No, I appreciated and understood that part of your post. However; I also thought the following statement you made was baseless: "The only cars that come close to being Tesla killers are the Kona and Niro, which may kill off the Model 3 Short Range." Re-read what I said in that context and the thread I linked to and it might make more sense.
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Blog A Look at Tesla's EV Competition in 2019
- Thread starter Ty_McMahan
- Start date
No, I appreciated and understood that part of your post. However; I also thought the following statement you made was baseless: "The only cars that come close to being Tesla killers are the Kona and Niro, which may kill off the Model 3 Short Range." Re-read what I said in that context and the thread I linked to and it might make more sense.
So your response was:
"Whatever he meant by that statement, he still doesn't seem to understand there is more to a car than just range.
It's been pointed out to him before, but he's blind with ignorance - Hyundai KonaEV. The Kona has a buyer, the Model 3 SR has a buyer. Apples and oranges, one will not be killing t'other."
As I've said before, multiple times, better range in the Kona/Niro isn't the only factor. If you want a sporty, small car like the M3 then obviously you won't buy a hatchback CUV. If you want a decent boot opening or higher up driving position or longer warranty you might get a Niro/Kona.
The thing is that the M3 gets less attractive the cheaper it gets. The base $35k model is extremely low spec. No AP, minimal tech and comfort features, lower range, and you pay more to shave about 1.3 seconds off the 0-60 time if the expected 5.1 second time is accurate.
So that narrows the field a bit. For it to make sense you have to be looking for an affordable EV, but need 200+ mile range, and have some specific reason to favour the M3 like supercharger access or wanting the slightly sportier performance.
In the $40-70k range there is a lot less competition and the upgrades make the car more competitive.
Given that, I think by the time it is available it probably won't sell that well, and will likely be discontinued fairly quickly, if it ever gets released at all. The more time that passes the more likely that becomes, as other cars enter the market and their prices keep falling.
"Whatever he meant by that statement, he still doesn't seem to understand there is more to a car than just range.
It's been pointed out to him before, but he's blind with ignorance - Hyundai KonaEV. The Kona has a buyer, the Model 3 SR has a buyer. Apples and oranges, one will not be killing t'other."
As I've said before, multiple times, better range in the Kona/Niro isn't the only factor. If you want a sporty, small car like the M3 then obviously you won't buy a hatchback CUV. If you want a decent boot opening or higher up driving position or longer warranty you might get a Niro/Kona.
The thing is that the M3 gets less attractive the cheaper it gets. The base $35k model is extremely low spec. No AP, minimal tech and comfort features, lower range, and you pay more to shave about 1.3 seconds off the 0-60 time if the expected 5.1 second time is accurate.
So that narrows the field a bit. For it to make sense you have to be looking for an affordable EV, but need 200+ mile range, and have some specific reason to favour the M3 like supercharger access or wanting the slightly sportier performance.
In the $40-70k range there is a lot less competition and the upgrades make the car more competitive.
Given that, I think by the time it is available it probably won't sell that well, and will likely be discontinued fairly quickly, if it ever gets released at all. The more time that passes the more likely that becomes, as other cars enter the market and their prices keep falling.
It still has the same motor and fantastic handling that many reviews praise online, many similar interior features and some people (me included) love how it looks. Plus Supercharging, which I know from experience is a significant benefit. The base model doesn't change any of that. I think you're downplaying the fact that even the SR Model 3 is distinctly different to the Niro and Kona etc. Both will have a buyer, you'll see. 
Last edited:
The other thing folks are missing in the M3 vs Kona debate is the futuristic factor. M3 = OTA updates, all controls on a huge touch screen rather than hard buttons, no dealership to deal with. Like comparing a flip phone (Niro/Kona) to a smart phone. Of the 500,000+ reservation holders on the M3, I'm betting there's still a bunch out there waiting for the $35K model, and could care less about upscale interior or 300mi range. They are driving Priuses / Civics / Corollas now, or leasing a Leaf, and to them even $25K is a lot of money. But they want next gen.
Very much a matter of opinion though.
OTA updates mean the software is forever beta quality and they can make it worse sometimes (like the AP hands-on-wheel downgrade last year). Touch screen means frustrating UI for some basic features like wiper control (which is in beta) and lack of tactile response. No dealership means long trips to distant service centres and long waits for servicing, and of course the biggest issue: no discounts. Other cars with a £35k list usually sell for far less after dealer discounts and incentives - I got about 30% off without even asking on my first Leaf.
Depending on your point of view, it could be more like an experimental Nokia banana phone that they swear is the future of mobile computing, vs. a more conventional but still great iPhone.
Not saying I agree with either of those positions, just that the benefits of the M3 are of course subjective.
jgs
Active Member
I agree/disagree with this point.
I personally love the fact that with Tesla, the price is the price. I cannot stress this enough. Furthermore, I'm clearly not a one-off -- people say this online pretty frequently, and people I know have said it to me in person. The typical haggle-and-discount car buying experience leaves a large proportion of the population with the nagging feeling they've been cheated, whether it's true or not. That said, there is some other proportion of the population who apparently loves to haggle. I guess these people are the coupon-clippers too (it does seem to correlate in my informal observations). They apparently feel somehow deflated if they don't get to haggle on the price of their car. In this regard, there's no pleasing everyone. All I know is that while I can't say for certain (not having access to, or looked at, any statistics on the subject) that Tesla has made the right choice to please the no-haggle crowd and disappoint the loves-to-haggle crowd, it feels right to me.
I think the salient point here is that (sez you, anyway) Tesla is priced higher than their competition. They could fix this -- if they wanted to -- by simply dropping their no-haggle price. Or we can say that actually, the apples-to-apples comparison for the £35k Tesla is a £45k competitor if you expect to actually haggle that car down to £35k.
If I were Tesla I'd feel just fine about telling people who want a discount to go shop somewhere else. They aren't your retail therapist, they just want to sell you a product. If the product is worth £35k to you, buy it for that. If it's not, don't. Refreshing.
Kia Soul EV delayed until 2021 due to motor and battery shortages:
Official: Kia Soul EV delayed until 2021
Official: Kia Soul EV delayed until 2021
Similar threads
