Virginia Hearing, 4/25 -- Represent!

[Hodginator]

I was planning to comment with on the following article but it appears I have to setup an account and pay them to comment. @bonnie, I see that you already made a great comment back.

http://pilotonline.com/opinion/colu...cle_19088457-c354-575d-9874-c352738d47be.html

With that said, I planned on creating the following comment and thought that with a little rework it would make a decent statement for tomorrow. I would appreciate comments and recommendations. Please keep in mind that it was in response to the article referenced above.
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It’s disappointing that you can write these falsities and think that people will not actually look up the settlement agreement from 2013. These articles really need to go through a fact check before being posted. If the readers of this article want to read the actual settlement and the discussion of what it literally means, I invite you to go to TMC at the following links.

Virginia Hearing, 4/25 -- Represent!

Mr. Hall you bring up one relevant point. The VA law was made a long time ago. A time when information was not readily available to the mass public. The world has changed; let the free market determine the best course forward. So far the Tesla model seems to be working pretty well.

To that point I will provide some information on my personal experience with a dealership vs a Tesla purchase. When GM started the Volt project I was extremely interested. I followed it from concept to reality. When it was finally available for pre-order I jumped on it. I had to call 3 dealerships (all of which were listed on GMs website as the initial Volt dealers) before I was able to get an order. Do you know what I was told by all of those dealers including the one who finally agreed to sell me one? They told me I should buy a Chevy Cruze because it was cheaper and would get the same gas mileage. I was so disappointed that after years of waiting for this car, I was being told by the dealers (that you’re telling me I should trust) that it wasn’t the car I really wanted. Through the entire purchase process (order to delivery) I knew more about the car than the dealer did. I know GM realized this was going to happen which is why they created a group called the Volt Advisors. It basically got to the point where I only called my Volt Advisor instead of the dealership with the exception of when I had to call them to pick up my car. That’s right, the GM Volt Advisor had to tell me that my car arrived at the dealership. When my wife and I went to pick up my car, we sat through the normal 3+ hours of paperwork and trying to sell me on things like “fallout” protection. After approximately 1 hour of the dealer associate trying to tell me how my new Volt worked, I told him to stop as I clearly knew more about the car than he did. I left with a great car and a very bad experience. After reading articles from customers on GM-volt.com it looks like my experience wasn’t that bad compared to people whose costs were inflated as well as being told to buy things they didn’t need. The one point that is relevant for my situation and the many you will see from the GM-volt forum is that dealers do not put the effort into learning and training their employees about new technologies. They are more interested in selling the stock they think people should buy. It took GM creating a team of Volt Advisors to try to make sure people got the information they needed. The Volt Advisors were not independent dealers, Mr. Hall. So when you ask me (the actual customer), is an independent dealer in the public’s interest for Tesla? The answer is absolutely no.

On to my Tesla purchase. Like the Volt, I had followed the Tesla Model S from concept to production. Their website is a wealth of information and clearly was designed to educate buyers. When I was ready, I submitted online for a test drive and was called shortly afterwards to setup a schedule. When I arrived at the Tesla store in DC (that’s right I couldn’t do it in my own state at the time) they walked me through the details of the car. They answered every question I had about the car. When looking at options the Tesla representative ask me about how I normally drive. He asked if I take long trips, how many people generally ride with me, etc. With that information he made recommendations for options. He never tried to upsell and in fact stated that I didn’t need several features. The Tesla representative ended up finding an inventory car with my options, and I bought the car the next week. No haggling. No letting me sit to think about options I don’t need. No “I will go ask my supervisor if we can let this go for your crazy offer.” When I picked up my car another highly skilled Tesla representative walked me through the car from end to end and answered all of my remaining questions. Purchasing a Tesla was by far the best car purchasing experience I have ever had.

The fact of the matter is that a Tesla is not just an electric car. It is a computer on wheels that is continuously improved with over-the-air updates. It is a unique combination of technologies that independent dealerships are not designed to support and have shown in the past with other electric cars (see my example above), that they don’t care. It is in the public’s best interest to have Tesla owned stores where specifically trained staff and services can be provided for an ever-changing piece of technology.

