Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Prunesquallor]

If I understand this correctly - we now know that Elon exercised his options from his performance plan, and he has sold ‘a portion’ of the shares necessary to pay taxes on those options. However we still do not know if Elon sold the remaining balance of shares that the Market had anticipated he would sell to pay the taxes on his options. Should Elon only sell a portion of the shares that WS expected would be available, and if he took an equity line of credit to pay the remaining tax balance then he would be leaving the MMs far fewer shares than they might have anticipated were available to short with. Thus there may be more than just the easy explanation ‘that WS is happy’ that the share price is going up after hours. Until we know the rest of the shares are sold it is just as likely IMO that the Shorts were surprised by the reduced number is sold shares on this Form and now worry that they might not have enough shares to work with…….and they are now ‘crappin in their jockeys’ as Connor McGreggor likes to say. That too would lead to some serious FOMO - by the MMs of all people

 

[RobDickinson]

These sales were monday, there was more selling on tuesday.

 

[Skipdd]

Just when I thought that *one* legacy ICE wasn't corrupted:
Fox Business: Hyundai whistleblower gets $24 million from NHTSA in engine recall case.

Hyundai whistleblower gets $24 million from NHTSA in engine recall case

A former Hyundai engineer has been paid $24 million by NHTSA as part of a whistleblower program that pays for information that leads to civil penalties.

www.foxbusiness.com

Just imagine if this was Tesla...

Our daughter has one of these cars. She took the car into the dealer for something else, and the dealer was supposed to check for recalls as well as check everything else. They pronounced the car fine, and the daughter and her boyfriend left for a long roadtrip (Ca to ID). Car check engine light came on an hour outside of Las Vegas, and car suddenly would not accelerate, and they pulled off on the side of the road. Got towed back to Vegas after many hours. This was July. Car still at dealer with no ETA on fix. NOT GOOD.

 

[OrthoSurg]

A $24,000,000,000 troll. Call Guinness

At least he let us know why the stock would drop 17% over 2 days. Because he filed a SEC form in mid September. I am just sad to see some long Investors/traders lose almost 50% of their portfolios of BPS because on the big crazy drop yesterday. The 2 last weeks made me learn so much on option trading.

 

[Prunesquallor]

Our daughter has one of these cars. She took the car into the dealer for something else, and the dealer was supposed to check for recalls as well as check everything else. They pronounced the car fine, and the daughter and her boyfriend left for a long roadtrip (Ca to ID). Car check engine light came on an hour outside of Las Vegas, and car suddenly would not accelerate, and they pulled off on the side of the road. Got towed back to Vegas after many hours. This was July. Car still at dealer with no ETA on fix. NOT GOOD.

ICE+emission controls=too complicated.

I am entertained by ICE cars at intersections where the engines restart when the accelerator is pressed. This says to me : the only way we can meet emissions limits is to not run the engines.

 

[JRP3]

1. THE TRANSACTIONS REPORTED ON THIS FORM 4 WERE AUTOMATICALLY EFFECTED PURSUANT TO A RULE 10B5-1 TRADING PLAN PREVIOUSLY ADOPTED ON SEPTEMBER 14, 2021

Twitter poll.

Twitter poll was about selling more than initially planned.

 

[JRP3]

Yeah, as only if Elon didn't know the polling audience ahead of time.

Yes Votes - Pronoun NPCS with pink hair. Democratic Socialists, UAW, TSLAQ bots, Michael Burry, and other degenerates with no stake or desire for the mission.
No Votes - Shareholders

I'm a shareholder and voted yes. I don't freak out over short term moves and realized the sale would create a buying opportunity. Didn't move low enough for me to buy but many others obviously jumped in.

 

[3'sterly]

Wondered what the AH step-up was about. I should just abandon the ticker and hang out here.

I saw the ticker jump and immediately came here to confirm. Awesome thread

 

[MP3Mike]

Twitter poll was about selling more than initially planned.

We won't know that until the release tomorrow...

 

[StealthP3D]

Re: Elon's share sales

I have no doubt there is a lot of pent up demand for TSLA shares so Elon's sales didn't (and don't) concern me in the least. The company is worth exactly the same amount whether he owns the 10% he said he would sell or someone else owns them. To my way of thinking this thread has been seriously derailed over what should be nothing more than temporary volatility based mostly on the psychological impact that Elon was selling a larger position than was necessary simply to exercise his options and pay taxes. The actual price impact based upon supply and demand is so temporary it's not even funny. Whatever we lose based on that is returned in coming days/weeks. Like I said, the company is worth whatever it's worth and that is based upon current and future performance, not who owns the shares.

That said, I doubt Elon has sold the entire approx. 17M shares already. But not to worry, Elon is not going to crash the price, he will sell into strength. I'm not going to lose a minute of sleep over this but we will know the selling is likely complete when we see the filings that indicate he divested about 10%. I haven't seen that yet (and I'm not sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for it). Elon is not stupid. Focus on the company's performance, not the sideshow.

On a related note, just an observation that will hopefully help some people deal with volatility in the future. I am shocked at how many investors here use the language "I lost $xxxxxxxx in the last (x) days". I mean, I really don't think people here were selling at the bottom and to use the language indication a loss of money just shows me those people are thinking about investing in an unproductive way. You only lose money when you sell at a loss. You can only claim it as a loss on your taxes if you actually take a loss. Same with a gain. It's unrealized until you sell. The "losses" most people were mentioning were "losses" of unrealized gains. Big deal! Shares are not money, they are fractional ownership.

