Vendor Wish you could reduce Supercharging usage? Looking for testers

[GNFO]

Is the Ultra EV friendly? I seem to recall the older Pro's with associated HW had some problems charging a Tesla.

I haven't been able to justify the expense yet since it's just for backup power and my gas generator works fine (if a bit of a pain to set up), but I've done a fair amount of research and they do show it charging an EV. I think the fact that there isn't any need to pair with a second identical device helps.

The only reason I mentioned the 110V charging while simultaneously providing power to a load is that is what the OP mentions as an advantage of his system. The Ultra is normally meant to be able to support a load with no grid power at all, but can also work at the same time as it's being charged. Just not 240V both in and out at the same time.

 

[DougDC]

Your idea is very sound and does make sense. I also am not your target customer, but would bring up two things:

1: If intended for condo and apartment dwellers, is there any way to lock a very expensive device down if you don't have access to a secure garage space that is just your own? Even a "secure" garage for the whole building can have bad actors or visitors. Also, is it weather resistant?

2: Have you compared your device to the new EcoFlow Delta Pro Ultra? It's intended for home backup or RV travel, but it's also portable and can provide 240V while also charging on 110V. I was looking at it because of the home backup part and the fact I could charge it from a portable generator while still running if there was an extended power outage. Also, you can charge it off of 240V as well, just not while it is providing power too. So in your use case for apartments, it could also be plugged in to the dryer outlet if you needed power sooner.

The issue you're going to face is that the EcoFlow is available right now. Baseline 6 kWh of battery expandable up to 30 kWh for a single stack, or up to 90 kWh if combined with two other stacks (although the ability to combine stacks requires extra equipment and an electrician installation). The baseline 6 kWh unit goes for $5,799 with additional battery modules for $3,299. You'll have to be able to compete with that.

I wish you the best of luck.

Or the zendure SBV product line with expansion batteries and TT30 port?

Can it also provide 240V off the battery alone without having the 110v plugged it? Or is the 110v mandatory to get 240v out?

Great questions and observations!

Those systems are great for home back up and if you need to charge your car in a pinch but no one would want to use it in the same way they would use DockCharged. None of the other back up systems whether it is Ecoflow, zendure, Anker can do what Dockcharged does and fortunately we got a patent for it. The other systems need to be grounded, you have to enter a special grounding mode, and so while you can charge an EV it will only do it when you have the system grounded and it will drain the battery. Once it is drained, then that's it, the battery is dead and then you need to plug your car into something another power source. The user experience of doing that is pretty bad, especially if you're trying to charge overnight.

Our system does it automatically and it can do home backup duties too if you choose.

Also, we do have a way for people to lock the Dockcharged where it is secure but we're writing a patent for that now and I can't disclose it to the public or then I won't be able to get protection.

 

[buckets0fun]

whether it is Ecoflow, zendure, Anker can do what Dockcharged does and fortunately we got a patent for it. The other systems need to be grounded, you have to enter a special grounding mode, and so while you can charge an EV it will only do it when you have the system grounded and it will drain the battery. Once it is drained, then that's it, the battery is dead and then you need to plug your car into something another power source.

Hmm. I have no horse in this race and maybe I’m not understanding what you’re saying.

I’ve plugged the SBV into a low power outlet and used the TT30 while the outlet kept the zendure topped off between spikes in usage. Is this not essentially what your product does? I apologize, I’m too lazy to look up the patent and nail down what utility (?) you were granted for.

 

[DougDC]

No because the car will be charging at level 2. There is no switch off between L1 and L2 in their systems. It requires a lot of software and hardware when making that switch off from L1 and L2.

 

[thyname]

Can it also provide 240V off the battery alone without having the 110v plugged it? Or is the 110v mandatory to get 240v out?

@DougDC : can you answer this question?

 

[DougDC]

@DougDC : can you answer this question?

Sorry for missing that. Yes, it can just drain energy from the battery and doesn't need to be plugged in

 

[buckets0fun]

No because the car will be charging at level 2. There is no switch off between L1 and L2 in their systems. It requires a lot of software and hardware when making that switch off from L1 and L2

I looked through your website and this thread, what is the max charge rate for your device?
I read L2 being quoted all the time, isn’t L2 considered anything 3kW and above? Basically anything a standard wall socket can’t output?

The product interests me, I’m trying to understand how best to fit it into my enclosed trailer or offgrid needs.

 

[jeremymc7]

Sorry for missing that. Yes, it can just drain energy from the battery and doesn't need to be plugged in

Excellent. Helpful incase the power goes out or side benefit if you want to take it camping.

The more flexibility and edge use cases it can support the better.

I was also happy to see the solar input support. Also helpful. Hopefully it's a decent input. Most of these battery unit doesn't support nearly enough solar input to be useful.

 

[jeremymc7]

If you still need more testers I'll give it a go. I'm just up the 405 from you 20 min. I'm only charging off a standard wall outlet anyway so it'll be fun to try charging at something higher besides a Supercharger.

 

[DougDC]

If you still need more testers I'll give it a go. I'm just up the 405 from you 20 min. I'm only charging off a standard wall outlet anyway so it'll be fun to try charging at something higher besides a Supercharger.

