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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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how does Tesla collect all the speech and household data that is more pertinent for the bot?
staged release. You put it in the factory until you feel like you have advanced enough to be more generalizable. 100% of production will be taken up by that for a long while. Then you sell to early adopters, who will act as beta testers for you. By the time you can actually produce enough to go general-release, you've got tons of training data from the early adopters.

IOW -- exactly what they've been doing with cars.
 
If the H100 gains 6x on a single core or even a single cabinet it's immaterial because it doesn't scale to thousands of cores like Dojo. It's that simple you are comparing apples to oranges. Dojo isn't looking at small or medium scale it's looking to be the largest scale compute cluster available.
A100 and H100 obviously scale or else Tesla wouldn't order 16000 A100 if it doesn't scale. The question to ask is will the NN become so big that it will eventually hit hard bottlenecks using Nvidia's hardware where the gains you get from DOJO is like 100x or 1000x vs 4-5x? The H100 has many interconnects that are also very high speed, more so than last generation.
 
I think going from very first actual physical prototype at all to an unaided bipedal humaniform robot walking in just 6 months is somewhat impressive.


THAT said- AP has been impressive for a lot of years now and the car still doesn't actually self-drive. Remains to be seen what the real time is from where they are now to actual mass production.
I think they'll probably deploy the first generation doing mundane chores around the factories that do not require too much more than they have done. Then they'll just iterate from there.
After all even watering plants is useful, as is cleaning toilets.

Depending on how well it goes they'll move to commercial deployments with gradually increasing complexity. Is that not what they've done with autopilot?

Well I remember autopilot launch in early 2015. It was amazing then to do lane keeping!

So it will be with Optimus. Dibs on the name Robbie for mine. I have always been an Asimov fan.
 
This discrete set of training is then sold as a “skill” (like an app). Maybe it costs a ton if the training is very good. And maybe it only costs $3 if I have only taught them how fry an egg one way. ...

What If you had an excellent simulator available with Unreal graphics and nVidia Physics?
Thousands of models available (food, liquids, tools,...) to import into your scenery were you can train TeslaBot to perform certain tasks?

Wasn't there a slide of the presentation dedicated to the "soft TeslaBot model" in simulation that has already been retrained to better behave like in real world?
 
staged release. You put it in the factory until you feel like you have advanced enough to be more generalizable. 100% of production will be taken up by that for a long while. Then you sell to early adopters, who will act as beta testers for you. By the time you can actually produce enough to go general-release, you've got tons of training data from the early adopters.

IOW -- exactly what they've been doing with cars.

Absolutely - to me that is Part 1. The factory environment will yield you a bot which can get around, interact with humans, follow commands, and do specialized factory work that it is trained to do. Phase 1, from an investment or human impact standpoint, can be analogized to the gigapress. It’s going to help Tesla accelerate the mission and increase margins, etc. It’s similar to how Apple introduced a phone that had some basic apps that could do a lot of neat stuff.

Part 2 is where the potential is truly unlocked and the bot expands the economy limitlessly. This is where you get your crazy valuations if you are thinking from a pocketbook perspective, or where life as we know it transforms because of the specialized tasks the bot conquers, from hospitality to elder care to construction to yard work. We think of them as “boring or repetitive or dangerous” jobs but that does not at all mean they are easy to train. Whether a bunch of early adopters (who like the idea of having a bot than can do some very basic tasks) will be able to offer enough training data/experiences such that the bot becomes competent at say, picking up a cat, is an open question. My guess, just based on what we have been witnessing with FSD, is no. It takes a LOT of iterations for the NNs to get good at something. You can probably accelerate the timelines quite a bit if you let people decide exactly what they want the bot to get good at and somehow facilitate the training process.

Example…I’m not going to get very far by buying a bot and trying to teach it how to wash my car. I can show it my car, I can show it all my towels and buckets, and hoses, I can let it watch me do it. And I can offer verbal feedback to the bot when I hand it a towel and it does the wrong thing with it. That’s about it. This won’t get the bot very far in terms of competently being able to wash a car. It might if thousands of people are doing the same thing over many months or years, but the truth is only a small fraction of early adopters might be giving the bot any experience with washing a car. Contrast with the number of drivers making a right turn across Tesla’s entire fleet.

