making Fremont more efficient in not having to do it.

 

[CLK350]

385 in Germany and good night!

Good morning - from my AH missive a few hours/ pages ago
Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the 2019-2020 Investors' Roundtable -> a plausible explanation:
Hindenburg H2 blew its Trevor shorts
GM's internal sharks circle their
No balls but it's a she Barra
Barra barfs her Tresor deal
Milton melts
Tesla takes

 

[jeewee3000]

No idea if this was posted before, sorry, but I just got an e-mail from Tesla Belgium about how they have lots of 'immediately deliverable' cars on hand.

End of quarter push has begun. Q3 record deliveries here we come.

 

[Maddin0r]

No idea if this was posted before, sorry, but I just got an e-mail from Tesla Belgium about how they have lots of 'immediately deliverable' cars on hand.

End of quarter push has begun. Q3 record deliveries here we come.

Sidenote:
This was sent in Germany aswell yesterday.

 

[UkNorthampton]

Huh? Polestar 2 is made in China...

MG ZS EV (NOW) and I'm sure many more EVs are planned to come from China to EU.

 

[NooB_cat]

Sidenote:
This was sent in Germany aswell yesterday.

I received one in UK too

 

[JohnnyEnglish]

Agree that this is good and I have great respect for anyone trying to pull all the various threads together and make whole cloth, but:

1. he plays fast and loose with percentages, for instance the 10% increase in cost for a single crystal cathode is 10% of what? [not the $88/kWh he applies it to almost certainly].

2. if the cells are increased to 4070 they are almost 4 times the power so the same cell production rate gives 4x the GWh line capacity. He then suggests 2x or 4x the cell production rate which then would lead to 8x to 16x the line capacity, not the 4x he then uses.

3. Tesla already reportedly use 5% silicon in their anode, an increase to 20% gives most of the advantage of a completely silicon anode. I think it is likely that the cells will have more silicon and hence a greater capacity increase. Panasonic cells may not use the higher silicon content that is consistent with their 20% overall capacity increase.

4. tabless electrodes do not just allow heat to be extracted faster (perhaps with plate cooling), but also cause less heat to be generated due to lower resistance.

5. cell filling with electrolyte must be part of the picture, else why would Tesla buy a specialist in cell filling equipment, they could just have bought on the open market if the cell filling was similar to existing lines.

6. roadster is an opportunity to start with low volume production of the advanced cell to pack line (building cells directly in the pack). A high scrapage rate does not no matter so much in an expensive performance above all sports car.

7. Advanced cell to pack is I think the ultimate goal, this could enable whole battery packs to be made at machine gun rates and in less volume than at present, and at lower cost. Advanced cell to pack is very difficult, verging on the impossible. If they can demo that then my mind really would be blown.

Yes, in terms of total manufactured capacity point (2) would seem to be the important one. A 4x line capacity improvement due to larger cells would dwarf the other improvements.Perhaps a case of not seeing the wood for the trees?

Regarding (4), I am not sure what percentage of the power is currently lost as heat generated during discharge. Presumably tabless will improve efficiency as a result of less heat being generated. Looking forward to Battery Day for some answers on these points.

 

[transpondster]

Does 10% import tax apply to cars from China too? Let's not forget Berlin starts with Y some cheaper M3 would make sense for next year

 

[bhtooefr]

I find that unlikely. I don't think any company makes cars in china that are exported to anywhere outside of Asia.

Ignoring Chinese manufacturers (including Volvo/Polestar due to their Geely ownership), these two examples came to mind immediately:

GM: New 2021 Envision Still Built In China
Honda: Made-in-China car sells well in Canada, Honda says

 

[junas]

Does 10% import tax apply to cars from China too? Let's not forget Berlin starts with Y some cheaper M3 would make sense for next year

10% import tax applies to all non-EEA countries.

If I recall correctly only differences are commercial vans & pickups (higher tax) and motorcycles (lower tax).

 

[transpondster]

10% import tax applies to all non-EEA countries.

If I recall correctly only differences are commercial vans & pickups (higher tax) and motorcycles (lower tax).

Cars from Korea definitely has 0 import tax, so I ask if someone really knows...

10% is standart WTO rate IIRC

 

[mrdoubleb]

One explanation to the rumor of importing Model 3s from China to Europe would be right hand drive models. Once Shanghai takes over deliveries to Japan, Australia and in the future India, Fremont would have to switch over to right hand drive production every quarter only for the sake of a few thousand cars headed to the UK. It would make sense to keep all RHD production under 1 roof, decreasing Fremont manufacturing complexities. UK is no longer an EU country so import taxes on these cars depends on their own trade agreements.

 

[Nuclear Fusion]

Between the Bloomberg and Reuters reports they mentioned the major RHD markets: Japan,, Australia/NZ, Hong Kong and UK (if you count that as "Europe")

Perhaps Tesla China is simply taking up responsibility for worldwide supply for these markets, making Fremont more efficient in not having to do it.

This