12/6/19 Tesla Has Returned FUSC to the Used Cars They Offer... Sort of.

[Fredneck]

I don't know all the details, but what I've read before is that in early 2017 they recognized that it was going to cost them too much money down the road, so they changed FUSC from lifetime of the car, to the first owner. I believe the earlier cars are grandfathered in to always have that FUSC. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

When people talk about 3rd party sales not conveying FUSC, I believe they mean for the cars after early 2017 where it does not convey with the car. But if you buy the used car from Tesla, they will re-up the FUSC on those cars. So they aren't really taking anything away, they are giving.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I don't know all the details, but what I've read before is that in early 2017 they recognized that it was going to cost them too much money down the road, so they changed FUSC from lifetime of the car, to the first owner. I believe the earlier cars are grandfathered in to always have that FUSC. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

When people talk about 3rd party sales not conveying FUSC, I believe they mean for the cars after early 2017 where it does not convey with the car. But if you buy the used car from Tesla, they will re-up the FUSC on those cars. So they aren't really taking anything away, they are giving.

Actually, they made the announcement in late 2016 that free Supercharging was going away. They extended the deadline for purchases through mid-January 2017 and then free Supercharging ended. Many cars sold in the first few months of 2017 didn't get any free Supercharging originally. Later in 2017, Tesla brought back the free Supercharging (non-transferrable) and retroactively gave it to cars that didn't get any free Supercharging in early 2017.

Cars sold before 2017 did have free, transferrable Supercharging for life. The problem many are discovering is that Tesla removed that from some cars, including many 2016 and older cars which should've had it for the life of the car.

 

[sd_tom]

as posters above said.. tesla has been, since August 2019.. removing FUSC on all model years in their own used inventory. for example, i bought a 2016 90D two months ago, from tesla, and i have pay per use supercharging.

I don't know all the details, but

 

[Ostrichsak]

Just an article:

Tesla removes 'free unlimited Supercharging' from its used cars - Electrek

No, this article echoes exactly what I said: used cars bought DIRECTLY FROM TESLA were not including FUSC for a period. This says NOTHING about used cars bought from other independent dealers or private parties.

Fun exercise: do a quick Ctrl-F of that article and you'll find that it makes not a single reference to the word "dealership" or "private party" to prove my point. Instead, it's an article that backs up what I saying earlier and talks to ONLY used cars sold by Tesla. Nobody else.

This is a massive problem with these forums is that someone will misinterpret something they read and then post it elsewhere with zero backing and others take it as fact until it gets parroted into existence.

Which goes back to my point: people keep posting misinformation as it applies to the sale of FUSC cars as fact and it gets spread around as such when it's not accurate.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Exactly what I said, there is never official communications from Tesla when they screw customers. Tesla has amazing policies and awesome customer service and benefits, it's the random "@ tesla"'s (to use your vernacular) who are screwing customers, but as long as Tesla doesn't publicly acknowledge it, the problem doesn't exist, right?

And in this case, the story you're sticking with is that some customer service employee just made a policy about removing supercharging from vehicles sold by dealers, right? Why, according to you, do you think they would do that?

No, the story I'm sticking with is that Tesla HAS a policy and some random rep incorrectly addressing a single Tesla customer doesn't effectively change that policy.

 

[Ostrichsak]

Let's end this thread... If Tesla purchases a vehicle and opts to sell it used, they can change or revive any option they want. If the original vehicle said..."unlimited charging for the life of the vehicle" and Tesla purchased it, they have every legal right to sell it with any warranty or lack thereof that they choose. There is no binding contract between a new buyer and Tesla for a used vehicle unless the terms of that contract state otherwise. The only exception is a manufacturer's warranty, that may be subject to State Law. Get over it and, again, get solar.

You're just trying to be difficult. Getting solar is your overarching point and it has zero bearing on this conversation.

 

[whitex]

No, the story I'm sticking with is that Tesla HAS a policy and some random rep incorrectly addressing a single Tesla customer doesn't effectively change that policy.

