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In short, the mission isn't a sprint it is a marathon. The mission is better served by making a dedicated robotaxi vehicle as opposed to buying back used vehicles.
And the reality is that it is likely that FSD could be ready years before robotaxi as a service is.

Anybody that believes robotaxi as a service is widely available in the next 2 years has rose coloured glasses on. FSD as an ADAS - maybe/probably.
 
Has anyone seen any in-depth analysis on the likelihood that Panasonic 2170 or Tesla 4680 Models of Y and 3 will still be eligible for the full tax credit after the battery materials requirements rules come out in March? I haven’t, and it seems like a really big opportunity if they will, since in all likelihood, basically, no other vehicles would qualify for $7500 which will give Tesla at least another $3750 price advantage vs other EVs.

From what I have seen, most people assume Tesla will lose $3750 of the credit in March. I either have a huge blindspot or this doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I think the most likely outcome is that they keep the $7500 credit. Let me explain.

The delayed Treasury guidance details requirements that make $3,750 contingent on at least 40% of the value of the critical minerals in the battery having been extracted or processed in the United States or a country with a U.S. free-trade agreement, or recycled in North America.

The other $3,750 requires that at least 50% of battery components were manufactured or assembled in North America. Both percentages rise annually. Many countries are pressing Washington for a broad definition of a free-trade deal and other foreign automakers and countries want other interpretations.

GM says they can meet the 40% but not the battery components requirements so they would only be eligible for $3750.

The battery component requirement should be in the bag for Tesla given the batteries and packs are made in the US.

As a starting point on the 40% requirement, Elon said they expect to be fully compliant with the IRA Tax credit.

Here’s a transcript from the Q3 2022 earnings call.

“Thank you very much. And let's go first to the shareholder questions. The first shareholder question is given the stringent battery content and assembly requirements for consumer tax credit eligibility under the Inflation Reduction Act, can you speak to Tesla's ability to meet those thresholds in each of 2023, 2024, and 2025 through your existing and planned supply chain?”

Elon Musk -- Chief Executive Officer and Product Architect Well, yeah, I mean I think just at a high level, I'd say, we do expect to fully meet the IRA's requirements. Do you want to add?

Zachary Kirkhorn -- Chief Financial Officer Yeah. We view the passing of the Inflation Reduction Act, there's a significant boost toward accelerating automation, while also scaling the battery supply chain at large in the United States. We expect Treasury to publish detailed guidance by the end of the year. Until such time, it's difficult to fully determine the eligibility criteria, but we believe Tesla is very well-positioned to capture a significant share of that for solar storage and also electric vehicles.

Tesla has more insight into their supply chain than random internet articles. They would have interpreted it narrowly to play things safe. Also, if anything, a delay of 3 months in the rules going into effect allows for some Elon time breathing room for Tesla to get compliant with even their strictest interpretation of the law.

The batteries in the Model Y and 3 have very little cobalt in them relative to most other EV batteries. They can get the nickel from Australia and Canada which would make up most of the battery. Lithium is a very small percentage of the battery but could also probably be from a source that qualifies under the credit rules. I believe other companies like VW get a lot of Nickel from Indonesia.

Tesla is also the largest customer for battery materials, is the most flexible in terms of making rapid change, and has the ability to pay the highest price. So inevitably tesla will get first pick for their raw materials supply chain.

Tesla could also theoretically shift around what materials are used in what batteries for what vehicles if they needed to. They could put batteries with materials from countries that don’t qualify in their S, X, and Model Y performance vehicles since they are ineligible for the credits anyway. They could also move 2170 cells around to Powerwalls, old Megapack, Semi, vins reserved for leased vehicles etc. They can also ship all modele of 3s and Ys with batteries that have unqualifying materials to other countries besides the US (like Canada).

In the event that they still couldn't qualify on every vehcie, Y is igher margin and higher volume for them than the 3 so it seems most likely they would prioritize making sure it gets the full credits over any other vehicles they make.

So basically, my analysis is that if tesla is not eligible for the battery materials requirement once it goes into effect, then likely literally no vehicles would be eligible by any maker for the full credit.

