2018 Model S "oil in coolant"

[StephWilliams]

We have a strange problem with our 2018 Model S 100D, 75 000 km, extended warranty.

HV battery was replaced under warranty, car was in service from late July to late August

In september we got a "Low coolant" alert and brought car in to local service centre.

They had the car from beginning of October to yesterday, November 17th.

Service tells us there seems to be oil in the coolant, but no cross contamination in the drive units or air conditioning.

They tell me they sent the contaminated coolant to a "lab" that confirmed it was "motor oil" but will not tell us the name of the lab or show us the report.

Service denies the possibility that the "oil" in the coolant may be related to the HV battery that was changed only a few weeks before.

They even attributed the problem to "sabotage" (!!).

Where it gets really peculiar is that they have not repaired the car, not provided an estimate of cost to repair, but did force us to pay for the diagnostic work and also forced us to take back the vehicle with the "Low coolant" alarm still there and a still contaminated coolant system.

The service "manager" told us it may be safe to drive short distances, but that's about it.

We are basically on our own with this problem.

We are not car mechanics, just 2 busy parents with 3 kids that had never before purchased such an expensive car.

Have any of you had a similar experience and what is the solution?

 

[KalJoMoS]

Is the Tesla service centre the only source for your maintenance? If they refuse to service it then can’t you find independent service and have the coolant flushed? It will reset the system and your alert should dissappare. It’s a shame that they refuse to fix it. If you have a leaking system then the oil in the motors will also be affected. By flushing old coolant and settings the levels rigth again allows you to monitor the system for any leaks.

 

[David Harvey]

Hello StephWilliams,

I was sorry to hear about your most unusual problem, the like of which I have not heard of before. It raises lots of questions:

1. If Tesla don't know how to repair it, who can they recommend?
2. If your extended warranty is with someone other than Tesla, what do they recommend?
3. Has your car ever been serviced by anyone other than Tesla?
4. Have you saved and/or printed copies of your Tesla service records AND service app exchanges? (Make sure you do so as a matter of urgency!)
5. Is there another Service Centre within a reasonable travelling distance?

Here are my thoughts:

1. My primary thought is that the service personnel that you have been dealing with do not have sufficient experience or knowledge to solve the problem and/or they are trying to fob you off rather than do the correct thing, namely refer upwards to a more senior engineer.
2. I cannot understand why they did not simply flush out the contaminated coolant and replace it with the correct fluid and ask you to pay for that.
3. To suggest sabotage (without evidence) is disgraceful and highlights the inadequacies of the people you have been speaking to.
4. Much more likely than sabotage is that when the battery was being changed that someone at Tesla made a serious error by topping up the coolant with the incorrect fluid.
5. If you cannot take the car to another Service Centre then you will have to escalate your complaint to senior management.
6. It is in both yours and Tesla's interests that they fix the problem sooner rather than later as by driving the car in its current state presents the risk of voiding the remaining warranty on the HV battery and the drive unit.
7. As you have paid Tesla a diagnostic fee then if it included the oil analysis, I think you should be able to see the report which you have funded.

Good luck and please keep us posted.

 

[StephWilliams]

Thank you for your replies. Here is some additional info.

The Montreal service center is where we usually have all our service done and where we purchased both the car and the 4 year Tesla extended warranty. They are the ones that sent us home with a broken car and no plan.

The only others to touch the car are an independent garage that changes tires, brake pads and discs, but nothing else.

The next closest service center is Laval, and this is where, when the HV battery conked out, the car was towed as per Tesla policy, as it was the closest. Laval performed the HV battery change.

Montreal tells us they spoke with Laval and "confirmed" that they did not put oil in the coolant when they replaced the HV battery.

Montreal tells us they did attempt to flush the system with water, which did not remove the "oil".

Montreal also told us that using coolant system cleaners is not "Tesla approved" and will void the warranty.

We have repeatedly asked to speak to "senior management" but had trouble even getting to speak to the service "manager". He told us he would ask the senior manager to call us, and send us a repair estimate, after we left with the car.

We have still not spoken to "senior management", but did finally receive a repair estimate today, for 53 307.70$. They would replace "everything in the coolant system" from four 0.50$ 1005817-00-A hex bolts to both drive units but not the HV battery.

Our interpretation of what is going on is that by proposing "sabotage" as the diagnostic, Tesla comes out ahead as the Tesla warranty no longer covers these repairs or any other future problems with parts that are not changed with the 53 000$ repair, for example the HV battery.

Has anyone else successfully had their car repaired when faced with this "sabotage" diagnostic strategy?

 

[SageBrush]

Send some coolant off to a diagnostic lab of your choice. Just make sure you get a quantified amount of contaminants.

By the way, at least some Tesla models do use oil. You may wish to track down details to sort out whether the HV battery swap may have lead to inadvertent contamination.

 

[cbdream99]

Assuming no one else touched the vehicle ... Can Tesla proves the coolant has not been contaminated in the first place, is every bottle they put in is sealed and never a case mixed with any half opened bottle? Or have they inspect all the coolant bottles in their shop? I will challenge them in court.

