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Tesla Vision - To buy or not?

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Hi All,

I have a 2019 Tesla Model 3. I need to upgrade for more space... I have put down the deposit of $250 for 2023 Tesla Model Y and I am scheduled to pick up the car in 3-4 days. I just discovered (unfortunately) there are no more USS. I am late, I know. I have been watching some videos about Tesla vision not detecting bins, shorter objects and estimating the distance incorrectly.

1) Do owners with Tesla Vision only regret buying their vehicle?
2) If I purchase a used 2022 Model Y that still has the sensors, will they be decommissioned by Tesla eventually anyway?

Thanks!
 
There is like a 45 page (45 pages of posts not 45 posts) thread on the subject of model Y, and no USS. You can review that thread and join in the discussion there if desired:

 
Go drive one and decide yourself. I have a 3 and S with USS. I was looking to replace my S LR with a S Plaid. I drove a 3 without USS and decided it wasn't ready for prime time by a long shot. I decided to buy a used one with USS. YMMV and depends on your environment how important it will be.

I have an irregularly shaped garage. I have to put the nose exactly 13"or less from the front wall to have the garage door clear the tail. If I am 11" or less, my spoiler hits part of the garage that I can't easily see. With USS I can precisely put the car where I need to park it every time. I tried the hanging tennis ball but the wife and kid leave the bikes in different places so every time I have to adjust where to place the car.

So USS makes it a breeze to park every time once I figured out the measurements that worked. I tried parking a 3 with TeslaVision (TV) and it might as well have been drunk. MOST IMPORTANTLY - TV is really bad at the corners because of the camera field of view. The sensors have a much better view of the corners. Software can only do so much to make up for lack of hardware.

It comes down to where you drive and if ease of parking is important to you.
 
I have to put the nose exactly 13"or less from the front wall to have the garage door clear the tail. If I am 11" or less, my spoiler hits part of the garage that I can't easily see. With USS I can precisely put the car where I need to park it every time. I tried the hanging tennis ball but the wife and kid leave the bikes in different places so every time I have to adjust where to place the car.
FYI, for a garage, there are laser parking guides that are better than tennis balls since you can clearly see the precise position to align the back of the car relative to the garage door.
 
TV parking is not currently as accurate as USS, whether it will get there or not is uncertain but possible.

Personally I think you’d be insane to flip a purchase decision on something as trivial as USS (speaking as an Tesla owner than doesn’t have them).
 
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TV parking is not currently as accurate as USS, whether it will get there or not is uncertain but possible.

Personally I think you’d be insane to flip a purchase decision on something as trivial as USS (speaking as an Tesla owner than doesn’t have them).
Depending on your environment, they may not matter. Tesla cut them to save costs, not because they are offering a better alternative. As usual they didn't offer one.

I went through this with the radar removal of the Y after I ordered it and before it was delivered. If I had known what a cluster truck that was going to be, I'd have cancelled my order and sat it out for a year before the SW got to where it wasn't terrible on that car. My S had radar and then it was disabled in an update. I can categorically tell you that the car was better with radar than without with respect to Phantom braking as well as functionality.

Reducing of the top speed from 90 to 85 for AP tells you that even Tesla doesn't think a pure TV solution works as well as when radar was part of the stack. The reduction was not trivial as there is a highway I am where the speed limit is 85 mph. The speedo reads a little low, and traffic generally runs faster than posted. So I can't use AP on that stretch of road now without becoming a rolling roadblock.

So once again Tesla is downgrading our cars to save a few dollars and giving us a crappier solution in return. Anecdotally, TV generally (for AP) works better on my 3 than my Y. Don't know why just my observation. Maybe with HW4 it will be better. I've learned to not hold my breath for anything Tesla promises. Assume whatever they deliver, it isn't going to get any better. That is a safe assumption and sets your expectations for less disappointment. My Y performed so badly on TV only I ultimately sold it. I don't know if Mullermn would think the radar removal was trivial but after Tesla burned me with that fiasco, I learned my lesson big time. Hence the reason I wasn't going to buy a car without USS until Tesla has a viable option that works for me. The current TV parking aid doesn't even work as remotely well as USS.

