Why are people buying new ICE cars?

[Merrill]

Talk the talk walk the walk.

 

[brur]

I'm surprised, baffled, dismayed and so on by the new car buying habits of supposedly environmentally minded people in OR. I'm not talking about people for whom a Tesla is unaffordable, those looking to buy used, or people needing something not yet available in EV form. I'm referring to people who are buying NEW sedans or CUVs. "Ooh, I bought a Subaru/ some other ICE. I love it!". They talk excitedly about the gas mileage which is "great", especially with the "increasing gas prices".

It seems that they are not even considering a Tesla or a different EV. How can you be concerned about gas prices and excited about great mileage and not think about an EV? How can you be so oblivious to the change that is upon us?

Strange.

surprisingly a new ice car i a relatively refined, clean-burning vehicle. But, it is such a second rate vehicle compared to a tesla I am dismayed that anything but teslas are being bought.

 

[Barklikeadog]

This is the big problem that has to be overcome if we want to see an EV future; those who have the resources to buy one need to get onboard and initiate the momentum if we ever expect to see mass adoption. Look at all the ‘celebrity’ elites cruising Sunset Blvd or South Beach in their gas guzzling Euro exotics and SUVs while promoting environmental responsibility. That kind of hypocritical mindset needs to change in we expect 100% EV adoption by 2035.

This is the big problem:
130million households
45million of those households are rented
66% of all households have a garage or carport
18million new autos sold annually avg price 38k
40 million used autos sold annually avg price 21k

We've all seen the recent shocking headline: 20% of EV owners go back to ICE.
Reason: Cannot charge at home, too inconvenient.
This is the drum Ive been beating here for years. There is a significant percentage of the population who cannot charge at home.
They cannot charge now, they cannot charge in 5 years, or 10 years, or probably 15 years. 10's of millions of people park randomly in
the streets of major cities across the country. No mandate is going to change that fact.

 

[msm859]

I do drive 500mi each way several times per year. When I use the tesla trip planner, I get times closer to 10 hours depending on the vehicle. This would be an extra 18 hours of travel time throughout the year. No idea where I can charge at my destination, so there is obviously more time involved. I've always said... Give me a truck with 500+ range for a decent price and ill be a buyer... Then that thing rolled out on stage...ugh.

So I have driven my X twice to a destination 500 miles away. I am in California so charging stations are pretty much everywhere. On my route I might add 1 more. The extra time you talk about seems a little high. I can make my 500 mile trip with probably 2- 15 minute stops and a 30-40 minute stop. - Bath room and lunch breaks. However, I would like to see more range and a little faster charging - actually longer times at peak charging. For me, once they get an "advertised" range of 450+ miles and maybe 25% faster charging it will be a non issue.

 

[Barklikeadog]

So I have driven my X twice to a destination 500 miles away. I am in California so charging stations are pretty much everywhere. On my route I might add 1 more. The extra time you talk about seems a little high. I can make my 500 mile trip with probably 2- 15 minute stops and a 30-40 minute stop. - Bath room and lunch breaks. However, I would like to see more range and a little faster charging - actually longer times at peak charging. For me, once they get an "advertised" range of 450+ miles and maybe 25% faster charging it will be a non issue.

Not sure what that does for me. I have been through this exercise many times, using the Tesla trip planner and an EV trip planner with Tesla vehicles.
A few years ago it would always be over 10 hours, now it is less, but still 2 hours added time on my drive. people would argue, I'd post a screenshot of the
trip planner, and then it was crickets. If multiple trip planners are telling me one thing, but random internet guy is saying another, who would you believe?
And yea, I even experiment with planners that ask for variables such as weight or MPH over speed limit.

I took a look at my destination and searched for superchargers. The closest one is 18 miles away in the wrong direction.

 

[captain_sahaj]

I bought a Hyundai Elantra, it was only 22k, and got 40 mpg, plus it comes with sooo many nice features. Still love my 3 and Y!
Main reasons were cost...

 

[Barklikeadog]

I bought a Hyundai Elantra, it was only 22k, and got 40 mpg, plus it comes with sooo many nice features. Still love my 3 and Y!
Main reasons were cost...

People love their SUVs, the only one Tesla offers is over 100k. Otherwise it is back to sedan land.

We didn t have any money when I was a kid, I had to work for the life I have. I'm always thinking from the perspective of the people living paycheck to paycheck. There are a lot of people here who forget what the avg income is. They think everyone should be buying a luxury Ev and plugging it into their mcmansion's nice garage. Shame on those people buying cheap ICE and killing the earth! Death to ice!