I have been treading lightly on the bigger problem here. The laws the VADA is is trying so desperately to misconstrued are to support a model that takes advantage of the average consumer. No one in their right mind wants to haggle the price of a car. It’s a car not a used bicycle at a garage sale. Why does someone else get a better deal if they are better at haggling than I am? Why do I have to buy a car from a dealer who is more interested in what ridiculous options they can trick me into than helping me make an informed purchase. Why should I have to pay more for less service? This is the model I’m supposed to support? A model that takes advantage of the misinformed. No, the dealership model is not in the publics best interest.
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[techmaven]

A central point is this... since it is well established by expert testimony that it is unprofitable to run a Tesla dealership, if a 3rd party were to volunteer and run a dealership, there is not a profit incentive to provide good service or to sell vehicles. I can trust someone with a profit motive to try to do a good job at providing customer service. However, I do not see how the customers can trust a 3rd party volunteer to run a dealership that has no current or foreseeable future profits. Without a profit motive, what are the motives of a 3rd party volunteer dealership? As a result, there is no trust that a 3rd party dealership would be able to operate a Tesla dealership in the public interest.

To expand on the other motives, if they said they were going to do this to promote electric vehicles, then ask why they do such a terrible job now with electric vehicles? Why do they take any profits now with the electric vehicles that they already are trying to sell?

Finally, Tesla is already selling to consumers in the state of Virginia. Since a 3rd party dealership is an unworkable business arrangement, it follows that to serve the public interest which comprises of Tesla owners and future Tesla owners, the state should allow Tesla to directly operate this location to serve the public.

 

[bonnie]

While you do have to give cc info to create an account, it's a zero charge. It's their way of verifying that you are, in fact, who you say you are. At first I was going to skip it, but then decided it was prob a great way to keep out trolls.

You wouldn't be able to post all of the above (though I love it!). 1500 word limit on a post. Of course you could make multiple posts, which is what I had to do .

I have no doubt that someone from VADA is already reading your post. (Oh hey, VADA!) Just an fyi for them... You can expect more of the same.

 

[bhzmark]

Great info all. Stay on focused on the goal here: The Hearing officer needs info to help him make a determination that the condition in the statute is satisfied that will allow Tesla to open another mfr owned sales location. Namely that the public is better off with a Tesla owned service location than with a ind franchise location.

Make it all about consumer choice and they can choose to buy from Tesla, or if the dealers are so great, they can buy from a franchise dealer if they provide so much value to customers.

Give testimony that the Tesla dealer and service experience was much better for your interest and if you had to do that through a franchise dealer you would be worse off.

Tell a favorable track record of Tesla sales and service and a bad track record of franchisee experience. Observe that the dealers have no real evidence that they can finance sustainably a dealer location that doesn't sell oil changes, that they cannot educate their sales or service force on how to sell or service cars that are radically different.

Observe that the likely true motivation of the dealers is not to actually have the opportunity to be Tesla franchisee (which they wouldn't want to do because the economics doesn't work) but rather to simply stifle competition from an innovative company that doesn't need their services.

Tesla doesn't need their services and Tesla buyers in Virginia don't want their services. Consumers should have the choice to buy from whomever they want and the VA auto dealers shouldn't try to hide under skirt of a government hearing officer who has the power to give them the protection from a competitor that they fear.

Instead that hearing officer should allow Virginia consumers to choose: consumer choice will best promote the public interest.

 

[Wayneb]

@chickensevil, the point I was trying to make was that once there is a change of hands on a car the dealer no longer has the identity of the owner. Therefore neither they nor the manufacturer can notify the owner of recalls. So it is up to the vehicle owner, regardless of how he got the car, to comply with recalls. Mr. Weiss made the point that the public interest was protected by the dealers regarding recalls, but as you mention, recalls are run by the manufacturer and only executed by the dealers. Being out of touch with the majority of vehicle owners pretty much negates the argument that dealers can offer some protection to owners regarding recalls. If the manufacturer fails as in the case of Chevy ignition switches, or airbags, the dealer is off the hook. It's really the manufacturer who protects the consumer, and as Bonnie states, the traditional manufacturers have not been particularly interested in doing that.

