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$12K Battery replacement option

Discussion in 'Roadster' started by malcolm, Jan 17, 2009.

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  1. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    Another thing yo consider is what happens if you no longer have the car after a few years?
    Say it gets totalled in an accident? Do you lose out?

    I don't think this battery replacement deals is as good for the customer as it is for Tesla.
     
  2. Dragon

    Dragon Member

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    Yeah, you're right. What's with this scenario: You used performance mode too often and the battery is down to 10% of its original capacity after 6 years or even breaks down to the point you can't use the car. Will you have to buy a new one and then get another one 1 year later?

    I'm getting convinced that buying the option is a really bad idea.
    On the other side, there is the possibility that with the option in 7 years you could get the new hyperloaded ultrapowered battery, which otherwise would cost 25.000 $.
     
  3. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Very few people keep cars more than 7 years so that's something to consider too. More than likely, people will just get the new model in 7 or 8 years with whatever newer features are out then. Everyone is different though of course. I think the battery option is more for a piece of mind than anything.
     
  4. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    #24 doug, Dec 26, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2010
    The timing for when they introduced it certainly was unfortunate, but probably not coincidental. At that time they were in a tough financial spot. An extra 12K for something you don't need to deliver on for 7 years is great when you really need cash in the short term.

    Do we know how many actually got it? The only ones I know of are Elon and Jason Calacanis.
     
  5. cinergi

    cinergi Active Member

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    You should have an extra 90 days to decide on the extended warranty (and I THINK that applies to the battery option, too -- would need to check).

    I wanted to do the extended warranty, especially since it's transferrable (A big selling point I'd imagine). I haven't yet for budgetary reasons (and I'm running out of time ...)
    I won't do the battery pack. I don't plan on having the Roadster that long (I hope that my exclusive car will be the Model S).
     
  6. zack

    zack Member

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    #26 zack, Dec 26, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
    Edited:

    I had posted a complaint here about receiving misinformation about what year I could take my tax credit (turns out you can only take it the year you receive the title to the car). I'm taking that complaint back... Tesla has gone way out of their way to make it up to me, and I couldn't be happier. Yay Tesla! 8^D
     
  7. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    Some of the used cars that sold on ebay had the extra battery option listed, so I think there are a few that did get that option. Exactly how many, only Tesla knows.
     
  8. tomsax

    tomsax Member

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    I haven't read the agreement, but I believe if you need/want a battery early then you pay pro-rated penalty and if you take it after the 7-year mark they give you a pro-rated refund.
     
  9. benji4

    benji4 Roadster 2.5 #0476

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    #29 benji4, Dec 27, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2010
    That's correct, I was told by Tesla you will pay a $2,000 premium for each year you exercise the agreement early. You’ll earn a $1,000 discount for each year past 7 years that you delay replacement. Hey, does that mean if you wait more than 19 years to replace it they'll actually give you the whole $12,000 + more back, and you get a new battery? Hmmm, maybe it isn't such a bad deal after all! Elon will be on Mars by then so I guess it wasn't that hard for him to come up with a deal like that!
     
  10. Iz

    Iz EVs are here to stay

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    In addition to prospects for lower battery costs there should be new battery types, perhaps using L-air. For those who took delivery in 2008 however it's about 4 more years.
     
  11. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Can you post here a scan of the battery agreement? In the past is was a very vague document.

    Thanks
     
  12. 7racer

    7racer Member

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    I didn't purchase it and I can't click on it to see the official document.
    You probably already have seen the "?" pop up when you click on it. Is there anyplace else to look to see the official agreement?
    [​IMG]
     
  13. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    So the iffy part is "which battery"? Today's roadster has 2006 battery technology, or will it be 2011/2014/2019 technology? I'm guessing Tesla "locks in" on a certain year battery and sticks with it till the next seachange. The Model S is probably using 2011 battery tech and your seven to ten year battery life might end on that battery or perhaps the next iteration.

    Since cells get 8% better every year, this is a very important question. Which battery?

    Is it in the fine print?
     
