1.37.0

[JES2]

It's odd how some see discharging during off-peak. I've always used Balanced and have never seen my system discharge during off-peak. What do you have your reserve set to?

I am at 1.36.1 and I still see it discharge in off-peak (under cost savings) IF the gap between what my Powerwalls "are charged to" and the "reserve" is greater than 20% or so. My off-peak is 8 pm to 6 am.

What seems to be hitting lately, in peak, when I have fully loaded Powerwalls, I will get the "grid" jumping in if there is a quick surge of power (such as our A/C unit coming on.) Eventually, the Powerwall takes over, but I have seen the delay as long as five minutes before the Powerwalls wake up. (Anybody else ever see that?) I wonder what would trigger the Powerwalls to get caught napping. This usually happens when solar is carrying the load and the Powerwalls get fully charged than are idle.

L2 saw this occur on my system a few months back, but it is not resolved.

 

[miimura]

Another week has gone by. At high SOC, >85%, it still discharges during morning Off-Peak before the sun comes up. Today, during Part-Peak it filled completely to 100% with reduced charging power of 0.6kW just before it got completely full, then started discharging with low power (~0.3kW) , then charged again, then discharged a little more before the Peak Period started.

Sunday: discharge from 3:45am until solar matches consumption, charge to 100% then goes into Standby until Peak.

Monday: Discharge starts at 3:00am until solar exceeds consumption, then charges to 100% and bounces between discharge and charge a little before Peak starts.

Monday slow discharge before peak:

On a Sunday this time of year, there will always be surplus production filling the batteries to 100% during Off-Peak. I would prefer that it never discharge during Off-Peak because it's wasted cycles.
On the other hand, the discharge during a Monday morning Off-Peak is worse because if it just kept the energy in the battery, the solar would be credited at Part-Peak rates after the batteries were filled.

 

[Frankman60]

If you like the way your Powerwalls are performing and do not want to update to fewer firmware, is there a way to prevent an auto update (e,g, like a Tesla car)?

 

[miimura]

If you like the way your Powerwalls are performing and do not want to update to fewer firmware, is there a way to prevent an auto update (e,g, like a Tesla car)?

I don't know of a way to do that.

 

[NuShrike]

If you like the way your Powerwalls are performing and do not want to update to fewer firmware, is there a way to prevent an auto update (e,g, like a Tesla car)?

Regularly logging in and restarting the Sitemaster seems to have done that for me.

 

[miimura]

On the other hand, the discharge during a Monday morning Off-Peak is worse because if it just kept the energy in the battery, the solar would be credited at Part-Peak rates after the batteries were filled.

That morning discharge was 2.5kWh. At $0.125/kWh I avoided $0.3125 of Off-Peak electricity. However, filling the battery after that discharge probably took almost 3.0kWh that I could have been credited $0.265/kWh, so I lost out on $0.795 of NEM credits. That's a net loss of $0.4825 per day. If it does that every Monday morning for 16 weeks in late Spring through early Fall, it will cost me $7.72. It's pretty small, but it's money that could be in my pocket.

 

[NuShrike]

Here's a list of things I see changed in the Install Wizard for 1.37.1 (from 1.35.2):

• version update checking is now smarter. It tells you it is "up to date" with green circle instead of forcing you to skip it.
  • it remembers your previous check, even if you change browsers/computer
    
• micro-inverter database is still out of date as it only lists Sunpower AC C inverters (dates 2017), instead of the D inverters of 2018, or the E inverters of 2019.
  
  
• CT interface has expanded a lot! It now supports 200/264A option, or 800A (probably for triple-phase setups), per CT.
  • CT options are now Site, Solar, Solar (1CT x2), Load, None. So it now supports 1-phase solar CTs, and just multiplies?
    
• Diagnostics have expanded and are now also granular. There's two groups, Networking and Device Communications.
  • Networking has (all or none): ping Google HTTP, ping Google HTTPS, check Tesla Configuration Server Status, check Tesla Logging Server Status
  • Device Communications has (all or none): CAN bus -> Enable switch, Synchronizer
  • it remembers your previous results, even if you change browsers/computer

Everything else looks the same.

 

[ucizhangli]

Another week has gone by. At high SOC, >85%, it still discharges during morning Off-Peak before the sun comes up. Today, during Part-Peak it filled completely to 100% with reduced charging power of 0.6kW just before it got completely full, then started discharging with low power (~0.3kW) , then charged again, then discharged a little more before the Peak Period started.

Sunday: discharge from 3:45am until solar matches consumption, charge to 100% then goes into Standby until Peak.
View attachment 415312

Monday: Discharge starts at 3:00am until solar exceeds consumption, then charges to 100% and bounces between discharge and charge a little before Peak starts.
View attachment 415313

Monday slow discharge before peak:
View attachment 415314

On a Sunday this time of year, there will always be surplus production filling the batteries to 100% during Off-Peak. I would prefer that it never discharge during Off-Peak because it's wasted cycles.
On the other hand, the discharge during a Monday morning Off-Peak is worse because if it just kept the energy in the battery, the solar would be credited at Part-Peak rates after the batteries were filled.

