Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[EVortex]

I am vexed, irked and disappointed. The most important of those is the last; I’ll get over the first two as soon as the thieves and bandits get run over.

I realized yesterday after the call that we are indeed royally ******. Not that I need to care about any of you or even myself for that matter - we won’t be *here*, but I’d always held onto a teeny piece of hope. That hope just got significantly downsized yesterday. It’s microscopic now.

Tesla is moving so fast, but it’s not fast enough. In and of themselves the delays are meaningless, as a whole and in context they are crushing.

I had thought the stream on conscience would shift quicker. After all there’s gobs of money to be made with the transition and nothing motivates man’s greed more than riches. It appears, though, that hanging onto what they have is a greater motivator than what they could have even if the could have is bigger and better.

Sad cat today. No worries because invariably that’s followed by burn in purgatory cat.

@Krugerrand, I always appreciate your posts and many of us feel the same way you do. I don't think we will ever convince the likes of Gordon Johnson and his oil/legacy and bought-off buddies that Tesla is a good investment. No matter how good the news, how many cars are sold, or how high margins are, they will always be against us and will relentlessly resort to deception because they are afraid of our success.

Because of that, I think we should all stick to our convictions, put the truth out there, squeeze every drop of venom from the naked shorts through frequent splits, and then just HODL. This battle has a long way to go and victory may yet be several years away, but we should never give up. I have felt like cashing-out many times, but eventually I remind myself that this war is more than just SP and riches, it is a true battle for our collective future - I am in it for the LONG haul.

 

[Krugerrand]

On that point, I agree.

EDIT: However, that was not the point I made WRT advertisers. I suggested nothing about talking heads trashing others because they don't pay to play.

You offered that a media person told you they did what they did (the did being essentially bad behavior) because it put food on their table.

That is a bs answer to questionable behavior and unacceptable. That’s what I originally was commenting on.

I mistreat dogs because cat owners pay me to cat sit. Replace mistreat with bash, dogs with Tesla, cat owners with GM/Ford/VW/any OEM and cat sit with talk them up. I bash Tesla because GM pays me to talk them up (and it puts food on my table).

I have a problem with that. You should and even more so the media person who thinks it’s okay to do because it puts food on their table.

Edit: I went back to reread your original post on the subject to remind myself what triggered me and to try and understand your responses since. I was triggered specifically by your use of ‘BS’ commercials. Perhaps you meant something else than what I interpreted.

You then went on to equate that reasoning to those who bash Tesla, which sent me over the edge.

I believe we are on the same page, but I think I’m reading a different paragraph.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Well unless BTC value tanks in which case they are forced to recognize the drop even if they don't sell any BTCs.

Yes, U.S. GAAP accounting rules for digital assests like BTC are one of the strongest reasons why Tesla should continue to do some modest level of trading in the cyptocurrancy (in spite of their long-term intent to accumulate).

For example, BTC was $47,680 on Sunday, 15% below where it is as I write this $54,870.90

If Tesla conducts no sales of BTC in Q2, as of now they would have to report an impairment down to the $47.68K level in spite of the current value being much higher. Correction: the digital asset would have to fall below the purchase price to trigger an impairment. Thanks to those who corrected my error.

It's money: it's meant to circulate. We can do that, and accumulate.

Cheers!

 

[Drezil]

Just wait until TSLA starts realizing FSD revenue. The Short "interpretation" = Tesla's massive ER beat is from software NOT cars... deduct that and they are losing $...

Stop giving them ideas!!

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

For example, BTC was $47,680 on Sunday, 15% below where it is as I write this $54,870.90

If Tesla conducts no sales of BTC in Q2, as of now they would have to report an imparment down to the $47.68K level in spite of the current value being much higher.

What??? I've not seen a single person here or anywhere else suggest they have to do that unless it goes below what they actually paid. Which is supposedly around $33,000.

 

[JoRoMo]

Yes, U.S. GAAP accounting rules for digital assests like BTC are one of the strongest reasons why Tesla should continue to do some modest level of trading in the cyptocurrancy (in spite of their long-term intent to accumulate).

For example, BTC was $47,680 on Sunday, 15% below where it is as I write this $54,870.90

If Tesla conducts no sales of BTC in Q2, as of now they would have to report an imparment down to the $47.68K level in spite of the current value being much higher.

It's money: it's meant to circulate. We can do that, and accumulate.

Cheers!

...but they bougth below that...

 

[Artful Dodger]

What??? I've not seen a single person here or anywhere else suggest they have to do that unless it goes below what they actually paid. Which is supposedly around $33,000.

It's been discussed here in detail. Do you need links?

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

It's been discussed here in detail. Do you need links?

I most certainly do.

 

[Rb48888]

As I had someone I actually respect on CNBS tell me once in response to my complaint about the repeated, stale, BS commercials on all MSM, "Yes, but those commercials put food on my table."

Given that viewpoint, the same can be extended (in my view) to the bought airtime of those intent on bashing Tesla and Elon ad nauseam.

It’s one thing to accept payment to advertise a product for a company and quite another to purposefully trash a competing company because said company doesn’t provide advertising dollars. I know you see the difference.

Hunter S. Thompson said it best:

“The TV business is uglier than most things. It is normally perceived as some kind of cruel and shallow money trench through the heart of the journalism industry, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs, for no good reason.

Which is more or less true. For the most part, they are dirty little animals with huge brains and no pulse.”

 

[juanmedina]

CCIV -4.7%, QS -5.47%. I feel better now .

 

[Curt Renz]

The 10-yr treasury yield shot up today with another spike during the last hour. That drags down the current valuations of long-term growth stocks like Tesla.