 

[Watts_Up]

This is the big problem:
130million households
45million of those households are rented
66% of all households have a garage or carport
18million new autos sold annually avg price 38k
40 million used autos sold annually avg price 21k

We've all seen the recent shocking headline: 20% of EV owners go back to ICE.
Reason: Cannot charge at home, too inconvenient.
This is the drum Ive been beating here for years. There is a significant percentage of the population who cannot charge at home.
They cannot charge now, they cannot charge in 5 years, or 10 years, or probably 15 years. 10's of millions of people park randomly in
the streets of major cities across the country. No mandate is going to change that fact.

@Barklikeadog could you add to your list the percentage of street lighting poles to the number of cars parked in the streets?

More and more, the street lighting using mercury bulbs or high-pressure sodium get replaced by HID or LED corn cob lights.
Less power is needed, and even some street lighting use batteries charged during the days using a solar panel.

So the lesser used wires could be used to install some EV charging plugs, with very little overhead cost.
This is already quite common in some European cities.

The bottom line is that cities have certainly other priorities in their budget, such as fixing the burgeoning street potholes for example...
And privates companies, like PlugShare or EV-Go, are more targeting commercial areas than residential areas for public charging locations.

So typical drivers who park in the street, or rent a place and don't want to pay for the installation of a plug,
might finally choose an hydrogen EV car instead of a battery EV, even if this will be a more costly solution
and less practical solution when travelling because of the reduced number of hydrogen charging locations.

 

[msm859]

Not sure what that does for me. I have been through this exercise many times, using the Tesla trip planner and an EV trip planner with Tesla vehicles.
A few years ago it would always be over 10 hours, now it is less, but still 2 hours added time on my drive. people would argue, I'd post a screenshot of the
trip planner, and then it was crickets. If multiple trip planners are telling me one thing, but random internet guy is saying another, who would you believe?
And yea, I even experiment with planners that ask for variables such as weight or MPH over speed limit.

I took a look at my destination and searched for superchargers. The closest one is 18 miles away in the wrong direction.

Sounds like maybe PA needs more superchargers. CA has been adding them like crazy the last few years. One of the tipping points for me was Tesla added a supercharger in my little city along with a service center. My Los Angeles destination has a supercharger @3 miles away.
I understand why you would prefer to trust trip planner vs strangers. It could be that because of the limited superchargers on your route you have to do some odd things. Ideal situation is to run battery down to 10-20% and then charge to 70-80%. This gives you maximum charging speed. Given the distance between chargers you may have to charge sooner - which is also slower.

 

[Barklikeadog]

@Barklikeadog could you add to your list the percentage of street lighting poles to the number of cars parked in the streets?

More and more, the street lighting using mercury bulbs or high-pressure sodium get replaced by HID or LED corn cob lights.
Less power is needed, and even some street lighting use batteries charged during the days using a solar panel.

So the lesser used wires could be used to install some EV charging plugs, with very little overhead cost.
This is already quite common in some European cities.

The bottom line is that cities have certainly other priorities in their budget, such as fixing the burgeoning street potholes for example...
And privates companies, like PlugShare or EV-Go, are more targeting commercial areas than residential areas for public charging locations.

So typical drivers who park in the street, or rent a place and don't want to pay for the installation of a plug,
might finally choose an hydrogen EV car instead of a battery EV, even if this will be a more costly solution
and less practical solution when travelling because of the reduced number of hydrogen charging locations.

Let me tell you a story.

In Philly they used to have permits to put in a sidewalk ev charger in fron t of your house.
That permit and install would run about 6k.
A few people did it, 68 over 10 years. City has 2.5m spaces.

Then some people got bent out of shape... Why do these wealthy people with luxury cars get to 'buy' their own parking spot while everyone else circles the block? they stopped the program AND they will 'phase out' the current spots. the city ev team suggested more local charging for residents as a solution(its not) or the possibility of on street charging done by the city, not residents.

That was 3 years ago. Again, people didn't like the idea of the city spending big $$$ catering to people who bought nice cars.

 

[captain_sahaj]

surprisingly a new ice car i a relatively refined, clean-burning vehicle. But, it is such a second rate vehicle compared to a tesla I am dismayed that anything but teslas are being bought.

