2023 Model Y no USS discussion, incl. Discussion of Tesla Vision Firmware

[Dracaris]

Big disappointment with Tesla not Bing honest when they sold the car

Yup, pretty much. There was no noticeable disclosure of EAP's broken features until well after we had agreed to purchase EAP with the car, and they never disclosed that auto wipers don't work. We found that out by adding the issue to our first warranty service request for other minor issues, and they responded that non-working auto wipers is a known issue that will eventually be fixed in software. Eventually - just like the EAP features they sold us but have so far failed to deliver.

 

[E90alex]

They have been working on auto wipers for 6 years now and they still suck so I wouldn’t get my hopes too high on Tesla vision replacing USS anytime soon.

 

[Grrnmo]

Seriously - how do I use the cruise control without the wipers SCRAPING across the dry, perfectly clear windshield when cruise control is on after dark? Or at dawn? Or at dusk?

Is there a CRUISE CONTROL setting with no AI?

 

[E90alex]

Seriously - how do I use the cruise control without the wipers SCRAPING across the dry, perfectly clear windshield when cruise control is on after dark? Or at dawn? Or at dusk?

Is there a CRUISE CONTROL setting with no AI?

No

 

[LloydDobbler]

Yup, pretty much. There was no noticeable disclosure of EAP's broken features until well after we had agreed to purchase EAP with the car, and they never disclosed that auto wipers don't work. We found that out by adding the issue to our first warranty service request for other minor issues, and they responded that non-working auto wipers is a known issue that will eventually be fixed in software. Eventually - just like the EAP features they sold us but have so far failed to deliver.

Yep. This is a big point of frustration in our house (we purchased a new MYLR ~2 weeks ago). We're glad we didn't spring for FSD or even Enhanced Autopilot - but even without expecting to have autopark and summon, the Tesla Vision experience so far is underwhelming.

It snowed here last week for the first time this year, and the MYLR freaked out in the snow. It couldn't visualize road versus edge-of-road (even when the edges were plowed). It just told us to STOP whenever it saw snow.

And when we try to manually pull into our garage, the utter cacophany of beeps coming from the touchscreen warnings is almost unbearable. If continually tells us "STOP" when there's nothing near us.

So yeah. I didn't expect FSD to be something we'd necessarily need or want. But I was at least hoping for parity with our 2018 Toyota Highlander in terms of being able to help us not bump the front of it when we pull into our garage. Oh well.

 

[Grrnmo]

No

 

[ionsphere]

Yep. This is a big point of frustration in our house (we purchased a new MYLR ~2 weeks ago). We're glad we didn't spring for FSD or even Enhanced Autopilot - but even without expecting to have autopark and summon, the Tesla Vision experience so far is underwhelming.

It snowed here last week for the first time this year, and the MYLR freaked out in the snow. It couldn't visualize road versus edge-of-road (even when the edges were plowed). It just told us to STOP whenever it saw snow.

And when we try to manually pull into our garage, the utter cacophany of beeps coming from the touchscreen warnings is almost unbearable. If continually tells us "STOP" when there's nothing near us.

So yeah. I didn't expect FSD to be something we'd necessarily need or want. But I was at least hoping for parity with our 2018 Toyota Highlander in terms of being able to help us not bump the front of it when we pull into our garage. Oh well.

Yeah. I have a similar feeling with my previous Tucson Hyundai PHEV '22. It didn't have near the amount of technology for detecting objects around it but I found it much more usable both on the highway, local roads and especially for parking and parking lots with the overhead camera. That was truly helpful. It's hard for me to understand why Tesla can't have an overhead view because it's so good to orientate with that when you're getting into a parking spot.
I've been trying to figure out if it's simply that I'm not used to it yet, because I've only had my MY LR 23 about 6 weeks, or if the features on what I assume to be an inferior technology car, (Tucson) is actually more comfortable for me and ultimately better for that reason. I'm really hoping that over the next few months I become much more comfortable with the auto drive and value it for what it is. I'm still on my 3-month free FSD, but from what I can figure out I'm not going to miss it much when it runs out, because we will still have auto drive. I can't really see much that the FSD does that is functional enough to miss, that I would use. It would be different if it had more of the features originally advertised perhaps

 

[hmadsen]

Right now i dont think anywould would expect the Summon, Smart Summon and autopark features to ever be a part of the Vision only cars.

I wonder why Tesla does not just "give up" on those features and then reduce the price of the NOA and FSD packages as a response.