 

[st_lopes]

Yes, U.S. GAAP accounting rules for digital assests like BTC are one of the strongest reasons why Tesla should continue to do some modest level of trading in the cyptocurrancy (in spite of their long-term intent to accumulate).

For example, BTC was $47,680 on Sunday, 15% below where it is as I write this $54,870.90

If Tesla conducts no sales of BTC in Q2, as of now they would have to report an impairment down to the $47.68K level in spite of the current value being much higher.

It's money: it's meant to circulate. We can do that, and accumulate.

Cheers!

They would only need to record an impairment if at any point in time the value dropped BELOW their purchase price.

 

[Prunesquallor]

Paging @Prunesquallor for all EU carbon credits related questions.

It’s hard to know without knowing how badly the pool is missing it’s emissions targets. Yes, if Stellantis and Honda are still woefully lacking, Tesla could be getting cash for every car they sell in the EU. More cars sold, more cash.

At SOME point, one would assume the partners would be selling enough of their own ZEVs that they wouldn’t need every Tesla. It appears they are not there.

Also, the rules are getting tougher every year - “phase-in” exemption for dirtiest cars: gone, Supercredits: reduced. In 2024 the targets get dramatically reduced. The goalposts are moving faster than the ball carriers.

I used to try to estimate the credits Tesla could get, but it turned into an exercise in frustration. Too many unknowns, not enough equations.

Edit: what @Drezil said.

 

[Artful Dodger]

...but they bought below that...

That's a good point. I'm no accountant, but here was some accounting treatment discussion in the Tesla 10-K filed Feb 8, 2021: (excerpt from pg 22)

We hold and may acquire digital assets that may be subject to volatile market prices, impairment and unique risks of loss.

Moreover, digital assets are currently considered indefinite-lived intangible assets under applicable accounting rules, meaning that any decrease in their fair values below our carrying values for such assets at any time subsequent to their acquisition will require us to recognize impairment charges, whereas we may make no upward revisions for any market price increases until a sale, which may adversely affect our operating results in any period in which such impairment occurs. Moreover, there is no guarantee that future changes in GAAP will not require us to change the way we account for digital assets held by us.

Paging @ByeByeJohnny You may have missed this discussion on March 13, 2021 since the topic was banned/relegated to another thread by our ever helpful MODS.

So my original point stands. Tesla has to sell BTC to lock in its value, otherwise it inevitably will incur an impairment charge at some future time which is NOT automatically undone. Only a sale revalues the asset after the impairment.

 

[JohnnyEnglish]

The margins will be high on S/X when the get going.

There have been a number of posts in recent months stating that S/X have higher margins than 3/Y. This might have been the case when the 3 was first ramping but it is clear from the Q1 results that the margins on 3/Y are actually higher than those on the old S/X - in a quarter where S/X sales were low the auto margin (excluding credits) increased from 20 to 22%. This is not really surprising as the 3/Y lines are more modern and their volumes are much higher than S/X.

Given Elon's statement that the new S/X are cheaper to produce (as you would expect) my hope is that when they are pushing out 25k S/X per quarter their margins may once again be close to those of 3/Y.

 

[Rarity]

If Tesla conducts no sales of BTC in Q2, as of now they would have to report an impairment down to the $47.68K level in spite of the current value being much higher.

No, I don't think that's the way it works. Let's say Tesla bought all lots at $30k, it would have to fall to below $30k for there to be any need for an impairment.

But let's say they bought some lots at $30k and some at $50k. You would need to take an impairment on the lots at $50k, but you could offset those with some sales of your $30k lots. So long as you have sufficient $30k lots, you could dial in whatever GAAP and non-GAAP earnings you wish.

 

[EVNow]

It’s one thing to accept payment to advertise a product for a company and quite another to purposefully trash a competing company because said company doesn’t provide advertising dollars. I know you see the difference.

Do you know how the mafia works ?

If Tesla wants protection, they need to pay up.

 

[Prunesquallor]

I am vexed, irked and disappointed. The most important of those is the last; I’ll get over the first two as soon as the thieves and bandits get run over.

I realized yesterday after the call that we are indeed royally ******. Not that I need to care about any of you or even myself for that matter - we won’t be *here*, but I’d always held onto a teeny piece of hope. That hope just got significantly downsized yesterday. It’s microscopic now.

Tesla is moving so fast, but it’s not fast enough. In and of themselves the delays are meaningless, as a whole and in context they are crushing.

I had thought the stream on conscience would shift quicker. After all there’s gobs of money to be made with the transition and nothing motivates man’s greed more than riches. It appears, though, that hanging onto what they have is a greater motivator than what they could have even if the could have is bigger and better.

Sad cat today. No worries because invariably that’s followed by burn in purgatory cat.

Exponential growth and virtuous cycles can have amazing leverage. Economics ($$$) are now on the side of clean energy and in two years will be on the side of EVs. (Model 3 best-selling in class. Model Y soon to be best selling, period.) Science and Elon may crack carbon-remediation. Dirty energy will soon have the same public perception as smoking.

Have we waited too long? Maybe. But hope’s not gone yet.

 

[Chunky Jr.]

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yah, but some random person on the internet said Autopilot turned them into a newt. Who are you going to believe?

 

[Curt Renz]

Do you know how the mafia works ?

If Tesla wants protection, they need to pay up.

That neighborhood is still pretty much the same. The c. 1930 (filmed in 1987) speakeasy is now the Houndstooth Saloon, a sports bar just a few blocks south of Wrigley Field.