We know that the exact amount someone will pay us for those shares varies from hour to hour and from day to day. It's not a secret or a big deal unless you are planning to buy or sell in that specific timeframe. But I trust that most people here have protected themselves from being forced to liquidate shares at inopportune times. Therefore it's not only incorrect to view temporary fluctuations in your account value as "losses", it's unproductive to your performance as investors. Someone claiming they "lost money" because the share price went through a period of temporary volatility just exposes them as not knowing what they are doing. Language matters because it indicates how a person thinks about their investments. Yes, everyone has to be a newbie at some point but the more quickly one grows as an investor and learns how to think about their investments more productively, the more profitable they can become over time. Learning to use more productive and more accurate language is the first step to thinking that way.

Sorry if this sounds like a lecture but I only mean it with the best of intentions.

 

[Big Time]

I voted yes also. Good for Elon. He is a great leader.

 

[MXWing]

I'm a shareholder and voted yes. I don't freak out over short term moves and realized the sale would create a buying opportunity. Didn't move low enough for me to buy but many others obviously jumped in.

Except people like Gary Black presented FAR better ways to achieve Elon's objective without harming those who are bullish TSLA.

Imagine if Uncle Leo got margin called unnecessarily?

This maneuver created opportunities or shorts to make money. Even if they cover AH or cover first thing in the AM, money was made by them.
Unnecessarily.

 

[UnknownSoldier]

Elon played us all like a damn fiddle!

Amazing. All right guys, now let's get back on our regularly scheduled rocket launch!

 

[JRP3]

Except people like Gary Black presented FAR better ways to achieve Elon's objective without harming those who are bullish TSLA.

Would not have created the same buying opportunity. I'm less concerned about gamblers such as Uncle Leo.

 

[gabeincal]

At least he let us know why the stock would drop 17% over 2 days. Because he filed a SEC form in mid September. I am just sad to see some long Investors/traders lose almost 50% of their portfolios of BPS because on the big crazy drop yesterday. The 2 last weeks made me learn so much on option trading.

The fact that you’re still with us shows that your risk management was stress tested and stood up to such test. Not everybody’s did. I learned a lot over these past days and will get to continue on the journey also. Good luck…

 

[DragonWatch]

Re: Elon's share sales

I have no doubt there is a lot of pent up demand for TSLA shares so Elon's sales didn't (and don't) concern me in the least. The company is worth exactly the same amount whether he owns the 10% he said he would sell or someone else owns them. To my way of thinking this thread has been seriously derailed over what should be nothing more than temporary volatility based mostly on the psychological impact that Elon was selling a larger position than was necessary simply to exercise his options and pay taxes. The actual price impact based upon supply and demand is so temporary it's not even funny. Whatever we lose based on that is returned in coming days/weeks. Like I said, the company is worth whatever it's worth and that is based upon current and future performance, not who owns the shares.

That said, I doubt Elon has sold the entire approx. 17M shares already. But not to worry, Elon is not going to crash the price, he will sell into strength. I'm not going to lose a minute of sleep over this but we will know the selling is likely complete when we see the filings that indicate he divested about 10%. I haven't seen that yet (and I'm not sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for it). Elon is not stupid. Focus on the company's performance, not the sideshow.

On a related note, just an observation that will hopefully help some people deal with volatility in the future. I am shocked at how many investors here use the language "I lost $xxxxxxxx in the last (x) days". I mean, I really don't think people here were selling at the bottom and to use the language indication a loss of money just shows me those people are thinking about investing in an unproductive way. You only lose money when you sell at a loss. You can only claim it as a loss on your taxes if you actually take a loss. Same with a gain. It's unrealized until you sell. The "losses" most people were mentioning were "losses" of unrealized gains. Big deal! Shares are not money, they are fractional ownership.

We know that the exact amount someone will pay us for those shares varies from hour to hour and from day to day. It's not a secret or a big deal unless you are planning to buy or sell in that specific timeframe. But I trust that most people here have protected themselves from being forced to liquidate shares at inopportune times. Therefore it's not only incorrect to view temporary fluctuations in your account value as "losses", it's unproductive to your performance as investors. Someone claiming they "lost money" because the share price went through a period of temporary volatility just exposes them as not knowing what they are doing. Language matters because it indicates how a person thinks about their investments. Yes, everyone has to be a newbie at some point but the more quickly one grows as an investor and learns how to think about their investments more productively, the more profitable they can become over time. Learning to use more productive and more accurate language is the first step to thinking that way.

Sorry if this sounds like a lecture but I only mean it with the best of intentions.

Forward Observing

Well said, thank you.

 

[Paracelsus]

Elon played us all like a damn fiddle!

Amazing. All right guys, now let's get back on our regularly scheduled rocket launch!

Absolutely! T-29 minutes and counting

 

[WattsHappening]

Our daughter has one of these cars. She took the car into the dealer for something else, and the dealer was supposed to check for recalls as well as check everything else. They pronounced the car fine, and the daughter and her boyfriend left for a long roadtrip (Ca to ID). Car check engine light came on an hour outside of Las Vegas, and car suddenly would not accelerate, and they pulled off on the side of the road. Got towed back to Vegas after many hours. This was July. Car still at dealer with no ETA on fix. NOT GOOD.

Parents should not allow their children to drive non-Teslas. Just sayin...

 

[FutureCTOwner]

The last 6 years of investing in Tesla has allowed me to let this stuff wash over without worry. Sure it's sad when the sp goes down, but as Stealthp3d just said "You only lose money when you sell at a loss." And honestly why would you consider selling based on the sp when the company is just storming from one success to another.

Just talking to my brother and his words were "Gotta love the Tesla roller coaster"

 

[Chunky Jr.]

We won't know that until the release tomorrow...

Rob Maurer (via Twitter) said that SEC is closed tomorrow for Veteran's Day, so it will be Friday