Beating the Alfa on an auto-x is amazing. Every car reviewer has said that the Alfa (with its track tires standard) out handles all its competitors and it certainly has track times to back that up. Note that the Alfa's stock tires are serious track tires, with a wear rating of 60 or so. That the Model 3 (with its stock Michelin PS4S tires which are nice tires, but definitely not track tires) beat the Alfa is just amazing.
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Top Gear Model 3 Performance Preview!
- Thread starter WilliamG
- Start date
Also, doesn't look like it was in 'Track Mode' either, that would have kept the temperatures down, and reduced the power limiting.
RobDickinson
Active Member
It could be bad editing but the speed is also shown and its the same speed as when the AMG passes the TM3.
Looking at the graph above it could be down 10% power or so which would have meant a win to the tesla I think.
BTW the AMG is £75,000, the Alfa is £63,000 and the tesla is £48,000, an unfair comparison right from the start really.
RobDickinson
Active Member
The Tesla, for all that it smokes some serious track cars on the track, is not a track car, and has a top speed that guarantees that in a long race, lots of other cars will beat it. The Tesla is a family sedan so it's no shame that cars designed to go 150 mph will eventually catch up to it. The big surprise is that Top Gear did not do a hatchet job on it the way they did on the Roadster, pushing it as though it were out of juice when it wasn't, and when Musk sued them, Top Gear claimed in court that their show is entertainment and does not provide real information.
RobDickinson
Active Member
Honstly its 2019 if you are a motoring journalist and not wanting to deal (fairly) with EVs you might as well retire.
Or get rich writing slander that appeals to the kind of person who enjoys waking up the whole neighborhood driving a car without a muffler, and takes pleasure in burning as much gasoline as he possibly can before it's all gone. The guys who think they're not men unless they drive a loud stinky car. Journalism is not about information. Journalism is about creating entertainment that delivers readers/viewers to advertisers. I actually pity the people who think there's any actual information on television.
I couldn't help but wonder how you 'smoked' them?
I suspect that this term originates from leaving another car in a cloud of 'smoke'. Tire smoke or exhaust smoke. My M3 will barely make its wheels chirp, much less spin and smoke them. They just hook up and go! And if you are getting smoke from an exhaust on your Tesla you have even bigger problem.
I suspect that your car is fine, you simply need to update your metaphors for trouncing other vehicles now that you are a Tesla driver. "Leave them in the dust" should work to start.
And yes, this was all 'tongue in cheek', I knew what the OP meant...
A good amount. At that SOC you are down almost 15% of power I think. (in that ballpark)
boriszima
Member
ken830
Model S 85, Model 3 Performance, Model X LongRange
I'm annoyed whenever reviewers say something like, "electric cars are really quick off the line, but above xxx mph/kph, the gasoline cars will catch up and overtake," without any acknowledgment that it has nothing to do with being electric- or gasoline-powered. The statement only holds true in the general case because most electric cars are single-speed. Imagine a gasoline car with so much torque that it only has a single speed and can put out performance numbers similar to a Tesla Performance (S/X/3) vehicle.... the praises would be piling on and everyone would highlight the craziness of a car that can have so much low-end and top-end performance with a single gear ratio....
Tesla and electric cars in general aren't purposely designed for performance, so the trade-offs needed to go from a single-speed to a multi-speed gearbox isn't worth it... and I agree with that for anything that isn't a dedicated drag car. Even the original Roadster had a 2-speed that they eventually had to replace with a single-speed. It's just not worth doing.
Tesla and electric cars in general aren't purposely designed for performance, so the trade-offs needed to go from a single-speed to a multi-speed gearbox isn't worth it... and I agree with that for anything that isn't a dedicated drag car. Even the original Roadster had a 2-speed that they eventually had to replace with a single-speed. It's just not worth doing.
RobDickinson
Active Member
tbh the complexity and weight of a multi gear gearbox is unnecessary for pretty much every EV driver outside of things like rimac etc.
My 3 will rarely go above 120km/hr
My 3 will rarely go above 120km/hr
I don't believe a (or two) gearbox(s) would help in any case. Acceleration/Speed is determined by the power of the engine, not the Torque.
The power the car is able to deliver is limited by the KW(=Bhp) delivered by the drive-train, not the multiplication of the torque by the gearbox.
If your gearing can generate maximum torque your traction through the wheels can provide, at 0rpm, and at the same time can rev to your top speed (where KW output meets KW resistance), then what is the point of the gears?
Say you had a 2 speed
1st gear the same as now (because don't need more torque at 0rpm)
2nd gear starting at 100mph or something to take the car back up the torque/bhp curve.
You might get % more efficiency by the motor not spinning quite so fast, taking it back up the power graph, BUT you will loose all of that across the whole range again, because you'd be taking a % hit in transmission losses by adding 2 gearboxes, clutches, syncro etc. (Don't suggest a 2speed autobox!)
Not to mention the complexity, of getting the gear changes synchronized between the gearboxes!
Much easier to just add a bigger battery/motor/controller.
What I say is that most muscle cars will eventually catch up with a Tesla because the Teslas are not race cars or track cars, they are family cars intended for daily use on roads where the speeds at which a muscle car would catch up are illegal and reckless.
RobDickinson
Active Member
Despite rumor an electric motor isnt perfectly efficient at all RPMs and doesnt produce max torque all the time.
They are currently geared with a single gear for the whole rev range as a best cover all solution because you can. Its not optimal for every speed.
True on all of the above, except the insurance rates.
C63s and ///M3 are both about 50% cheaper to insurance than Tesla Model 3 Performance.
Many theories as to why, but that's how it is.
Sadly.
That.
Look at dyno graph in post #20, and observe the HP declining north of 5000 RPM for all SOC levels.
Granted, this covers RWD TM3, so the absolute #s will be different for TM3P, but the same principle holds. There is a drop in both torque and HP an higher RPMs.
More info here: Mountain Pass Performance Tests Tesla Model 3 Power At Different States Of Charge (#CleanTechnica Exclusive) | CleanTechnica
a
Not sure I believe this. I just traded in a 2018 Audi S5 Prestige with almost all options for a 2019 Model 3 Performance with every box ticked, and my insurance went down considerably. From $900 to roughly $680 every six months. USAA insurance carrier, perfect record, married, excellent credit.
I find it a tad hard to believe the M3 or (especially) C63 AMG would be less expensive to insure than my S5 was, but I guess I could be wrong.
chickensworth
Member
The P3D is a direct competitor to these ///M, AMG and QV cars... all of them are family saloon cars that you can take to the track. It’s awesome that Tesla has the chops to compete and even beat cars with a more celebrated history in Motorsport and racing on their first foray into this segment. But to try to convince yourself that it was an unfair comparison from the start ... family saloon vs track monster... is just disingenuous.
A criticism of the P3D is that it isn’t special enough in terms of go-fast bits. Imagine what the P3D could do if it actually had a well sorted suspension setup and wasn’t running on frisbees. New BMW m3 is coming with awd... hopefully Tesla can update our cars to maintain the edge.
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