Is there something I’m missing on this? Has anyone seen anything else to confirm my thoughts? It seems likely that if anything the treasury will save to pressure from other OEMs and make it easier to qualify vs find a way to make Tesla not qualify. Why would they let everyone in the back door with leasing and then create really strange rules that go against the plain language of the bill?
Loving your username. However, your quality post tells me you are more non-fungible.
 
Loving your username. However, your quality post tells me you are more non-fungible.
Thanks. I'm hoping that if I'm wrong in my thinking then someone will set me straight. I don't really care if I'm proven right or wrong, I just want more clarity on this. I feel like I slept through class or something in the way that I see everyone on Twitter assume Tesla is going to lose the credit and I have no idea what makes them think that.

Tesla says on their website:

"On January 1, 2023, the Inflation Reduction Act of 2022 qualified certain electric vehicles (EVs) for a tax credit of up to $7,500.

Note: This credit amount applies to deliveries now and may change during March 2023, at which point credit amounts may be reduced."

It doesn't say it will. This is them covering their asses with legalize and maybe trying to give people the pressure to lock orders in.

If almost everyone is assuming Tesla will lose the credit and is modeling this into their expectations then at least I think it's worth exploring further what the actual odds of that happening really are. Tesla drastically cut prices to make sure they qualify for the credit. Why do people assume they wouldn't do something to make certain they keep it? Having the full credit for only 3 months is effective de minimus when it is available for 10 years. Why can GM say they are in a good place to qualify for the battery materials requirement and not Tesla? Mary really did lead I guess. Last year, even Stellantis said they are in negotiations with suppliers to source materials that will qualify for the credit. My bias would be to trust that Elon wasn't making things completely up when he said they do expect to fully meet the requirements. Or at least I should trust but verify.

I understand the government might come up with some wacky rules to try and make Tesla not qualify but that is not my default assumption.
 
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We often have need to reference back to what was said on previous earnings calls, etc when performing our analysis. This tool may come in handy in the future when we find the need to do so.


 
Note: This credit amount applies to deliveries now and may change during March 2023, at which point credit amounts may be reduced."

It doesn't it will. This is them covering their asses with legalize and maybe trying to give people the pressure to lock orders in.
Considering the way they dropped the qualifications at the very last minute Tesla is right to be cautious with promises.

Lots it’s a little FOMO fanning. “Buy it now, you’ll never see these prices again”.
 
We often have need to reference back to what was said on previous earnings calls, etc when performing our analysis. This tool may come in handy in the future when we find the need to do so.



I don’t mean to pan anyone’s work, but I think this needs a bit more work before it’s recommended around. This reply is all over the place.

It doesn’t seem to get the context what year which comments are from.

1674453785034.png


1674454218152.png
 
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Considering the way they dropped the qualifications at the very last minute Tesla is right to be cautious with promises.

Lots it’s a little FOMO fanning. “Buy it now, you’ll never see these prices again”.
I think it's completely logical for them to say until March. They don't know what they don't know and don't want to be liable, but that is different than assuming that they won't be eligible. I've also noticed that people believe that if they take delivery in March that they assume they are guaranteed full tax credit. That is not actually what it says from my reading. It says the guidance by the Treasury is coming out in March. From what I've seen, there was no specific date in March ever given and the way it is written, as soon as that guidance is given then the rules go into effect. It is not that it goes into effect on April 1st.
 
Has anyone seen any in-depth analysis on the likelihood that Panasonic 2170 or Tesla 4680 Models of Y and 3 will still be eligible for the full tax credit after the battery materials requirements rules come out in March?

How would you propose to do such an analysis before Treasury announces its new rules for battery materials sourcing? Unless your analysis is composed of a series of "if-then" statements.
 
