A tesla for grandma

[ElectricTundra]

We live part time in The Netherlands. There is no issue of older people driving dangerously because older people simply ride bikes instead of drive. Older people in The Netherlands have much greater mobility than those in the US who largely become homebound. Dutch elderly rarely become homebound - they continue riding their bicycles until the day they die (and a surprising number of road fatalities in NL are older people keeling over with a heart attack while riding to their morning coffee klatch) and this keeps them much healthier in the latter years of their life as well.

My wife and I have chosen places to live in the US that allows us to similarly ride our bikes on protected bikeways for groceries, pharmacy, and a few places to eat—as our retirement health plan.

Rather than a Tesla for grandma, how about a good bicycle? Handmade City Bicycles

 

[tander]

We live part time in The Netherlands. There is no issue of older people driving dangerously because older people simply ride bikes instead of drive. Older people in The Netherlands have much greater mobility than those in the US who largely become homebound. Dutch elderly rarely become homebound - they continue riding their bicycles until the day they die (and a surprising number of road fatalities in NL are older people keeling over with a heart attack while riding to their morning coffee klatch) and this keeps them much healthier in the latter years of their life as well.

My wife and I have chosen places to live in the US that allows us to similarly ride our bikes on protected bikeways for groceries, pharmacy, and a few places to eat—as our retirement health plan.

Rather than a Tesla for grandma, how about a good bicycle? Handmade City Bicycles

I would LOVE to see that, those workcycles are cool, I wish our city or state or whatever would give every citizen a voucher for a free bike and walking shoes, especially as someone who lives in a bike-centric city (by US standards at least). Unfortunately after starting smoking before she was a teenager (she quit after about 50 years), just walking around the house is a pretty big workout for her, she just moved into a new place without stairs.

That sounds like a pretty great retirement plan, I look forward to hearing about more 90 and 100 year old people keeling over on their bike ride to morning coffee (that sounds bad but you know what I mean). I'm also looking forward to being able to ride a bike in my city (which has been voted the #1 US bike city before) without having to inhale car exhaust or worry about drivers just leaving the bar.

 

[kort677]

I would LOVE to see that, those workcycles are cool, I wish our city or state or whatever would give every citizen a voucher for a free bike and walking shoes,

where exactly do you think the government gets it's money from? money given away by government is money taken from someone else.
why should anyone be given anything? if you feel that these things are things that you should own consider opening your own wallet.

 

[Jack007]

you're in fantasy land. despite all the fluffy hype the reality is that Full autonomous driving is years if not decades away.

Research Vehicle to Vehicle software. I was stunned all the years reading about tesla and autopilot that I had never seen or heard about this. Basically the government has set aside a spectrum to allow ALL vehicles, that have the hardware put on, to talk to each other.
So a 92 corolla could talk to a 2017 tesla. When this comes out, and 99.9 percent of vehicles (obv government mandated) have it, fully autonomous driving will be in the bag. Perhaps cities will need sensors and transmitters to get an exact position, and where exactly the lines are (because you know snow, and wear and tear). But easily 5 to 10 years. It's mostly about the V2V software, but with the tesla AP2, it would even be better. In case a deer starts staring you down.

 

[kort677]

Research Vehicle to Vehicle software. I was stunned all the years reading about tesla and autopilot that I had never seen or heard about this. Basically the government has set aside a spectrum to allow ALL vehicles, that have the hardware put on, to talk to each other.
So a 92 corolla could talk to a 2017 tesla. When this comes out, and 99.9 percent of vehicles (obv government mandated) have it, fully autonomous driving will be in the bag. Perhaps cities will need sensors and transmitters to get an exact position, and where exactly the lines are (because you know snow, and wear and tear). But easily 5 to 10 years. It's mostly about the V2V software, but with the tesla AP2, it would even be better. In case a deer starts staring you down.

in other words you agree with my statement that full autonomous driving is years if not decades away

 

[ElectricTundra]

where exactly do you think the government gets it's money from? money given away by government is money taken from someone else. Why should anyone be given anything? If you feel that these things are things that you should own consider opening your own wallet.

Yes. But... The cost of driving is quite high, even BEV's. Aside from direct costs like tyres, fuel, maintenance, and such ($0.40 - $1.35 / mile), the costs to maintain road systems is about $0.14 / mile driven (direct maintenance, amortized re-construction, cleaning and snow clearing). Law enforcement, imposed risk, and crashes add another $0.30 / mile. So about $0.44 / mile for an average car vs less than $0.01 / mile for a bicycle.

How many miles by bicycle instead of driving will pay for the bicycle purchase? Beyond that every mile by bicycle instead of driving is pure savings.

You can perhaps then layer on top of this some of our healthcare costs. The primary cause of our (US) higher costs (about $4500 per capita compared to EU) is lack of activity and a somewhat distant second is obesity and overweight. A population that walks or bicycles for more of their transportation is generally much healthier than one that does not. This is a key difference in healthcare costs in the US vs EU. This lack of activity cost is estimated to be about $2500 per person per year.

 

[tander]

where exactly do you think the government gets it's money from? money given away by government is money taken from someone else.
why should anyone be given anything? if you feel that these things are things that you should own consider opening your own wallet.

I do open my wallet, and I would happily pay the extra .0008% taxes in order to do this as preventive medicine. There is an organization where I live that gives away bikes to kids that wouldn't otherwise be able to afford them that I donate money and old bike parts. This is in a neighborhood that traditionally is highly dense and has higher than average rates health problems like obesity and diabetes, and consequent higher healthcare costs, which is something that we already pay for if you pay taxes or for health insurance. I see it as a preventive investment in the long-term health (and reduced healthcare costs) of the community, and it's fun and empowering for kids who wouldn't otherwise get to have a bike. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Or if you really can't bear the the thought giving somebody something, how about a bike library?

 

[divesturner]

in other words you agree with my statement that full autonomous driving is years if not decades away

I agree that one year is optimistic, although that is close to the Tesla goal. We should have level four before 5 years; anything greater than five years is essentially infinity...

 

[brkaus]

It's mostly about the V2V software, but with the tesla AP2, it would even be better. In case a deer starts staring you down.

D2V is next?

 

[Jack007]

Yeah the 1 to 5 years (closer to 5) estimate sounds reasonable to me.
But who knows, Tesla does some crazy updates.
I just think that if someone is waving to get in,
it's going to take an awake driver to let him.
Unless the V2V software transmits when there is a signal someone wanting in...

 

[22522]

Yeah the 1 to 5 years (closer to 5) estimate sounds reasonable to me.
But who knows, Tesla does some crazy updates.
I just think that if someone is waving to get in,
it's going to take an awake driver to let him.
Unless the V2V software transmits when there is a signal someone wanting in...

This sounds like Brazil. Turn signals should be discernible with the existing sensor set.

 

[divesturner]

Hearing more and more about this on unofficial channels, podcasts and forums. Recently heard it described as copilot. I wonder if there's a path for this to be an assist feature at level 3 that would at least extend the driving life of someone with diminished abilities. Seems like incremental steps from current level two could get us there in less than the previously speculation of five years.