 

[Wayneb]

I don't know how much difference it would make but it is likely that both Apple and Google will develop a vehicle in coming years, and unlikely that either would take it to the franchise model for sales. Certainly no conventional dealer will want that kind of competitive vehicle in their showroom taking sales from their traditional models. Given this future scenario Virginia will see this same issue come up again and again until something is done in the legislature. They might as well accept that the marketplace is changing and the VADA cannot continue to stand in the way of progress.

 

[bhzmark]

The law doesn't really have to change, as explained above. And it will be tough to change the law because of the campaign contributions by VADA to advance their legislative goals.

Instead, the VA legislature (wisely, I think after pondering it for awhile) deferred the matter to the DMV Commissioner and a hearing officer to determine if it is in the public interest to allow mfr owned sales and service on a case by case basis. Happily the hearing officer can't be lobbied and campaign funded by the corrupt VADA so they can actually rule on the merits! I'd rather have a government bureaucrat who is at least immune to political pressure actually make the determination with strict mandate to follow the public interest rather than campaign cash. It isn't ideal, but it is likely more manageable than a campaign and lobbying system financed by VADA who advancing their own interest rather than the public interest.

 

[Hodginator]

Unless I see other Teslas, I will park in the western parking lot tomorrow.

 

[Lanny]

I wonder if it might be a good idea for people to come prepared with written testimony in hand in the event that all the allotted time is consumed by the VADA lawyers again. Perhaps you can alert the Tesla attorney that you have written testimony and he or she can present your letters in the event that the hearing officer adjourns the proceedings without allowing the Tesla supporters to speak.

 

[Hodginator]

That's a good idea @Lanny. Can someone PM his/her info to me?

 

[bonnie]

I've alerted the Tesla lawyers.

 

[bonnie]

I'd recommend that you just straight out ask the hearing officer if anyone other than dealerships will be allowed to speak before the day ends. He needs to control the meeting and give equal time.

 

[Hodginator]

Thanks @bonnie!

 

[bhzmark]

Hearing officer should give more than equal time since the VADA cretins aren't testifying about public interest - they are just testifying about their own interest.

The public, whose interest the hearing is supposed to be about, should have all the time. VADA shouldn't even have standing to say anything any more than a single individual with an opinion. VADA, they have nothing to contribute except advancing their own interest.

At least point out that VADA time dominated the last hearing at X hours, and so the public, whose interest this hearing is supposed to be about should have at least twice that amount of time, even if it means yet another third hearing (which I will endeavor to attend).

 

[chickensevil]

Edit: Bleh, a bit too long having read this outloud. Unless I can have about 10 minutes of speaking time??? I probably should condense this down a bit.

Alright I'm going to use this as what I intend to state if given the opportunity. So feel free to critique any holes in the statement.

From a dealership buying experience, I have now either bought or been the backup person on the purchase of 4 vehicles from dealerships in 3 different states including VA. As a tactic you are best served not going alone to a dealer because you want to have someone there to have your back, lest you let things like emotions get in the way of making a purchase. Imagine that, being afraid to show any amount of excitement in a product because it could hurt your bargaining stance.

No other product when buying something new do you haggle. Even houses, if you are buying them straight from the builder, are bought at fixed rates for different services. At what point did we determine that haggling over the price of new goods was deemed an acceptable way of doing business?

In the end I have played their little 4-square games, let them go "talk to their supervisor", cloud what should be an otherwise straightforward purchase behind confusing financing arrangements and unneeded services. All so they can swindle you for every penny they can get. This process is agonizing and very time-consuming. I'm not talking about the walk through of the car, the test drive, checking out what you want to buy, all these things are relatively the same... But once you start talking with them about actually making a purchase they know they have you and will fight with you for hours.

Contrast the two purchases I have now made of a Tesla. I knew most everything about the car before going both times, but in both cases the sales guys were more than happy to patiently go over any questions I had. On the second purchase I was originally looking to buy an inventory car (Inventory cars have discounted rates on them and can be picked up within 7-14 days). I walked in, stated I wanted to look at their inventory as I was interested to see what they had, explained exactly which features I "must have" and which I "would like to have" and we looked over their inventory. We must have sat there for around 30 minutes going back and forth over inventory. And the sales guy was actually helping to talk me out of inventory I potentially was considering because it either didn't have features I really wanted, or had way too many features raising the price up above what I wanted to spend. He even carefully explained that even with the discounts if you get these extra things you would be better off buying custom since I would be paying more for things I never wanted in the first place.