 

[David Harvey]

Has anyone else successfully had their car repaired when faced with this "sabotage" diagnostic strategy?

If you go down the sabotage route then presumably you can involve your insurance company. Do you have any legal advice cover with any of your insurance policies? Have they provided (and can you share with us) a breakdown of the $53k estimate?

 

[StephWilliams]

Thank you, the insurance company is a good lead. We had checked if they provided legal advice and the answer is no, but they may cover "sabotage" damage, or at least be ready to duke it out with Tesla...

I have attached the 9 page invoice for 53000$, which does include the HV battery (I had not noticed in the first reading)

We also finally got a call from the head of the Service Centre yesterday, who was initially adamant that the provided invoice was the only "Tesla approved" solution to the contaminated coolant. We offered to accept a simpler alternative, that is for them to use a cleaning product to remove the contamination and give us a letter saying the powertrain and extended warranties on all affected parts remain valid. We stressed the fact that Tesla worked on the cooling system only a few days before the contamination problem was discovered, that no one else worked on the vehicle, and that cleaning the system + honouring the warranties is a win-win compared to the alternatives. He said he would get back to us in a day or 2.

PS I decided to take a look at the coolant reservoir myself and it is not super easy to access, 3 large plastic pieces need to be removed, making the "sabotage" hypothesis even more far-fetched. The coolant is milky green and there are large brown stains on the tank walls.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Wow, I think your case is setting a new world record for Tesla screwing a customer! It's quite frankly unbelievable that any car company could be so evil and yet so believable from my own experience with Tesla, which is why I am in the process of selling my Tesla's and never buying another one.

"Service tells us there seems to be oil in the coolant, but no cross contamination in the drive units or air conditioning."

"They would replace "everything in the coolant system" from four 0.50$ 1005817-00-A hex bolts to both drive units but not the HV battery."

How in the world do these 2 statements above make sense?? No contamination in the drive units, yet you must replace your drive units because of contamination?? LOL. What a stupid lie. At least they could learn to lie better at a team.

Let's be clear, there's only one cooling system in these vehicles with one radiator where all the coolant flows. So if the coolant gets contaminated, then everything gets contaminated: Both drive units (inverter and motors are both cooled by the coolant), battery, HVAC system, and onboard charger.

There is plenty of opportunity for cross contamination in the drive units due the drive units having oil and coolant close by, just like you have in an ICE car. In essence, these drive units have the same issues as head gaskets in ICE cars. In addition, there are heat exchangers that are little radiators that flow coolant and oil through them to cool the oil. Watch a YT video of a drive unit breakdown to see how these drive units are far from simple, and blows out the lie that just because there is only 1 moving part the motor there's so much less to fail. There's ton to fail, and it absolutely does fail. My rear inverter failed after 5K and left me stranded on the side of the road at midnight in a $100K car only 8 months old.

I think you are on the right track that Tesla is trying to cover a leak in the drive units (that should be covered under warranty) that is causing oil to go into the coolant by trying to charge you to replace both drive units.

I am huge car nut that works on all my cars for 40 years, including the scariest exotics, and my own Tesla's. So I can say with confidence, if someone put some oil in your coolant, and you flushed out the cooling system, and little bit of residual oil in the coolant is absolutely NO BIG DEAL! You can flush it out a couple of times if you want to be anal about it. This is not like the oil system that is used for lubrication being contaminated. The cooling system just cools things, and a tiny little bit of oil is not going to affect anything in the cooling system.

If I were you, I would be prepared to get a lawyer and also contact the media. Tesla made a big splash in the news telling a UK owner they weren't going to cover their $21K battery replacement because they foolishly used their car while it was raining in Scotland, which it does just about every day. I lived there for a while, so I know.

You can also take out a sample of the coolant and send it to a company like Blackstone to get them to analyze. Contact them first from their website to see if they are willing the analyze what it going to be 99.99% coolant because normally they analyze oil and tell you if it has coolant, which is the other way around. I am thinking they would be happy to do that for you. And they could potentially give identifying information about the oil to see if it matches what is put into the drive units.

 

[StephWilliams]

Thank you for all the info and suggestions.

Just to be clear, the repair estimate does in fact include changing the HV battery.

Tesla tells us that the "Lab report" that they refuse to share with us shows the contaminant is "motor oil" that they do not have in their shop.

We contacted Blackstone today, and they told us they cannot distinguish between internal combustion motor oil and the type of oil used in Tesla electric motors when they test for oil contamination in coolant.

We also contacted an independent electric vehicle repair centre with a lot of experience servicing Teslas, and they proposed an "in depth cleaning" of the cooling system that would cost 3-5000$ due to the many hours of labour involved. This may get our vehicle back on the road without replacing every single part in the coolant loops, but would still leave us with invalidated basic and extended warranties on all these expensive parts.

We are still waiting for the head of the Service Centre to come back to us, hoping to get our vehicle functioning again and with valid warranties.