Now on the other hand, let’s say I own a hand car-washing business. I buy 10 bots, and let them observe or even try to work on the vast array of cars that come through my business daily and the things that are used in the process (soaps, towels, vacuums etc). In one day 10 bots might see and experience more than they would in a decade spread across thousands of homes. They would very quickly develop expertise in washing the cars and using the products as dictated by my business. Once complete to a satisfactory degree under my watch as the “trainer,” this skill stack would then become available to any bot owner for a price, and would also continually improve in a wider deployment. Of course, just like the development of smartphone apps, there will be competition, especially in the skillsets that will be most in demand.

I see a future in which, for my bot, I buy Kruggerand’s CatCare stack ($500), America’s Test Kitchen’s filet mignon stack ($50), Chemical Guy’s CarWash stack ($300), LG’s laundry stack ($1000), etc…
 
Most people are very opinionated because the think they are smart, when in fact they aren't. Before social media we weren't constantly reminded of this fact. Now I'm so disgusted by my fellow humans that I want to unplug and go live by myself on my own mountain more than ever before. Hopefully TSLA will allow me to do that soon. I might even get a cat....

Self-awareness is a virtue and a success indicator. Those same overconfident people also like to blame "the system" for their failures. They are very confident that someone else is responsible for their woes. The Dunning-Kruger effect is very real.

1664646095218.png
 
But who?

There are companies that can compete in software, and those who can compete in manufacturing (I'm being generous here but bear with me), but what company can compete in both areas? Legacy auto can't, they can barely program a system that lets you use Carplay. Apple, Google etc. can do the software/AI bits but don't know the first thing about manufacturing.


This. I've always joked that it's not that I think I'm so smart, it's just that most other people just seem so friggin dumb.
To me, it looks like the bot isn't going to be that hard to manufacture at scale. It's the real world AI that turns a bunch of steel into a productive asset. If the tech co's can figure out AI they can "probably" outsource the manufacturing to the same people that make the phones.
 
What If you had an excellent simulator available with Unreal graphics and nVidia Physics?
Thousands of models available (food, liquids, tools,...) to import into your scenery were you can train TeslaBot to perform certain tasks?

Wasn't there a slide of the presentation dedicated to the "soft TeslaBot model" in simulation that has already been retrained to better behave like in real world?

Yeah obviously simulation can play a very large role. It‘s just given the nearly infinite possibilities of what the bot needs to be able to recognize and do, is there a way to accelerate the training of useful skills by involving an eager worldwide community of developers? Can Tesla provide the right tools (one of which is simulation) to facilitate this while maintaining control and safety?

Our smartphones would only be so great if we were depending on Apple or Google to provide all the different kinds of apps we can dream.

With that, I’ll end the spit-balling on the bot. My perspective on this isn’t “here‘s my neat idea” but rather this is where I suspect things will logically go for the bot to ultimately realize its full potential.
 
OK, now we got a poll:

Who here would pay 25K USD right now for an Optimus that does nothing but house clean.

Sweep floors, dust, wash laundry, load and run the dishwasher.

Forward Observing

i apologize if this has been discussed.

My wife and I would buy an Optimus and pay $25k plus or minus and it would be a welcome addition to our home. This character would pay for itself almost immediately ~ we are now seniors; sadly, not high school seniors. Can Xena 2.0 (Optimus) drive Xena 1.0 (Model X) with FSD Beta, clean the house & windows, prepare meals, and when the time comes help us when we have fallen ~ how about help in and out of shower/toilet? Okay, you get the idea. Damn, think of Optimus single handedly lifting and installing our new deck beams!

Having managed my fathers last three years including Alzheimer’s in our home; Optimus would have been a miracle worker.

Our son-in-laws mother is in an assisted living facility, new just before COVID. She spent the COVID time locked up, now days replaced cook team is not much better than fast food or forget special food needs. Hired help was and is still poorly paid with high turn over. Some seniors are heavy, not necessarily grand piano size, but a bit more than I can assist. Optimus would pay for itself in six months cash!

Lastly, Sandy’s yoga teacher’s mother recently fell, her watch did not pick up that she fell and laid injured exposed to the elements over seven hours before anyone responded. Eighty something, not the new eighties something. Optimus could have responded while making bed check rounds at a minimum.

Pulling weeds would be a bonus. I am concerned about Optimus walking up or down the driveway since it is 35% slope. We pay extra to have trash and recycle picked up from our parking area since my left knee is no longer able to run the hundred yard dash or two mile run under eleven minutes.