Let that sink in. Here is a guy telling me NOT to get something because it would cost me more money and not be what I actually wanted. I was floored. On top of that he very patiently let me play around through what they had for as long as I pleased. I asked to think things over and he said that would be fine and home I went (after a quick test drive of course!) In the end I made the purchase from the comfort of my living room and ordered a custom configuration since their inventory just wasn't what I was looking for.

Note also, this is a pretty big deal/difference. Unless the Dealer owns multiple locations of the SAME manufacture, they do NOT like to move cars from one location to another, or let you buy a custom car over their inventory. I experienced this twice, once where they talked my friend into getting his Lexus RC-F based on the inventory they had, which had options he didn't really want, and the second was on a Honda Civic which they reluctantly made a deal with another nearby dealer to move the car because they didn't have the color I wanted. So you yet again have people influenced to push something on you that you do want in order to save them money (because them sitting on their inventory hurts them, and buying the inventory off someone else costs them.) And don't even try to ask for a custom built car. They add on extra costs and such to essentially make it cost prohibitive to want a custom order over just settling. Because Tesla owns all of their stores they will move inventory across the country and have no issues of custom vs inventory. In fact most of their business is built around the custom order anyway.

It is for these reasons that my buying experience was better at a Tesla owned location vice all my experiences with a dealer. The actual ordering and signing process took all of 5 minutes at order time and another 5 minutes at delivery. Tesla has also put great care into the education of their sales to understand their cars and be able to speak to them on any level the customer needs. I have never seen a dealer sit and explain through all the finer details of a car. They just push you once you show the slightest interest in something into making a sale... And if you back away they dump you and go to the next sucker... Errr I mean, customer... Tesla has more than just sales, they have delivery specialists, owner advisers, and financing advisers, none of these are there to push any additional services on to you, but are there to ensure that if you have any issues or questions they are available to help you. After I click the red order button there is no more "selling me" on anything. I have not once ever had this level of care from everything from GM, Honda, Lexus, and Ford (these are who I have dealt with). Once you get through the excruciating sales process, it's a thank you and have a nice day and nothing more. I not once had anyone walk us through the car, and that Lexus, probably needed a walk through because on the way home I was reading the manual trying to figure out their silly complicated touch screen just so we could use the Nav and tune the radio!

Bottom line, I implore you to let the customer choose the best business model. If a customer wants a dealer experience, as the dealer's have been happy to state, they do in fact sell electric cars. Feel free to wade through that experience. I for one, have chosen the Tesla way, and I'm sure others would too if given the chance. There is nothing about a dealer Model that serves the public interest... Just their own interests in trying to make a quick buck.

 

[chickensevil]

Will got back with me. He will unfortunately be in CT tomorrow, but they will have a consultant whose name is Bea that will be there. He did say that we should be able to make statements and it would be very much appreciated.

you should be able to provide your opinion. The exact timing of that opportunity is up to the hearing officer, and Bea can likely provide more detail. Your candid experience buying and receiving service from Tesla, a manufacturer compared to a dealer is what the hearing officer and commissioner need to hear. Your interest (along with other consumers) should have choice, and that's why Tesla should be allowed to open a store and service the greater Richmond metro.

 

[chickensevil]

So I'll be at Glen Allen Supercharger around 7 for breakfast since I got down here waaaay early.

 

[Zarwin]

quick reference link updated to go to this thread directly:

VA.TeslaDSM.org

 

[Lanny]

One thing that is not as apparent to consumers, but might be worth bringing up, is that the dealers often have an adversarial relationship with the manufacturers. The results of these strained relationships are often not good for the customers.

This article, published today in Automotive News, gives an example.

Why are some Nissan dealers so unhappy?

 

[bonnie]

Wow. I just saw this picture from this morning in Richmond. Amazing.