Yes, we are always looking for more testers. We have a very long line, but talking to users as much as possible to identify what their charging problems are and how they think about the charging experience is very important for me to understand. You're very close actually. Let's definitely connect. Sending you a DM

 

[M CARLING]

The video shows the Tesla charging from DockCharge at 216V. That’s odd if it’s being powered by the DockCharge’s inverter. Why is your inverter configured for less than 240V?

Here is a suggestion if DockCharge has an integrated EVSE (which I believe it must based on the claim that it switches from 240V to 120V when the DockCharge’s battery is discharged because it’s the EVSE that sets the charging current): Make the output configurable 240V or 277V. Provide an option to plug into 208V/240V receptacles in addition to 120V (they haven’t been 110V since the 1950s) receptacles. I don’t live there anymore, but I used to live in a building with 208V available (that was actually only about 190V) and would have loved to be able to charge at 277V.

 

[bobkart]

I've considered building something like this, as I'm currently piggy-backed onto a 30-amp circuit for a clothes dryer, which is not to code. I only have a 100-amp panel as the house was built in the '60s, so adding a 60-amp circuit for a Wall Connector, or even a 40-amp circuit for a Mobile Connector, would require a panel upgrade.

@DougDC can you confirm that your product has the functionality I think it does:

Three parts -
- 6kWh battery, presumable LFP and likely 48V nominal (51.2V)
- AC-to-DC charger for above, roughly 1.5kW
- 240VAC inverter sized ~15kW

Then of course an EVSE from inverter to car. And your system adds WiFi connectivity.

Note that I can still charge at over 20mi/h, pulling 24A from the 30A circuit, I just can't also run the clothes dryer. This is plenty for my needs, as I only put about 1,000mi/month on the car. A second motivation for such a system would be to provide backup power during an outage (as it sounds like your does).

EDIT: I just watched the video and a 6kW (or so) inverter would be enough for the charging rate that was shown. The 15kW I mentioned would be for charging at 48A.

 

[M CARLING]

I just watched the video and a 6kW (or so) inverter would be enough for the charging rate that was shown. The 15kW I mentioned would be for charging at 48A.

48A at 208V would be 10kW.
48A at 240V would be 11.5kW.
48A at 277V would be 13.3kW.
I’m not sure why you want a 15kW inverter, unless you’re hoping that it will be stressed less by not operating at peak load. Thermal cycling is the main stressor of power electronics.

 

[bobkart]

I’m not sure why you want a 15kW inverter, unless you’re hoping that it will be stressed less by not operating at peak load. Thermal cycling is the main stressor of power electronics.

You usually want some capacity headroom. Some inverter models struggle right at their maximum rating. Combine that with wanting to be able to power house loads during outages. 15kW was the next round number up from those you mentioned.

 

[M CARLING]

BTW, the marketing limit is given in terms of power (watts). The physical limit is current (amps). Many nominally 240V inverters can be configured to produce 208V and many can produce up to 264V (240V + 10%). Changing the output voltage in the inverter’s configuration settings will normally not have any effect on the maximum current produced, but will affect the power available. Some inverters may have extra electronics to make them behave as power limited devices, but the natural default of an inverter is to be current limited.

 

[bobkart]

If I were to run a setup like this, I'd be looking to run as high of an AC voltage as would be accepted by the car (minus a bit for reliability). Would you happen to know what that voltage is? I've heard they work with 277VAC, so the limit could be as high as 300VAC (yielding 14.4kW).

 

[M CARLING]

If I were to run a setup like this, I'd be looking to run as high of an AC voltage as would be accepted by the car (minus a bit for reliability). Would you happen to know what that voltage is? I've heard they work with 277VAC, so the limit could be as high as 300VAC (yielding 14.4kW).

If your electricity is generated by an inverter, then it’s going to be very close to whatever it’s configured to be. If it’s from the grid, it should be +/- 5% of nominal, but I’ve seen grid voltages outside that range. I would not try to go higher than 277V nominal if grid connected. I haven’t seen any single-phase 277V inverters, but a three-phase 480Y277V inverter could be used (at one third of the rated power if connected to only one wall connector). In that case, you could simply test incrementally higher voltages until it became unreliable. If I were grid-connected to 208V or 240V and really needed to charge at the fastest possible rate, I would use an autotransformer to boost up to 277V. If you want to do that, either be sure you really know what you’re doing or hire a master electrician. I would not hire a journeyman electrician for that job.

 

[DougDC]

For all that signed up, my co-founder Chris will be reaching out. I have been busy fundraising for the business and getting us ramen profitable. I haven't forgotten and we will be in touch shortly. Thanks so much.

Here is a little bit of a production update:

 

[APotatoGod]

Awesome project! If you're still accepting volunteers to get free units for help with testing them, I'd definitely be interested!

I'm especially interested in use as a portable device, as a couple frequent travel destinations for me don't have 240v service and aren't very near superchargers. I could also help with testing the solar charging functionality.

 

[DougDC]

Awesome project! If you're still accepting volunteers to get free units for help with testing them, I'd definitely be interested!

I'm especially interested in use as a portable device, as a couple frequent travel destinations for me don't have 240v service and aren't very near superchargers. I could also help with testing the solar charging functionality.

Yes, we are always accepting volunteers. Sign up on the site and my co-founder will reach out to you.