  14. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    The wording in that battery agreement is ambiguous, so I asked my salesman while I was buying my Roadster. What he told me was that the $12,000 (paid now) is the full price of a new pack delivered in seven years. He also told me that there is a pro-rated additional fee if you want the new pack sooner. I assumed, but did not ask, that it would be the same battery technology as is in the car now, since a different technology would presumably require other changes in the control circuitry as well, though I don't know that for a fact. A newer technology might cost more as well.

    I suggested to him that Tesla has set this price based on their expectation that the replacement battery would probably cost them less than this, and that buying the replacement agreement is essentially betting against Tesla's assessment of future battery costs. He agreed and advised me not to buy the agreement unless I was really worried about the battery.

    If something were to go wrong and I needed a new battery, I could afford to buy one, so I'm betting that Tesla is right, and I'm not buying the agreement.
     
  15. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Has anyone seen drop in the Roadster's battery replacement cost in three years?
    The $12K is possibly a bet that Tesla is making that their cost will drop but there is no guarantee that they will drop prices for their customers.

    Another thing worth mentioning is Tesla started offering the early battery replacement deal when there were hurting for cash. Money now for something later is another bet they are making, even if battery costs did not drop.
     
  16. Slackjaw

    Slackjaw Member

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    #36 Slackjaw, Jul 11, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2011
    This is an interesting position to take, but the problem is that [in my opinion] we're not likely to see 3rd party "Tesla Roadster compatible" batteries in 5-7 years when these agreements mature. So this will leave TM in the position that they might be able to supply replacement batteries for less than $12K, but why would they? My bet is that the batteries will come down in price and will be costing TM less than $12K to make, and they'll charge $15K-$20K to people who did not take the battery deal.

    As vfx also points out, on top of the battery price bet, you are basically giving TM a seven year interest free loan of $12K which, depending on their creditworthiness at any particular time, may be worth a lot more to them than $12K.

    Incidentally, we didn't take the battery deal or the extended warranty yet, but we've only had our Roadster a few weeks.

    P.S. What if you took the deal, but after 7 years your battery is still at 85% capacity and you don't mind about that 15%? I wonder if you can defer the delivery of the replacement battery. That's what I would want to do I think; i.e. wait till the battery is down to 60% or something, before replacing it. It will probably depend upon TM's manufacturing capability at that point, and they may jump at the chance to wait even longer.
     
  17. mwg

    mwg Member

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    The battery replacement agreement specifies battery replacement up to ten years after the date of sale. Tesla issues the current owner a refund of $1,000 for each full year beyond the 7th anniversary of the date of sale until the battery is replaced. If a battery is replaced sooner than the 7 year mark, they charge $2,000 for every full year prior.
     
  18. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    So in the first year you could get a replacement battery for $26K?
     
  19. Ardie

    Ardie Member

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    I find it difficult to understand why one would want to order a battery today, for delivery 7 years from now.
    After all, it would be similar to ordering a new engine for your car today, or disk drive for your computer today, for delivery 7 years from now.
    Technology marches too fast for that kind of commitment.

    Seven years from now:
    * would I still own that car in 7 years?
    * would it actually need a new battery?
    * would I want to keep my 7-year old car for another 7 years?

    I think I'd rather park the money in a bond somewhere (let's say a green municipal power company bond), and wait 7 years.
    The odds are pretty good that I'll want to trade it in for a new 2018 Tesla.
    But if not, I can always cash the bond and get a new battery when I feel I need one.

    Ardie
     
  20. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I didn't take the deal, for all the reasons cited above.

    My only concern is whether the price really will come down. Sure the batteries will be cheaper, but there won't be any economies of scale. The packs are pretty much hand-built, and they'll probably be building fewer Roadster packs than they are now. Tesla is going to be concentrating their main efforts elsewhere.

    On the positive side, they have to take old packs out of the cars. There will be lots of perfectly good structure, cooling systems, and perhaps even electronics remaining after the batteries are recycled. They could refurbish the old packs with new batteries and offer them at a discounted price.
     

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