It seems so silly that they still ask the same silly high price for their "2 extra features" noa package, as they did when it was an actual "5 extra features" package.

I never really understood the reasoning behind having prices so high, that (my guess) 99%+ of Tesla owners would never buy those packages.

If they lowered the price to 1/4, i bet they would sell this package to more than 5 times as many people, as they do now, making their income from sale of this package more profitable. I mean, the software cost the same to develop, no matter if 1% or 20% bought it.

The FSD package i would currently not buy almost no matter what extra price, as here the only extra features you get, compared to noa package is autostop at red light and STOP signs.

The extra price for those 2 very small features i literally INSANE.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Yeah. I have a similar feeling with my previous Tucson Hyundai PHEV '22. It didn't have near the amount of technology for detecting objects around it but I found it much more usable both on the highway, local roads and especially for parking and parking lots with the overhead camera. That was truly helpful. It's hard for me to understand why Tesla can't have an overhead view because it's so good to orientate with that when you're getting into a parking spot.
I've been trying to figure out if it's simply that I'm not used to it yet, because I've only had my MY LR 23 about 6 weeks, or if the features on what I assume to be an inferior technology car, (Tucson) is actually more comfortable for me and ultimately better for that reason. I'm really hoping that over the next few months I become much more comfortable with the auto drive and value it for what it is. I'm still on my 3-month free FSD, but from what I can figure out I'm not going to miss it much when it runs out, because we will still have auto drive. I can't really see much that the FSD does that is functional enough to miss, that I would use. It would be different if it had more of the features originally advertised perhaps

There is no low bumper camera in the front nor low front facing side cameras on the mirrors like the 360 parking cameras in other brands. The closest you will get is the rear view camera which you can swipe up to show the rear facing fender cameras (can also have camera view up permanently if pressing camera icon).

 

[ionsphere]

There is no low bumper camera in the front nor low front facing side cameras on the mirrors like the 360 parking cameras in other brands. The closest you will get is the rear view camera which you can swipe up to show the rear facing fender cameras (can also have camera view up permanently if pressing camera icon).

Ok I'm gonna try this tonight on the way home

 

[hmadsen]

There is no low bumper camera in the front nor low front facing side cameras on the mirrors like the 360 parking cameras in other brands. The closest you will get is the rear view camera which you can swipe up to show the rear facing fender cameras (can also have camera view up permanently if pressing camera icon).

I saw a test of different cars where they tested the cars ability to detect and avoid obstacles behind the car.

They used a model of a child on a small "motorcycle" type toy, the one a small child can sit across and propel forward using their feet on the ground.

The Tesla had this "child" clearly visible on the reversing camera, but there was no "detection / avoidance" it just ran the "child" over.

Was a bit surprised that the "AI" was not made to look for obstacles like this when reversing and atleast giving a warning or better yet, actively braking.

To be fair only one of the 5 cars tested did this, but still i would expect the Tesla to be great at stuff like this.

But it seems the "vision" system does not do any kind of detection of what is behind it, it is "just a simple reversing camera".

I hope Tesla does something to make this better in the future as it seems such an obvious safety feature.

 

[ionsphere]

I saw a test of different cars where they tested the cars ability to detect and avoid obstacles behind the car.

They used a model of a child on a small "motorcycle" type toy, the one a small child can sit across and propel forward using their feet on the ground.

The Tesla had this "child" clearly visible on the reversing camera, but there was no "detection / avoidance" it just ran the "child" over.

Was a bit surprised that the "AI" was not made to look for obstacles like this when reversing and atleast giving a warning or better yet, actively braking.

To be fair only one of the 5 cars tested did this, but still i would expect the Tesla to be great at stuff like this.

But it seems the "vision" system does not do any kind of detection of what is behind it, it is "just a simple reversing camera".

I hope Tesla does something to make this better in the future as it seems such an obvious safety feature.

I have to admit I am also unpleasantly surprised about the abilities of the vision detecting system. When I test drove the car three times of course what I'm experiencing is the great drive and smooth acceleration and perky response. But when it comes to things like obstacle avoidance and auto drive the salesman or I guess "service center representative" said that the auto drive was disabled for the test drive and that they were not able to enable it for me. Maybe I should have clued into something there?

 

[ionsphere]

Ok I'm gonna try this tonight on the way home tonight.

There is no low bumper camera in the front nor low front facing side cameras on the mirrors like the 360 parking cameras in other brands. The closest you will get is the rear view camera which you can swipe up to show the rear facing fender cameras (can also have camera view up permanently if pressing camera icon).