Great, can you point me to any official Tesla communication that yellow screens are covered? Also, what (according to you) is the correct way to escalate if an employee denies the screen is under warranty, or when Tesla lawyers in arbitration argue that the yellowing is not covered?

 

[Ostrichsak]

Great, can you point me to any official Tesla communication that yellow screens are covered? Also, what (according to you) is the correct way to escalate if an employee denies the screen is under warranty, or when Tesla lawyers in arbitration argue that the yellowing is not covered?

There's no way they would have spelled out specifically "Tesla will cover all yellowing of screens" because up until recently it wasn't a known-issue. They had no way of knowing what exactly would fail over the years and how it would fail or they would address it before building the cars. This is sort of the agreement to being "beta testers" in a sense for car manufactures. They can't possibly log the miles in alpha testing that hundreds of thousands of customers will over the years so they try to catch the glaring issues in alpha testing and give us a product that's about 90% or so and promise to fix anything else that breaks, also promising us that parts are manufacture and assembled or installed properly. It's an agreement we all enter into basically with a new car (or warrantied used car) purchase.

The biggest problem you're facing is what you yourself are also guilty of: a community spreading misinformation so much that it's become gospel. It's widely known that Tesla employees frequent these forums. So if enough people are saying "well, I don't think they'll cover a yellow display under warranty" guess what.... that's something some employees could use to try to deny repair. Or what could also be likely based on the complete lack of training I've seen; they might actually be Googling answers and coming across this stuff passed out as statement of fact. I wish I were kidding.

Its pretty simple: was your screen yellow when you bought it? Of course not. This needs to be repaired or replaced under warranty. Full stop. That's what SHOULD be done and that's the agreement you and Tesla entered into when you purchased the vehicle and Tesla agreed to replace/repair broken parts for a given period of time/miles.

As to escalating your issue... lots of luck there. This has been my single biggest complaint with Tesla is their utter and complete lack of customer service. Namely I can't call anyone directly and hold them personally accountable for my problems being resolved. This is by design and, as long as Tesla continues selling cars, they really don't seem to care.

For all of the innovation and as amazing as their cars are their customer service is equally awful. The likes of which we've never seen from a company of this level. It's crazy to me that they're getting away with it too. Most of the threads on here eventually devolve into some sort of nightmarish interaction with Tesla "customer service" (an oxymoron if I've ever seen one) and handfuls of Tesla fanbois defending whatever the atrocious behavior is as acceptable for one reason or another.

As long as that sort of thing continues we'll never see an improvement. It's going to take a massive revolt from existing customers combined with a significant downturn in new car sales for Tesla to even notice. Elon said a year ago that they knew the customer service was bad and they were working on it. One year later and it's actually gotten worse according to most people on this forum and especially in my region where the number of "customer service" employees has drastically gone down.

 

[whitex]

The biggest problem you're facing is what you yourself are also guilty of: a community spreading misinformation so much that it's become gospel. It's widely known that Tesla employees frequent these forums. So if enough people are saying "well, I don't think they'll cover a yellow display under warranty"

I am not sharing my opinion of what I think they will cover or not, I'm sharing what Tesla did not cover under warranty when I brought it in - instead they invoiced the treatment as goodwill (and refused to change it to warranty when I pointed out that it might be a mistake). Goodwill as per their own official documentation, has no warranty whatsoever - something also confirmed when I asked the service employee. All facts, no opinions.

OK, now here is my option: I don't think all the employees are making the same mistake as it is very unlikely. I believe billing it as goodwill is a corporate mandate to avoid warranty obligations.

guess what.... that's something some employees could use to try to deny repair. Or what could also be likely based on the complete lack of training I've seen; they might actually be Googling answers and coming across this stuff passed out as statement of fact. I wish I were kidding.

Start a thread that everyone who's had a yellow screen gets a free powerwall. See if it works.

Its pretty simple: was your screen yellow when you bought it? Of course not. This needs to be repaired or replaced under warranty. Full stop. That's what SHOULD be done and that's the agreement you and Tesla entered into when you purchased the vehicle and Tesla agreed to replace/repair broken parts for a given period of time/miles.

