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2019 Model X P100D no dual charger
- Thread starter MrTeaUSA
- Start date
He’s probably referring to the 72A charger no longer being available. They’re all 48A now. HPWC charging is still faster as the UMC is limited to 32A on a 14-50 outlet.
Your onboard charger converts AC to DC power. Superchargers and other fast chargers provide DC directly, bypassing onboard chargers. So no, you'll get the full charging rate at superchargers no matter what you have as an onboard charger.
I thought the Tesla public super charger are AC charger only since it use the same connector charger for the HPWC. But I could be wrong.
The Nissan Leaf use separate connector for direct DC current charger than home charger plug used.
The Nissan Leaf use separate connector for direct DC current charger than home charger plug used.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
You have a lot to learn grasshopper
(No offense just trying to be funny).Same plug. AC at home (and Destination charges as SSedan states) & DC while supercharging. They get routed differently.
Via: Is the Charging port DC or AC?
Not sure what your charging scenario is (need to charge during the day on weekends)? I have an older X (72A AC) but only charge at 32A starting at midnight when my rates are lower. Other car in garage need the other amps from our garage subpanel. Our next house will have a 100A subpanel in the garage.
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Just for clarity some businesses put in "destination chargers" which are HCWC and can have anything from 12-80amps available depending on how they are set up. Those are AC and you would be limited to 48amps.
Great Tesla car has one charger port only can do both AC and DC current. Better than Leaf.
I plan to run 80A breaker to HPWC charger which is what recommended. With the new model X car it only has 48 Amp charger on board. If I need a quick charge between couple hours,I would not be able to charge higher than 48 Amp? So there is not point to run bigger wires rated for 80A breaker since the car can only handle 48A for the HPWC. I am thinking wires rated 60 Amp breaker should be enough. Let me know if this is correct.
I plan to run 80A breaker to HPWC charger which is what recommended. With the new model X car it only has 48 Amp charger on board. If I need a quick charge between couple hours,I would not be able to charge higher than 48 Amp? So there is not point to run bigger wires rated for 80A breaker since the car can only handle 48A for the HPWC. I am thinking wires rated 60 Amp breaker should be enough. Let me know if this is correct.
You should know that the old style of UMC can deliver 40 amps from a 50 amp plug. Up-thread it said you can only get 32 amps from a UMC, that is for the second generation. The first generation can deliver 40 amps. So, an HPWC, for you, can only contribute 8 additional amps, that might give you around 4 extra miles of range per hour of charge
If you do go with a 1st gen UMC, instead of an HPWC, you might ask your electrician what 6-50 outlet costs vs a 14-50 outlet. Tesla makes a 6-50 adapter, and usually installing a 6-50 is cheaper, and a 6-50 is more common to welders and other 240v tools you may want to use in your garage, and you would have an additional adapter in your arsenal, all for less money.
Bill Price
Active Member
With a HPWC you can go with a 60 Amp breaker which would effectively let you charge @ 48 Amps. #6 copper wire would be adequate unless you have a run over 100 feet.
100' is about the theoretical max for your application, here is the math behind that statement ...
CM = (25*I*L)/V
CM = Circular Mils
I = Max Load Current
L = Length in Feet
V = Max voltage drop
Given that the max voltage drop should be 2% of supply or in this case 2.4 volts (120V on each 'hot' wire)
I = 60
L = 100
So the required CM = 26500
6 AWG is about 26251 (working backward would give V of 2.412)
In theory you should use AWG 4, in reality that circuit will never see 60A so AWG 6 is fine
scottf200
Well-Known Member
a) You need to ask yourself if you will ever have more than 1 electric car in the area that you subpanel will be. We have a 60 amp subpanel in our garage but we are charging two electric cars now at night so I have to turn them both down (lower amps).
b) You need to ask yourself if you will ever get a different car in the future that can charge faster and need more amps. What will 'tomorrows' cars be able to charge at.
The post December production Model X have a dual charger. Prior to that they had a triple charger. By this I mean that the rectifier unit has/had slots for three modules (circuit boards) rated at 24 amps each and all the slots were populated and enabled. 3 x 24 is 72 Amps and so the older X's charged at that rate (or, to be more precise, drew current from the mains at that rate). I don't know if the newer chargers have only two slots, or three slots with only two populated or three slots populated with one crippled but in any case only two modules are active and thus the maximum draw is 48 amps.