Oh okay I was already aware of these camera views. I thought from reading your response that it meant I could actually move the camera around by swiping. Found that isn't the case. I really think they could have done more with the cameras, had more cameras installed in new cars, especially since they're now depending entirely on "vision"

 

[stopcrazypp]

I saw a test of different cars where they tested the cars ability to detect and avoid obstacles behind the car.

They used a model of a child on a small "motorcycle" type toy, the one a small child can sit across and propel forward using their feet on the ground.

The Tesla had this "child" clearly visible on the reversing camera, but there was no "detection / avoidance" it just ran the "child" over.

Was a bit surprised that the "AI" was not made to look for obstacles like this when reversing and atleast giving a warning or better yet, actively braking.

To be fair only one of the 5 cars tested did this, but still i would expect the Tesla to be great at stuff like this.

But it seems the "vision" system does not do any kind of detection of what is behind it, it is "just a simple reversing camera".

I hope Tesla does something to make this better in the future as it seems such an obvious safety feature.

You are talking about rear AEB (Automatic Emergency Braking), which is different from object detection. Both the USS and non-USS cars have object detection via the park assist. It would show the child as a ping using the yellow/orange lines even if it doesn't visualize it as a child directly. When you get close enough, it will show the distance and will tell you to stop once you reach below 12 inches.

AEB is a different thing, it is the car actually braking actively by itself, rather than just detection and letting the driver decide.

Tesla only added rear AEB in a recent update, so depending on how long ago that test was done and what software version that car was, it might not have it yet.

Tesla's 'Automatic Emergency Braking' Now Works in Reverse and at Speeds Over 100 MPH

Tesla has updated its Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) system to include reverse function and higher speed coverage, as outlined in the updated owner's manual.

www.notateslaapp.com

 

[hmadsen]

You are talking about rear AEB (Automatic Emergency Braking), which is different from object detection. Both the USS and non-USS cars have object detection via the park assist. It would show the child as a ping using the yellow/orange lines even if it doesn't visualize it as a child directly. When you get close enough, it will show the distance and will tell you to stop once you reach below 12 inches.

AEB is a different thing, it is the car actually braking actively by itself, rather than just detection and letting the driver decide.

Tesla only added rear AEB in a recent update, so depending on how long ago that test was done and what software version that car was, it might not have it yet.

Tesla's 'Automatic Emergency Braking' Now Works in Reverse and at Speeds Over 100 MPH

Tesla has updated its Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) system to include reverse function and higher speed coverage, as outlined in the updated owner's manual.

www.notateslaapp.com

I dont know what specific software version they used, but the video was uploaded to YT about a month ago, so i would guess the car has atleast "Newer than April 2023 software"

Below is a link to the video, i know you wont understand what they say, but you can clearly see that the car did nothing to avoid or stop. (Volkswagen ID3 is the only car here, that stopped (As seen at timestamp 12:17)

After this test they say that going forward the car was great at stopping for obstacles in front of the car.

That being said, it might be, that they did not enable these features for Denmark, it seems quite a lot of the time when they add new features when i look at websites that show what new features are released, it says "Not relevant for Denmark"

The latest update where you got "Autolight with wipers" is still not something that a Danish Tesla is capable of doing....And it is not because of legislation, my cheapo, bog standard 2008 GM car had this feature (Car was first produced in 2005 so my "now almost 20 year old model" had this feature, but it is still missing on my Tesla)

 

[stopcrazypp]

I dont know what specific software version they used, but the video was uploaded to YT about a month ago, so i would guess the car has atleast "Newer than April 2023 software"

I would not assume that, Tesla does not rollout software immediately to all cars and certainly not all features roll out internationally at the same time (as you mention below), plus not everyone updates immediately to new software even when it is available. I'm still on software version from 2022 (2022.44.25.3) although that is partly by choice.

Below is a link to the video, i know you wont understand what they say, but you can clearly see that the car did nothing to avoid or stop. (Volkswagen ID3 is the only car here, that stopped (As seen at timestamp 12:17)

After this test they say that going forward the car was great at stopping for obstacles in front of the car.