EVs are just too expensive right now. the cheap ones are too small or dont go far

 

[Jtrader]

I live 3 miles outside of Garfield KY. The nearest charger is in Elizabethtown KY 31 miles from my house. There are chargers in Louisville and Bardstown. We went to Owensboro today 3 hour round trip. I did not see one electric vehicle charging station. I have not seen an electric car in almost 4 weeks. The last ones I saw were 2 Teslas in April in Elizabethtown KY

Tesla SuperCharger coming to Beaver Dam 3Q 2021. EV's are all over Lexington.

 

[msm859]

Let me tell you a story.

In Philly they used to have permits to put in a sidewalk ev charger in fron t of your house.
That permit and install would run about 6k.
A few people did it, 68 over 10 years. City has 2.5m spaces.

Then some people got bent out of shape... Why do these wealthy people with luxury cars get to 'buy' their own parking spot while everyone else circles the block? they stopped the program AND they will 'phase out' the current spots. the city ev team suggested more local charging for residents as a solution(its not) or the possibility of on street charging done by the city, not residents.

That was 3 years ago. Again, people didn't like the idea of the city spending big $$$ catering to people who bought nice cars.

Well if only 68 people did it (out of 2.5 million spots) pretty sad that ANYONE would complain. I would suspect that most "rich" people have a garage for their car. But it is a real problem if we want the masses to buy EV's.

 

[roblab]

EVs are just too expensive right now. the cheap ones are too small or dont go far

I hear this all the time. Then I see people, like our daughter's husband, who won't buy an "expensive" EV, but owns two pickups and three cars. And my wife's 3 goes 320 miles on a charge, so I don't understand the comment about small and not going far. Add to that, there are chargers literally everywhere that will give you a couple hundred miles while you eat your burrito.

Haters gonna hate, complainers gonna complain. My brother won't buy an EV, but owns EIGHT cars, plus a tractor.

 

[captain_sahaj]

I hear this all the time. Then I see people, like our daughter's husband, who won't buy an "expensive" EV, but owns two pickups and three cars. And my wife's 3 goes 320 miles on a charge, so I don't understand the comment about small and not going far. Add to that, there are chargers literally everywhere that will give you a couple hundred miles while you eat your burrito.

Haters gonna hate, complainers gonna complain. My brother won't buy an EV, but owns EIGHT cars, plus a tractor.

I have a 3 and a Y, but recently bought a kia niro phev and a pacifica van phev, since the price of those are just so low, and have such great value. Also no ev van available yet.

 

[Barklikeadog]

Well if only 68 people did it (out of 2.5 million spots) pretty sad that ANYONE would complain. I would suspect that most "rich" people have a garage for their car. But it is a real problem if we want the masses to buy EV's.

I mostly bring this up to the unwavering 'death to ice' people who are blind to such obstacles and inconveniences. They seem to think life is like all of the tesla promo pictures. 200k of autos in the driveway of a million dollar home.

 

[msm859]

I mostly bring this up to the unwavering 'death to ice' people who are blind to such obstacles and inconveniences. They seem to think life is like all of the tesla promo pictures. 200k of autos in the driveway of a million dollar home.

This is where government is going to have to step in. New apartment complexes should be required to have EV charging both actual and plumbed for additional spots as needs increase. CA now requires new houses to be wired in the garages for an outlet. A big argument now is the convenience of all the gas stations. If you have your own home charger that is far more convenient than gas stations, so we need to make charging more convenient for people who are not living in their million dollar home.

 

[Barklikeadog]

This is where government is going to have to step in. New apartment complexes should be required to have EV charging both actual and plumbed for additional spots as needs increase. CA now requires new houses to be wired in the garages for an outlet. A big argument now is the convenience of all the gas stations. If you have your own home charger that is far more convenient than gas stations, so we need to make charging more convenient for people who are not living in their million dollar home.

Philly can't even get the asbestos out of their crumbling schools. It's pretty bad. People complaining about the taxes there is ridiculous as well. Someone with a 500k row house pays maybe 3k in prop taxes. In the suburbs that same home would be 12k and a 1st class school district.

 

[ThomasD]

My GF purchased a brand new 2020 Ford crew cab XLT Sport last year for 28,000 Dollars. Even though the Rivian isn't out yet the starting price is 69,000
Built it for 35000 and more people will be able to afford it

 

[Barklikeadog]

My GF purchased a brand new 2020 Ford crew cab XLT Sport last year for 28,000 Dollars. Even though the Rivian isn't out yet the starting price is 69,000
Built it for 35000 and more people will be able to afford it

That is an insane deal. Getting an xlt for a bargain is the best bang for the buck truck you can buy. She is a keeper