If you only ever intend to charge one Tesla at a time your reasonable options are
1)Mobile charger plugged into a NEMA 14-50R receptacle. Charge rate: 32 A
2)Wall charger with NEMA 14-50R plug. Charge rate: 40A
3)HPWC (hard wired). Charge Rate 48A
If you install an 80 A breaker the installer must set your HPWC to 60A max. which is more than your car can take and there is, therfore, no point in installing the bigger breaker unless you think you might buy another Tesla in the future and want to put another HPWC on the same circuit. If you think you are likely to to that then you might as well go all out and install an 100 A breaker. The maximum the circuit can deliver with a 100 A breaker is 80 A and that would be shared between the two HPWCs were both cars to be connected at the same time. Note that the actual sharing is not done by the master HPWC. It allocates current to the two vehicles and tells them how much they can draw. It is the vehicles themselves that determine how much current to take.
As to the AC/DC aspect of it all: All charging current comes from the grid. When you charge at home it is converted to DC by rectifier modules in the car. When you charge at a SC it is converted to DC by rectifier modules in the cabinets locate behind the fence at the charging station. There they can have many more than two or 3 modules working together and thus charge the car much faster.
If you only ever intend to charge one Tesla at a time your reasonable options are
1)Mobile charger plugged into a NEMA 14-50R receptacle. Charge rate: 32 A
2)Wall charger with NEMA 14-50R plug. Charge rate: 40A
3)HPWC (hard wired). Charge Rate 48A
If you install an 80 A breaker the installer must set your HPWC to 60A max. which is more than your car can take and there is, therfore, no point in installing the bigger breaker unless you think you might buy another Tesla in the future and want to put another HPWC on the same circuit. If you think you are likely to to that then you might as well go all out and install an 100 A breaker. The maximum the circuit can deliver with a 100 A breaker is 80 A and that would be shared between the two HPWCs were both cars to be connected at the same time. Note that the actual sharing is not done by the master HPWC. It allocates current to the two vehicles and tells them how much they can draw. It is the vehicles themselves that determine how much current to take.
As to the AC/DC aspect of it all: All charging current comes from the grid. When you charge at home it is converted to DC by rectifier modules in the car. When you charge at a SC it is converted to DC by rectifier modules in the cabinets locate behind the fence at the charging station. There they can have many more than two or 3 modules working together and thus charge the car much faster.
Thank you for posting this, it needs to be said more.
The bare minimum crowd is unfortunately the majority.
Wire really isn't that expensive and a little overkill now could save a lot later.
Clearly, you haven't bought any recently. Another aspect of it is that once you get larger than No. 6 it is really hard to pull and so your labor cost (or aggravation level) will go up dramatically. Yet another aspect is that NEC requires a lockable disconnect if the breaker is bigger than 60A. There is clearly a trade space here. I went the "they're pulling wire anyway - might as well max out" route and man, did it cost me (over $3000 as I recall - it was a long run so wound up using copper SE No. 1).
Yeah it's not like I pulled a 100amp circuit last summer........... Oh wait I did exactly that.
From memory 3gauge copper is $1.02 a foot need two of those and 8gauge ground was $.58. a foot.
Quick googling says $78 for a 100ft roll of 6gauge so let us say $.80 a foot.
So wire wise price is not that big a difference, yes conduit cost more per foot too when larger too. Most of the cost difference though is discretionary on the part of the electrician.
From memory 3gauge copper is $1.02 a foot need two of those and 8gauge ground was $.58. a foot.
Quick googling says $78 for a 100ft roll of 6gauge so let us say $.80 a foot.
So wire wise price is not that big a difference, yes conduit cost more per foot too when larger too. Most of the cost difference though is discretionary on the part of the electrician.
Thanks for your details explaination ajdelange. I understand a lot more regarding charging rate. In respond to your: 2)Wall charger with NEMA 14-50R plug. Charge rate: 40A. How do you get this rate as the only way to get 40A is from older first generation of UMC? The one comes with new car UMC is only max out at 32A?
I am disappointed that Tesla do not offer 64Amp charger on board as optional package.
I plan to order new Tesla Model X by June 30th of this year to get the Federal tax credit. I am think should I order an used Model X that has 60Amp on board charger.
I am disappointed that Tesla do not offer 64Amp charger on board as optional package.
I plan to order new Tesla Model X by June 30th of this year to get the Federal tax credit. I am think should I order an used Model X that has 60Amp on board charger.
There’s no such thing. They have come with 48A and 72A chargers.
scottf200
Well-Known Member
You should explain your Mon-Fri commutes/activities/scenario and your Sat-Sun activities/scenario. ie. miles travel, time at home, weekend time at home vs activities.
Those details will help you understand your electric miles needs at different times of the week and help others explain charging times/miles recovered.
Except that's not what the ratings are for. AWG 4 is rated for 60Amp PEAK, but only 48Amp CONTINUOUS. AWG 6 is rated for less than that, so using it would not be considered safe per code since the charger would draw 48Amp CONTINUOUS.