The balanced mode is trying to balance cost savings and self consumption. When there is surplus solar to fully fill the battery, it should charge from the excessive solar during partial and off peak hours, discharge during on peak and then offset load during partial peak and off peak. If you use cost saving mode, it will not discharge during off peak hours.

 

[miimura]

The balanced mode is trying to balance cost savings and self consumption. When there is surplus solar to fully fill the battery, it should charge from the excessive solar during partial and off peak hours, discharge during on peak and then offset load during partial peak and off peak. If you use cost saving mode, it will not discharge during off peak hours.

It's been a year since I tried Cost Saving mode. At that time, Cost Saving was doing even worse weird stuff, but I think it's time to give it a try again. I think I will change it Friday night and see how it goes for the next week.

 

[ucizhangli]

I have been watching the app closely today since being upgraded to 1.37.1 this morning. It looks like they might've finally fixed discharging during the shoulder period before peak...or maybe things just reset and it will start over in a couple of days. While some people have reported seeing their Powerwalls discharge in off-peak, we've never had that issue. However, we've always seen our Powerwalls start discharging hours before peak period starts. For example, we have the peak period scheduled to start at 2 PM Monday - Friday. Since programming in peak, part-peak and off-peak, we've always seen the Powerwalls start to discharge hours early, sometimes 3 or 3 hours before peak. Today with 1.37.1, the Powerwalls were charged up from 32% to 100% by 11 am but they stayed at 100% until right at 2 PM. This is how I have expected things to work...but we'll see in the coming weeks if it stays that way!

If there is more energy than needed to offset the load during the on peak hours, it should discharge during partial peak as well when on cost saving mode. Because there are three TOU periods with different energy price, the solution when on the cost saving mode should be: 1. charge on off peak and discharge on peak then partial peak; 2. charge on off peak then partial peak and discharge on peak; 3. charge partial peak and discharge on peak if you're on ITC and there is no way to charge on off peak. It all depends on how you config the TOU periods and the home load and solar profiles.

 

[ucizhangli]

It's been a year since I tried Cost Saving mode. At that time, Cost Saving was doing even worse weird stuff, but I think it's time to give it a try again. I think I will change it Friday night and see how it goes for the next week.

The cost saving mode is pretty simple and hard to get messed up. It tries to save you the most based on your TOU periods settings. Give it another try.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

If there is more energy than needed to offset the load during the on peak hours, it should discharge during partial peak as well when on cost saving mode. Because there are three TOU periods with different energy price, the solution when on the cost saving mode should be: 1. charge on off peak and discharge on peak then partial peak; 2. charge on off peak then partial peak and discharge on peak; 3. charge partial peak and discharge on peak if you're on ITC and there is no way to charge on off peak. It all depends on how you config the TOU periods and the home load and solar profiles.

My Powerwalls worked very predictably since last September when they were activated and I set up TBC Balanced. I have not changed and settings. While I thought yesterday's change where it waited to discharge once peak started made sense, today it is doing something it's never done before. The Powerwalls are discharging during off-peak while the cars are charging. They are discharging at close to 10kW and have drained from 80% to 60% in the past 90 minutes and they will go down to 50% before the car stops charging.

I thought about stopping the cars from charging but decided to leave things alone to see what happens. Typically the batteries would be down to around the 30% reserve each morning so I was surprised they were still at 80% up until 430 this morning.

 

[Brovane]

Set your TBC to Cost Saving, not Balanced. I have the exact same setup as you do, and 1.37.1 discharged off-peak on the first day because I was still using Balanced. Changing TBC to Cost Savings stopped all off-peak discharge.

Thank you, So far this seems to have stopped the issue of discharging off-peak.

 

[Shygar]

My Powerwalls worked very predictably since last September when they were activated and I set up TBC Balanced. I have not changed and settings. While I thought yesterday's change where it waited to discharge once peak started made sense, today it is doing something it's never done before. The Powerwalls are discharging during off-peak while the cars are charging. They are discharging at close to 10kW and have drained from 80% to 60% in the past 90 minutes and they will go down to 50% before the car stops charging.

I thought about stopping the cars from charging but decided to leave things alone to see what happens. Typically the batteries would be down to around the 30% reserve each morning so I was surprised they were still at 80% up until 430 this morning.

I think there is an algorithm to figure out how much they can discharge before it charges in the morning. My Model 3 charges at 12:30am and finished 2 hours later, all straight from the grid. However now I see it started discharging the battery around 4am with minimal usage. I'm ok with that as long as it is minimal. I do wonder why it makes sense to do that, maybe it's better for the battery? The cost increase is very minimal, but maybe there's a reason for using balanced in this way.

FYI I'm on 1.37.1 and have one powerwall 2.