That being said, it might be, that they did not enable these features for Denmark, it seems quite a lot of the time when they add new features when i look at websites that show what new features are released, it says "Not relevant for Denmark"

The latest update where you got "Autolight with wipers" is still not something that a Danish Tesla is capable of doing....And it is not because of legislation, my cheapo, bog standard 2008 GM car had this feature (Car was first produced in 2005 so my "now almost 20 year old model" had this feature, but it is still missing on my Tesla)

 

[Dracaris]

Our car is now at a Tesla SC for minor warranty service. One of the service items is an update to the firmware in all the HW4 cameras on the car since that error popped up a couple of times. They've made zero promises with respect to the auto wipers, but we will experiment afterward to see whether the auto wipers and FSD respond any better with the latest camera firmware. Still mad about no USS and their decision to ship the new hardware platform before they had the software working, but if the vision stuff actually starts working I can begin to let the issue slide.

BTW, I can't imagine any other car maker doing what Tesla seems to have done: advertise a bunch of features, ship cars knowing those features simply don't work because the requisite software isn't there yet, and then spout nonsense about how, someday, any day now, or maybe years in the future, those features will finally start working. Grrr...

 

[ionsphere]

Our car is now at a Tesla SC for minor warranty service. One of the service items is an update to the firmware in all the HW4 cameras on the car since that error popped up a couple of times. They've made zero promises with respect to the auto wipers, but we will experiment afterward to see whether the auto wipers and FSD respond any better with the latest camera firmware. Still mad about no USS and their decision to ship the new hardware platform before they had the software working, but if the vision stuff actually starts working I can begin to let the issue slide.

BTW, I can't imagine any other car maker doing what Tesla seems to have done: advertise a bunch of features, ship cars knowing those features simply don't work because the requisite software isn't there yet, and then spout nonsense about how, someday, any day now, or maybe years in the future, those features will finally start working. Grrr...

I agree

 

[hmadsen]

Our car is now at a Tesla SC for minor warranty service. One of the service items is an update to the firmware in all the HW4 cameras on the car since that error popped up a couple of times. They've made zero promises with respect to the auto wipers, but we will experiment afterward to see whether the auto wipers and FSD respond any better with the latest camera firmware. Still mad about no USS and their decision to ship the new hardware platform before they had the software working, but if the vision stuff actually starts working I can begin to let the issue slide.

BTW, I can't imagine any other car maker doing what Tesla seems to have done: advertise a bunch of features, ship cars knowing those features simply don't work because the requisite software isn't there yet, and then spout nonsense about how, someday, any day now, or maybe years in the future, those features will finally start working. Grrr...

They do this all the time.

Vision only cars has to pay full price for the NOA package with a promise that the 60% of features currently not available, will be available in the future.

There is not even any kind of evidence that they are actually working on getting summon, smart summon and autopark implemented for Vision only cars..

I bet that according to their TOS if you bought the NOA package now, and looking back in 10 years, these 3 functions never materialised on Vision only cars, you would not be eligible to get compensated, even though they sold you a product with promises, that they never fullfilled.

 

[ionsphere]

They do this all the time.

Vision only cars has to pay full price for the NOA package with a promise that the 60% of features currently not available, will be available in the future.

There is not even any kind of evidence that they are actually working on getting summon, smart summon and autopark implemented for Vision only cars..

I bet that according to their TOS if you bought the NOA package now, and looking back in 10 years, these 3 functions never materialised on Vision only cars, you would not be eligible to get compensated, even though they sold you a product with promises, that they never fullfilled.

Hopefully they will update the software but the reality that the USS is completely missing and vision is inherently flawed - because I want a machine to do things better than a human can with vision and not be limited every time it rains or snows or is muddy and the views get obstructed. But I am still learning and I hope to discover more to love. Hard to remain optimistic when it feels distinctly like I got screwed.
I had no idea that they would be basically downgrading the brand new cars, making the older used cars more valuable at a much lower cost. It was a bad investment for me and I don't trust the auto driving feature because it doesn't feel believable. It's of course too late to do anything about it, and it was the minute I drove it off the lot after they had me check off that I was agreeing to buy a car without the ultrasonic sensors. Of course I didn't know fully what that meant and I was too excited about driving the car off the lot and reacting to the pressure of buying from inventory and how that deal would be gone if I didn't agree to it today. The whole hype of Tesla being different from car salesman who trick people into bad purchases is basically garbage. No amount of research that I was capable of would have shown me this, because all the research was based on the previous recent version. It wasn't apparent to a beginner that the brand new car I was buying had changed so drastically and so simply, by a single message that popped up on the screen, and actually after I made the purchase, as I was about to drive it off the lot. I was naive enough to think Tesla SC people were more straightforward and that this car is the future.
It's just kind of hard to believe these cars will ever be what the research that I based my buy on were.