Any other suggestions welcome...

 

[TLLMRRJ]

Just to be clear, the repair estimate does in fact include changing the HV battery.

I still can't see the line item for a new HV battery on your estimate. Which line item?

 

[dannycamps]

Montreal tells us they spoke with Laval and "confirmed" that they did not put oil in the coolant when they replaced the HV battery.

The coolant loop is a sealed system. If they did not put oil in the coolant (no way to verify that), and if there is a low coolant alert (and oil in the coolant), it means there is a leak in the system somewhere - possibly in the drive unit where coolant and oil are close together. There is no way this is external sabotage given how difficult it is to access the coolant reservoir.

and give us a letter saying the powertrain and extended warranties on all affected parts remain valid

Be 100% sure to get it in writing from the service manager. Do not accept it verbally or from anyone else other than the service manager.

This is a unique situation for sure and I hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.

 

[TLLMRRJ]

There is no way this is external sabotage given how difficult it is to access the coolant reservoir.

He said Tesla was just in there replacing the HV battery, which requires draining and refilling the cooling system, so maybe they had some rookie accidentally add oil to the coolant. I see that sort of thing on "Just Rolled In" YouTube videos all the time!

 

[David Harvey]

Tesla tells us that the "Lab report" that they refuse to share with us shows the contaminant is "motor oil" that they do not have in their shop. We contacted Blackstone today, and they told us they cannot distinguish between internal combustion motor oil and the type of oil used in Tesla electric motors when they test for oil contamination in coolant.

This is unfortunate. If this case were to go to law then I reckon it will hinge upon the type of 'motor oil' in the coolant. I think it likely that a judge would require expert engineering evidence on exactly what of type of motor oil has contaminated the coolant. It would be good if a company could be tracked down that was capable of making this distinction which might be greatly assisted if they could also be supplied with a specimen of automatic transmission fluid that Tesla use in Canada. I used a company in the UK to analyse my gearbox fluid: Tesla Model S-Gearbox fluid test-090623.pdf

Tesla's workshop manual list the following gearbox fluids:

Front drive unit part number 1035000-00-F and earlier: Mobil SHC 629
Front drive unit part number 1035000-00-J and later: SK lubricant 212-B – quart (part number 1031106-00-A)
Front drive unit part number 1478100-XX-X and later: Lubricant, EDF2 (part number 1616951-00-A), or ATF-9. SK Lubricant 422313 (part number 1135241-00-A)
Rear drive unit (small and large): SK lubricant 212-B – quart (part number 1031106-00-A)
Rear drive unit (small and large): SK lubricant 212-B – drum (part number 1061469-00-A)

If you could prove that the contaminant is standard automatic transmission fluid used by Tesla then this would help in two ways;

1. It would suggest that (on the balance of probabilities) there has been an internal failure of a seal somewhere which should be repaired under warranty.
2. In the unlikely event of sabotage, it is more likely to have been by a Tesla employee or by some unauthorised person who Tesla should not have allowed access to the workshop.

 

[SageBrush]

if there is a low coolant alert (and oil in the coolant), it means there is a leak in the system somewhere - possibly in the drive unit where coolant and oil are close together.

If there is a leak, perhaps the amount of contamination will increase with time

 

[StephWilliams]

The HV battery is the first item on page 2.

If anyone knows of a lab that can distinguish between different types of oils we would be glad to hear of it.

Even if the oil is not a type used by Tesla, in our opinion it does not preclude the idea that a mistake was made when refilling the system.

The low coolant alert is present even though the coolant levels appear adequate...

 

[TLLMRRJ]

The HV battery is the first item on page 2.

If anyone knows of a lab that can distinguish between different types of oils we would be glad to hear of it.

Even if the oil is not a type used by Tesla, in our opinion it does not preclude the idea that a mistake was made when refilling the system.

The low coolant alert is present even though the coolant levels appear adequate...

What a ridiculous way to write a price on an estimate! No wonder I missed it.

0.0019675.00

 

[philip295]

Is it possible that when the brake pads were replaced, that someone tried to top up the brake fluid level, but poured it into the coolant tank?

 

[quickstrike12]

Is it possible that when the brake pads were replaced, that someone tried to top up the brake fluid level, but poured it into the coolant tank?

Yikes……after reading this entire thread this jumped out to me as a distinct possibility…..would seem a lab analysis of the coolant and type of oil would settle it. Hard to imagine a brake shop going t9 that much trouble to get to the cap and reservoir to “top it up” but it’s certainly not impossible either.

 

[cbdream99]

Yikes……after reading this entire thread this jumped out to me as a distinct possibility…..would seem a lab analysis of the coolant and type of oil would settle it. Hard to imagine a brake shop going t9 that much trouble to get to the cap and reservoir to “top it up” but it’s certainly not impossible either.

The brake reservoir and coolant reservoir are at different locations, size, color, and cap labels are very different. The coolant tank is also covered by more trim pieces, it will be a very remote possibility.. sabotage in this route is more likely.