As to escalating your issue... lots of luck there. This has been my single biggest complaint with Tesla is their utter and complete lack of customer service. Namely I can't call anyone directly and hold them personally accountable for my problems being resolved. This is by design and, as long as Tesla continues selling cars, they really don't seem to care.

For all of the innovation and as amazing as their cars are their customer service is equally awful. The likes of which we've never seen from a company of this level. It's crazy to me that they're getting away with it too. Most of the threads on here eventually devolve into some sort of nightmarish interaction with Tesla "customer service" (an oxymoron if I've ever seen one) and handfuls of Tesla fanbois defending whatever the atrocious behavior is as acceptable for one reason or another.

As long as that sort of thing continues we'll never see an improvement. It's going to take a massive revolt from existing customers combined with a significant downturn in new car sales for Tesla to even notice. Elon said a year ago that they knew the customer service was bad and they were working on it. One year later and it's actually gotten worse according to most people on this forum and especially in my region where the number of "customer service" employees has drastically gone down.

If a company has a great policy but employees are not following it, and there is no way to escalate, then the company policy is irrelevant. Imagine a company which offers you an amazing salary, but the payroll department is paying you minimum wage and you have no way to escalate or remedy this. Will you claim you're getting paid an amazing salary because the company told you so?

 

[Ostrichsak]

I am not sharing my opinion of what I think they will cover or not, I'm sharing what Tesla did not cover under warranty when I brought it in - instead they invoiced the treatment as goodwill (and refused to change it to warranty when I pointed out that it might be a mistake). Goodwill as per their own official documentation, has no warranty whatsoever - something also confirmed when I asked the service employee. All facts, no opinions.
View attachment 486253

OK, now here is my option: I don't think all the employees are making the same mistake as it is very unlikely. I believe billing it as goodwill is a corporate mandate to avoid warranty obligations.


Start a thread that everyone who's had a yellow screen gets a free powerwall. See if it works.



If a company has a great policy but employees are not following it, and there is no way to escalate, then the company policy is irrelevant. Imagine a company which offers you an amazing salary, but the payroll department is paying you minimum wage and you have no way to escalate or remedy this. Will you claim you're getting paid an amazing salary because the company told you so?

Wait... so you got your screen fixed for $0 and you're complaining over the semantics they used to invoice it? You made it sound like you were denied warranty and still had a yellow screen that Tesla refused to fix. Stop wasting our time.

 

[whitex]

Wait... so you got your screen fixed for $0 and you're complaining over the semantics they used to invoice it? You made it sound like you were denied warranty and still had a yellow screen that Tesla refused to fix. Stop wasting our time.

I'm not sure why you see to have failed to see the distinction. Tesla did the UV treatment on my 1 year old car $100K car for free, however they were very clear they are doing it as goodwill, not warranty, and that it means the treatment is not warrantied if the problem was to come back.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I'm not sure why you see to have failed to see the distinction. Tesla did the UV treatment on my 1 year old car $100K car for free, however they were very clear they are doing it as goodwill, not warranty, and that it means the treatment is not warrantied if the problem was to come back.

That's not what that means.

 

[whitex]

That's not what that means.

That is how Tesla employees read it, which is all that matters. Also consistent with how other companies treat good will type repairs. Go try to find in the Tesla warranty terms how long a fix is warrantied for, and you won't. You will find how long a fix you pay for is warrantied, or even how long original warranty fixes are warrantied for, but not how long goodwill fixes are warrantied, because they are not.

 

[Ostrichsak]

That is how Tesla employees read it, which is all that matters. Also consistent with how other companies treat good will type repairs. Go try to find in the Tesla warranty terms how long a fix is warrantied for, and you won't. You will find how long a fix you pay for is warrantied, or even how long original warranty fixes are warrantied for, but not how long goodwill fixes are warrantied, because they are not.

They're not warrantying the fix, they're warrantying the part itself. This means that, so long as the car is still under warranty, if it yellows or otherwise fails again they're obligated to fix it... regardless of what verbiage the slap on the invoice for internal cost processing. Your car was still fixed for free and you're on this forum making it sound like you're driving around with a yellow screen and can't get them to fix it for you which simply isn't the case.