I posted somewhere else here that there was what appeared to be a MIC (made in China) 3 driving around the Bay Area for probably testing with what looked to be parking sensors buttons in the bumper. What happens to the 3 often happen to the Y and vice versa. So the speculation was they might be bringing them back. If they do, highly unlikely Tesla will retrofit for you. Again no proof they are doing that but... Here is the vid for reference. Who knows, they may be backtracking on the removal like they did with the yoke on the Y/S.


I would really encourage OP to go drive a 3/Y with the TV being used for parking assist and make up his own mind. Hopefully there is a demo car nearby and he can see. Enjoy whatever you buy and go in with your eyes wide open. Don't assume any future functionality or remotely believe the timeline for it until you see it with your own eyes.
 
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Depending on your environment, they may not matter. Tesla cut them to save costs, not because they are offering a better alternative. As usual they didn't offer one.

I went through this with the radar removal of the Y after I ordered it and before it was delivered. If I had known what a cluster truck that was going to be, I'd have cancelled my order and sat it out for a year before the SW got to where it wasn't terrible on that car. My S had radar and then it was disabled in an update. I can categorically tell you that the car was better with radar than without with respect to Phantom braking as well as functionality.

Reducing of the top speed from 90 to 85 for AP tells you that even Tesla doesn't think a pure TV solution works as well as when radar was part of the stack. The reduction was not trivial as there is a highway I am where the speed limit is 85 mph. The speedo reads a little low, and traffic generally runs faster than posted. So I can't use AP on that stretch of road now without becoming a rolling roadblock.

So once again Tesla is downgrading our cars to save a few dollars and giving us a crappier solution in return. Anecdotally, TV generally (for AP) works better on my 3 than my Y. Don't know why just my observation. Maybe with HW4 it will be better. I've learned to not hold my breath for anything Tesla promises. Assume whatever they deliver, it isn't going to get any better. That is a safe assumption and sets your expectations for less disappointment. My Y performed so badly on TV only I ultimately sold it. I don't know if Mullermn would think the radar removal was trivial but after Tesla burned me with that fiasco, I learned my lesson big time. Hence the reason I wasn't going to buy a car without USS until Tesla has a viable option that works for me. The current TV parking aid doesn't even work as remotely well as USS.

I posted somewhere else here that there was what appeared to be a MIC (made in China) 3 driving around the Bay Area for probably testing with what looked to be parking sensors buttons in the bumper. What happens to the 3 often happen to the Y and vice versa. So the speculation was they might be bringing them back. If they do, highly unlikely Tesla will retrofit for you. Again no proof they are doing that but... Here is the vid for reference. Who knows, they may be backtracking on the removal like they did with the yoke on the Y/S.


I would really encourage OP to go drive a 3/Y with the TV being used for parking assist and make up his own mind. Hopefully there is a demo car nearby and he can see. Enjoy whatever you buy and go in with your eyes wide open. Don't assume any future functionality or remotely believe the timeline for it until you see it with your own eyes.
I disagree that removing radar is a downgrade...now. At first it was worse, but it's better than it ever was now (far better).

Everything else you are spot on and to my previous point, I hate that Tesla makes these decisions before fleshing things out. It's absolutely a cost reduction measure and it took a long time for TV to be better than radar.

I wouldn't want a car without USS right now...and maybe they make the same strides that they did with radar, but maybe they don't? If I had the choice, I wouldn't accept that gamble if I had the choice.
 
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Removing USS was not a cost saving measure. At least, nobody has made a convincing case that it is, anyway.

I believe the rumour was that removing USS saves Tesla about $100M/year. Sounds a lot, but Tesla hare a revenue of $59 BILLION/year - and that was 2021, business has grown since. That means removing USS saves 0.17% which is the equivalent of someone earning $50k saving ~$85 a year. In exchange they have taken significant flak and criticism and scored a PR own goal - no business would do that for such a comparatively trivial saving.