How would you propose to do such an analysis before Treasury announces its new rules for battery materials sourcing? Unless your analysis is composed of a series of "if-then" statements.
Both GM and Tesla said in late 2022 that they believe they will qualify for the battery materials sourcing requirements. Stellantis was negotiating back in late 2022 with suppliers to try and become eligible for the materials requirements. There has to be a way to do it where these companies can make educated guesses. It's unlikely they would make claims like this if they didn't have a rational basis for believing them. The main requirements of the law are already public and it is likely that the companies had some involvement in it as it was being written or at least have a thorough understanding of the intent of the law.

They can also interpret the law in the narrowest ways possible and still see if they would theoretically qualify.


Look at this article and see what kinds of things Auto companies expect to have clarified by the rules.


For example, in November "Ford requested that the government clarify the meaning of the term ‘processing,’” Ford wrote in comments that it submitted Thursday. “A clear definition will be fundamental for compliance.”

"The automakers also want to know exactly how far back in the supply chain they’re responsible for sourcing correctly."
 
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I don’t mean to pan anyone’s work, but I think this needs a bit more work before it’s recommended around. This reply is all over the place.

It doesn’t seem to get the context what year which comments are from.

View attachment 898708

View attachment 898711

The StockGPT usage instructions are to reference the quarter and year that your question is applicable to, in your question, so StockGPT knows which transcript to search. But, yeah, it's not nearly as sophisticated as ChatGPT.
 
Based on Vanda Research, Retail has been buying up more TSLA than NVDA, NFLX, META, AMAZN, GOOG, AMD, AAPL, and MSFT combined in the past 6 months. I did my best to highlight since the beginning of this year on the chart using my black box to note how retail buying has been either the same or greater than the retail tech basket since the beginning of this year:

1674456077579.png


Here are the stock performances of the listed stocks, in order of best performing to worst performing:

NVDA: 22.07% YTD
NFLX: 16.15% YTD
META: 15.81% YTD
AMZN: 15.77% YTD
GOOG: 11.89% YTD
TSLA: 8.31% YTD
AMD: 8.18% YTD
AAPL: 6.11% YTD
MSFT: 0.17% YTD

And here is the % difference between the 52-week high and 52-week low of the listed stocks, in the same order as listed above:

NVDA: -62.64%
NFLX: -64.5%
META: -73.14%
AMZN: -52.33%
GOOG: -45.13%
TSLA: -73.5%
AMD: -58.96%
AAPL: -30.87%
MSFT: -32.45%

So of the stocks Vanda Research compared, Tesla dropped the farthest from 52-week high to 52-week low, and even with retail buying so heavily to consistently match or exceed the buying of all the other listed stocks combined since the beginning of the year, TSLA's performance YTD was only subpar compared to the rest of the listed stocks.

I suspect most of the reason for this difference is due to the heavy options market trading on TSLA, but options trading volumes and it's impact on a stock is not my specialty, maybe it's possible that @generalenthu has some insight into this.
 
It's unlikely they would make claims like this if they didn't have a rational basis for believing them.

Well, in the case of GM, they claimed they'll surpass Tesla in EV production by 2025, so that's not rational. As for Stellantis, they just declared bankrupcy in China, and shuttered a factory in Ohio, so maybe not making rational public claims?

Bottom line is unless Treasury is committing some major ethical violations by tipping off only certain favorite industry players, then those claims are idle boasts rather than serious projections.

Meanwhile, Tesla is securing nickel supply in Indonesia and building a Lithium hydroxide refinery in Corpus Christie, TX. ;)

Cheers!
 
WSJ: After a brutal year for tech stocks, retail investors have lost their appetite for buying the dip, with one notable exception. They’re still scooping up shares of $TSLA; Retail’s spent more money on $TSLA in the past 6 months than in the 5 years prior, Vanda found.

You guys are NOT being subtle.


$TSLA daily net purchases by retail investors (unsmoothed data).

 
Very cool. I hope there's a mechanism that locks the adapter to the cable when it's removed from the station.
Magic is in the name so undoubtedly. I expect that it will know whether a Tesla or non-Tesla has pulled up and provide the correct fitting automatically. Alternatively, you can only pull out CCS if already requested on the app. Do non-Tesla European owners need to punch in the SC number in the app?
 
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