Optimus would allow us to live out our remaining thirty years here at the brick home we remodeled. Think of the cost savings of cramped quarters assisted living, think about the help with our loved one suffering from Alzheimer’s, think about the ease of mind when mom chooses to live her years out in the family home. No need for in home nursing assistance day to day either.

Had me at pulling weeds.

Cheers
 
To me, it looks like the bot isn't going to be that hard to manufacture at scale. It's the real world AI that turns a bunch of steel into a productive asset. If the tech co's can figure out AI they can "probably" outsource the manufacturing to the same people that make the phones.
Maybe, but does Foxcon know how to build actuators etc.?
 
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A few errors/omissions in that comparison of Optimus and Boston Dynamics' Atlas:

1) Atlas weighs 89 kg, not "over 150 kg," according to the Boston Dynamics website. (This gross error by the tweet author makes me skeptical of all his numbers.)

2) Atlas's joints are powered by hydraulics, not electric actuators like in Optimus.

3) Atlas doesn't have hands.

atlas-dynamic.jpg


Nevertheless, the tweet author is correct that Atlas and Optimus are designed for different purposes. Atlas is "a research platform designed to... demonstrate human-level agility." Optimus is designed for mass production to do useful work.
 
To me, it looks like the bot isn't going to be that hard to manufacture at scale. It's the real world AI that turns a bunch of steel into a productive asset. If the tech co's can figure out AI they can "probably" outsource the manufacturing to the same people that make the phones.
Bots build themselves, repair as well. (Need 2 for that… in every home.) TSLA will do quite well.

Big takeaway is that the car computer is running the bot - so soon! That was about 10 yrs of Tech strapped on practically overnight. Total heart and brain transplant just occurred.

I’m sure there’s another 50 tries at the watering task that went wrong before getting it. So? And the Factory example was slow… again, so??? They exceeded my expectations. It did not fall over on stage. Flawless yet daring. No sandbagging at all.

So… when do we get the q3 deliveries ?(followed be the pump n dump SP, with about 3 days to analyze them). By Wed should be good. Remembering the 330 max pain this week. Lots of variables out there, but the Bot show was solid. Bumble C was cute. Had character with that slight wobble. This one is really special.

It’s really classy they had a Female present and what a great job they did! Very effective to attract geeks to hire from all areas.

No change in investment here, solid ground.
 
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This is the result of uber bulls who spew nonsense and also know nothing about the subject. Elon of course doesn't help when he take a dig at other companies when his own tech is not yet finished. These behaviors flame the hate.
Hate comes from within. Blaming others for one’s own inner hate is like saying it’s the victim’s fault they got robbed because they had the audacity to walk down the street after dark. People need to be responsible for themselves, wholly.
 
A few errors/omissions in that comparison of Optimus and Boston Dynamics' Atlas:

1) Atlas weighs 89 kg, not "over 150 kg," according to the Boston Dynamics website. (This gross error by the tweet author makes me skeptical of all his numbers.)

2) Atlas's joints are powered by hydraulics, not electric actuators like in Optimus.

3) Atlas doesn't have hands.

atlas-dynamic.jpg


Nevertheless, the tweet author is correct that Atlas and Optimus are designed for different purposes. Atlas is "a research platform designed to... demonstrate human-level agility." Optimus is designed for mass production to do useful work.
This is like how people compare Porche to Tesla and constantly talk of Tesla killers from things that dont compete in the same arenas. The model S was always a means to an ends....to get to the model 3+Y. BD's systems were never built with the idea of mass market and distinctly not towards replacing human factory workers. BD's robots were built at whatever means necessary to accomplish their specific task for the sole purpose of research. I swear people comparing things that "look" the same but having zero context (not saying you, just in general) are going to give me an aneurysm.
 
2 other things really stood out to me that hasn't really been brought up in this thread yet.
  1. Fail fast philosophy: They ran into an issue with errors of the DOJO tile and pinpointed it to an issue with VRM (Voltage regulator module), zero'd in on the issue and made their own chip to solve the problem :oops:
  2. Structure of Mass production: Talks about resonating frequency of the materials ..."That's ok if you make 1 robot, we want to make thousands, maybe even millions. We haven't got the luxury of making from carbon fiber and titanium, we want to make them from plastic things not quite as stiff"
These once again show the speed in which Tesla is progressing (much like SpaceX landing rockets) and the scale at which they hope to grow to (much like gigacasting).