Generally, when a car manufacture's service center fixes something out-of-warranty or otherwise not covered by warranty for free the do it out of goodwill. In other words, it normally wouldn't be covered but they want to earn good favor for you for whatever reason and are eating the cost outside of warranty coverage. Why Tesla chose to label your repair goodwill is beyond me. Than again, if you want me to try to apply logic to half of the crap Tesla service does I will fail miserably.

The important point is that your car was fixed for free so why are you wasting your time posting anything negative about it? There's tens of thousands of people out there who simply can't get their cars fixed under legitimate warranty conditions who have a legitimate gripe but if people like you are hogging bandwidth to complain about the semantics used when fixing your car for free it's hard for them to get a voice. Lots of crying wolf going on around these Tesla parts.

 

[whitex]

Why Tesla chose to label your repair goodwill is beyond me.

It is obviously done intentionally for a reason since they refuse to label it differently even when customers (like me) ask. Just because you can't think of a reason, doesn't mean there isn't one. So, here is one simple possible explanation: by labeling it goodwill Tesla wants to avoid any legal obligation to repair your screen, should it affect their bottom line too much, by either direct cost of fixing or simply because it would tie up service centers from delivering more cars for example. By labeling it good will, customers are at the mercy of their good will at the time, no legal recourse.

The important point is that your car was fixed for free so why are you wasting your time posting anything negative about it?

Do you think Tesla would let me drive off in a new P100D without signing a lease as long as I gave them the first payment and classify that as goodwill payment? You know, like you said, they got payment for this month so why worry about the future? I probably will give them more payments, just like they probably will re-apply the fix, but no legal obligation.

 

[Ostrichsak]

It is obviously done intentionally for a reason since they refuse to label it differently even when customers (like me) ask. Just because you can't think of a reason, doesn't mean there isn't one. So, here is one simple possible explanation: by labeling it goodwill Tesla wants to avoid any legal obligation to repair your screen, should it affect their bottom line too much, by either direct cost of fixing or simply because it would tie up service centers from delivering more cars for example. By labeling it good will, customers are at the mercy of their good will at the time, no legal recourse.


Do you think Tesla would let me drive off in a new P100D without signing a lease as long as I gave them the first payment and classify that as goodwill payment? You know, like you said, they got payment for this month so why worry about the future? I probably will give them more payments, just like they probably will re-apply the fix, but no legal obligation.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Like I said, they likely labeled it differently for internal billing & job code reasons. None of which concern you so who cares? It has zero legal implications. None.

Seriously dude, in the grand scheme of things your "problem" isn't even on the radar. You need to take a deep breath, be thankful they fixed it for you for free (regardless of what the invoice reads) and hope it doesn't fail again. If it does within the warranty period just have them fix it. You're WAY overthinking this.

People like me already have TONS of problems dealing with Tesla with stuff that isn't even fixed yet so it's a bit frustrating that people like you are inventing reasons to be outraged.

 

[whitex]

Seriously dude, in the grand scheme of things your "problem" isn't even on the radar. You need to take a deep breath, be thankful they fixed it for you for free (regardless of what the invoice reads) and hope it doesn't fail again.

How sad that Tesla product is such where customer should be thankful they fix a $100K purchase within a year of use, and have to hope nothing else breaks.

People like me already have TONS of problems dealing with Tesla with stuff that isn't even fixed yet so it's a bit frustrating that people like you are inventing reasons to be outraged.

Yea, all problems are relative. I bet your problems seem like unimportant first world problems to many people too, doesn't make you feel any better, or feel like your problems don't matter?

 

[Fredneck]

Wait... so you got your screen fixed for $0 and you're complaining over the semantics they used to invoice it? You made it sound like you were denied warranty and still had a yellow screen that Tesla refused to fix. Stop wasting our time.

Someone got their yellow screen fixed but it wasn't considered a warranty item the first time, so they are concerned that if it returns they won't fix it the second or third or fourth time... and you make it sound like him posting about it here impacts you somehow. Stop wasting our time.