The reason for TV replacing USS is that USS does not get Tesla where they need to be for self parking. USS can't detect curbs, can't distinguish between different objects (foliage vs walls etc), can't see purely visual indicators like parked lines and the output from the sensors is not integrated with the car's 3D model of the world. If Tesla want to deliver a 'robo taxi' that can exit a parked location, make a journey and park again, that's nowhere near good enough.

It is inevitable that TV would replace USS. The annoyance is that they did it before the software was ready, but that may have been prompted by Covid component shortages that affected all manufacturers. Instead of putting them back they decided to go all-in on the TV system they would have eventually moved to anyway.
 
I disagree that removing radar is a downgrade...now. At first it was worse, but it's better than it ever was now (far better).
For me I can't use AP as before at 90 mph. That is a downgrade for my use. With radar in my car, I never had phantom braking (PB), there was only one possible situation where I encountered it and I couldn't 100% say it was PB or not.

In less than 1k miles after I was forced onto a version that disabled my radar, I have had 4 incidents of clear phantom braking. Two of them were caused by truck shadows I believe. My plan was to never move of the SW version that was the last one to support radar. When the wheel was installed to replace the yoke, they forced the update.

As a result I had a chance to compare last stack with radar vs newest and best running TV without radar. I'll chose with radar in my area. Massive difference in bumper to bumper traffic. The radar enabled stack was able to follow the cars much more closely in rush hour. Far less people cutting into the gap vs radarless. With radar it noticed the car accelerating sooner and again didn't make such a huge gap that people wanted to cut into. In general, with radar the car felt more responsive to the cars accelerating and braking in heavy traffic than the pure TV version of my car.

These are my observations of the exact same car, same roads, same conditions, etc. just the difference of radar and pure TV. It is about as close to an A/B comparison I can get as there is no vacation between cars. It IS the same car. It was very easy to notice the differences driving them back to back like that.

Anyway, Tesla isn't ever going to get me again like they did when they removed radar from my Y. It took over a year before it wasn't horrid on my Y. Totally killed my enthusiasm for that car and greatly impacted personally the reputation of the brand. I already had my S on order and was glad it had radar, up until the moment they disabled it. To be fair, my 3 was a TV car from the start and knew it when I ordered it. I wasn't as concerned about it as my wife would mostly drive it and she never would use AP or TACC anyway. It was however much better than my Y ever was when running the same SW stack. Definitely worse than my S though when it had radar.

If Tesla keeps de-contenting their cars on a race to the bottom, my next car won't be one. Stalk removal is just another stupid idea. I'll likely never buy another S until they can come up with a decent gear change approach. If they do that to the 3, I'll never buy another one of them.
 
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Are there any after market parts that can improve park assist? Its fine if its a third party and I need an extra screen. I am thinking TV should be OK with basic autopilot. For phantom breaking, I've experienced them even in my current M3 (2019).... And it got better over time. Probably would in this case as well.
 
There are some good wireless front cameras you could mount for better view of wherever you put it. You could mount under the license plate area to help but then you still won't see the corners that well.
 
The parking in my garage is somewhat tedious. Wife's got a BMX X2, there are bikes and stuff there, too. I do rely on the USS but I have sort of memorized it now. My other concern is the resale value. If Tesla brings this back and jacks up the price of the Y, we are kind of screwed. There are a lot of people who make sense , too. Just use your eyes and trust your brain to park. lol. I guess as another pointed out, Let me go try it this weekend at the dealer and make sure. I contacted another dealer about a 2022 Model Y performance for about the same price with low miles. Could be an alternative...
 
The parking in my garage is somewhat tedious. Wife's got a BMX X2, there are bikes and stuff there, too. I do rely on the USS but I have sort of memorized it now. My other concern is the resale value. If Tesla brings this back and jacks up the price of the Y, we are kind of screwed. There are a lot of people who make sense , too. Just use your eyes and trust your brain to park. lol. I guess as another pointed out, Let me go try it this weekend at the dealer and make sure. I contacted another dealer about a 2022 Model Y performance for about the same price with low miles. Could be an alternative...
I don't think you have to worry about Tesla bringing it back, at all, and if prices increase on the MY, your resale will increase as well.
 
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