 

[NinjaVece]

I have been watching the app closely today since being upgraded to 1.37.1 this morning. It looks like they might've finally fixed discharging during the shoulder period before peak...or maybe things just reset and it will start over in a couple of days. While some people have reported seeing their Powerwalls discharge in off-peak, we've never had that issue. However, we've always seen our Powerwalls start discharging hours before peak period starts. For example, we have the peak period scheduled to start at 2 PM Monday - Friday. Since programming in peak, part-peak and off-peak, we've always seen the Powerwalls start to discharge hours early, sometimes 3 or 3 hours before peak. Today with 1.37.1, the Powerwalls were charged up from 32% to 100% by 11 am but they stayed at 100% until right at 2 PM. This is how I have expected things to work...but we'll see in the coming weeks if it stays that way!

I too am on 1.37.1. I've, however, seen no difference in its actions under Advanced Cost Saving mode between 1.36 and 1.37. The discharge is continuing only to happen during Peak periods - which is how I want it. But glad the new version is working better for your setup.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I too am on 1.37.1. I've, however, seen no difference in its actions under Advanced Cost Saving mode between 1.36 and 1.37. The discharge is continuing only to happen during Peak periods - which is how I want it. But glad the new version is working better for your setup.

I don't know if it's better overall. It's definitely different! I do like how it doesn't discharge hours before peak starts every day. I don't know if I like the early morning discharging while we charge our cars. Before, it was quite predictable and would never discharge during off-peak. Now it is quickly discharging 30% in the early morning hours. Also, peak just ended and now it's not discharging even though the Powerwalls have a 93% charge. Why aren't they discharging in part-peak?!? Previously we could rely on TBC to act as a scheduled self-powered mode but now it makes no sense what it is doing at various times throughout the day.

 

[NinjaVece]

I don't know if it's better overall. It's definitely different! I do like how it doesn't discharge hours before peak starts every day. I don't know if I like the early morning discharging while we charge our cars. Before, it was quite predictable and would never discharge during off-peak. Now it is quickly discharging 30% in the early morning hours. Also, peak just ended and now it's not discharging even though the Powerwalls have a 93% charge. Why aren't they discharging in part-peak?!? Previously we could rely on TBC to act as a scheduled self-powered mode but now it makes no sense what it is doing at various times throughout the day.

View attachment 416036

Never liked Balanced mode. Cost Savings fits me as I only want the battery to discharge during Peak periods, period. During Super Off-Peak (sometimes called Off-Peak) and Off-Peak (sometimes called Shoulder-Peak), I want the solar to charge the battery (till full) and then to provide power to the house and NEM to the grid. Only during Peak (which starts at 2pm for me) do I want the battery to provide power to the house and the solar feed the grid (as my tariffs are equal) until I hit the Reserve level (usually 40-50%). Then whatever is left in the solar panels (by then its between 4-7pm) can feed the house and then the NEM input comes back to me from the grid.

But everyone has a different requirement from their grid operator. My TOU setup simply merits use of the battery into the house during Peak periods.

 

[Frankman60]

I have only been using TBC Cost Savings mode since my Powerwalls updated to 1.37.1 a few days ago. Today I was watching the Power Flow and noticed that during Off-Peak the PWs were discharging a small amount to power the house (around 200 watts) even though Solar was exporting to the grid as well as powering the house. I only have Peak and Off Peak set up (no shoulder period) and the time this was happening was definitely not Peak. The PWs were at 100 percent charged at the time. Has anyone else noticed this? I have been using TBC Cost Savings since the PWs were installed a few weeks ago and I have been watching the power flows every day.

 

[NinjaVece]

I have only been using TBC Cost Savings mode since my Powerwalls updated to 1.37.1 a few days ago. Today I was watching the Power Flow and noticed that during Off-Peak the PWs were discharging a small amount to power the house (around 200 watts) even though Solar was exporting to the grid as well as powering the house. I only have Peak and Off Peak set up (no shoulder period) and the time this was happening was definitely not Peak. The PWs were at 100 percent charged at the time. Has anyone else noticed this? I have been using TBC Cost Savings since the PWs were installed a few weeks ago and I have been watching the power flows every day.

I believe these small bursts are housekeeping for the PW2 to maintain sync and the like. Its been known to occur for a long time. As long as the input is 100-200 watts, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[SoundDaTrumpet]

It's been a year since I tried Cost Saving mode. At that time, Cost Saving was doing even worse weird stuff, but I think it's time to give it a try again. I think I will change it Friday night and see how it goes for the next week.

@miimura I have been using balanced for two months. After updating to 1.37.1, for the first time, this morning I discovered the Powerwalls discharging through the night. With 1.37.1 the TBC behaves self-powered in off-peak and shoulders periods, and aggressive cost-savings during peak hours. I think TBC Balanced is best for NEM 2.0 who are paying Non-Bypassable Charges (NBCs). I will give it some time to fully characterize this behavior before switching to TBC Cost Savings.

On a separate thought, to avoid NBCs when charging an EV, it may be smart for the Powerwall system to monitor the EV charging circuit. This will provide the option to avoid NBCs by being self-powered for EV charging.