tonybelding
Active Member
Isn't that a bit like saying you're with the Flat Earth Society?
No. No, it's not.
Also, there are global warming prophets of doom who are every bit as irrational and blind to science as the worst so-called "deniers".
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Isn't that a bit like saying you're with the Flat Earth Society?
+1
Your are right. People that still doubt the viability of electric cards have clearly missed something.
The change is inevitable.
Methane is one of the most common and easily made fuels, with a large number of potential renewable sources. Nothing says that it has to come from fracking - which certainly is a problem and I think needs to be addressed separately by legislation.
CNG storage in a car still isn't great - but it's an order of magnitude better than hydrogen, with a third the pressure, more activation energy, and a narrow explosive ratio range. I suppose the other bright side of a fuel cell is you can tap that waste heat for "free" cabin heating - and SOFCs like to be really hot. In cold weather it might come close to being competitive, maybe.
Also, there are global warming prophets of doom who are every bit as irrational and blind to science as the worst so-called "deniers".
Speaking of Joe Romm, only a few months left in this eight year old bet: Joseph Romm and Greg Blencoe Bet On Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles : TreeHugger
2014 Auto Sales Jump in U.S., Even With RecallsSpeaking of Joe Romm, only a few months left in this eight year old bet: Joseph Romm and Greg Blencoe Bet On Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles : TreeHugger
I think that this year less than 500 FCVs will be sold / leased in the U.S.
Speaking of Joe Romm, only a few months left in this eight year old bet: Joseph Romm and Greg Blencoe Bet On Hydrogen Fuel Cell Vehicles : TreeHugger
Since this is a fuel/fool cell thread. I noticed that EPA rates gasoline as 33.7kWH/gallon equivalent. So 3 gallons of gasoline = 101.1 kWH.
My understanding is that we are only able to extract 10-20% of the energy via combustion (rest lost as heat). I know everyone talks about H2 fuel cell, but theoretically you can build gasoline fuel cells. I read that the theoretical efficiency would be 60-70%. At that rate, you can get 100kWH out of approximately 4-5 gallons. Furthermore the infrastructure is there and gasoline is relatively stable and easier to store than H2. If the oil and gas companies invest in anything fuel cell related they should be looking at this.
My personal bias is to build better batteries, but I doubt the oil and gas companies would have any interest in investing their money that way.
My personal bias is to build better batteries, but I doubt the oil and gas companies would have any interest in investing their money that way.
Actually, modern engines do a lot better than that when operating in the better ranges. A lot of the improvement in gas mileage in hybrids comes from keeping the engine in those sweet spots. My Volt can achieve 33-34% thermal efficiency with its conventional port injected OHV engine (with variable valve timing and other modern bits, of course.) The last generation Prius can manage 37-38% with it's Atkinson cycle motor, and I'm told they claim 40% for 2016s.
So the gap (and therefore the opportunity) is a lot smaller than you're thinking, but your point is still valid.
I'm not an expert on fuel cells of all types, but the only ones I'm familiar with that can handle longer chain hydrocarbons are things like the solid oxide ceramic cells. These work at very high temperatures (900C) and "burn" the long chains by breaking them down thermally first (like a gassifier does) in the fuel cell chamber. I'm not sure if they get any power from oxidizing the carbon or not.
An interesting alternative (which doesn't really improve the situation much all things considered) would be an on board steam reformer. This would let you use a lower temperature (and I believe more efficient and shock tolerant) hydrogen fuel cell (which would then be getting the full benefit of the carbon oxidation, because the steam reformer generates hydrogen in the process) - but you would still have the high temperature gasses in the reformer itself.
Walter
As a car application, fuel cells need to use Hydrogen because with gasoline, you can't get rid of CO2... Doesn't make sense half-burning the gas then use Hydrogen to generate electricity.Thanks for the insight! Came across this article from 2011 regarding miniaturizing and decreasing temps for fuel cells. I wonder whatever happened to this?
Gasoline Fuel Cell Would Boost Electric Car Range
Only thing I could find was an attempt to create a fuel cell for building power supplies, not cars or trucks.