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I rarely disagree with you @DaveT, if ever, but I'll have to here.

Of course this is a crossover, and of course it competes with X1/X3/X4. I just now visited BMW website after many years, and after getting camera, navigation and heated seats, MY long range (no autopilot) is comparable in price to X3 with smaller engine, here in Canada. I doubt it's different in US. Of course X3 starting price is currently lower, but that's just a game of walking you into packaged options that you have to get for few features that are highly desirable. And yes, you're likely to spend more on MY when you get autopilot, but BMW doesn't have yet comparable technology, though they're putting brave face and big words.

And about 3rd row seat, well, yeah, they're for kids, for my wife to pick up our kids and her sisters and random neighbour from after-care for a 5 minute drive. That's the purpose of third row seats in X5, if I understand it well. Neither is replacement for a full size minivan or Tahoe.

Your point about towing stands, but I know no one in my neighbourhood that tows anything ever, so that's likely geographically different, or lifestyle driven.

And finally, I've never seen my wife excited about vehicle, until MY reveal last night, and I like it too. And btw, I've done road trips comfortably with my S60 of 330km (not miles!) range, so buying lesser model than LR is completely valid option in my book(unless towing). I live in Toronto, that is a bit more hostile towards electric vehicles than California.
I'm not saying that there won't be people interested and excited about the Model Y. There will be and there will be a lot. Note that I'm expecting demand to be 450-600k units/year, which is a lot for a luxury crossover.

The point I was trying to get across was that to a certain segment of SUV shoppers, the Model Y won't be appealing. Especially those who are looking for the "sport utility" in the sport utility vehicle. Meaning, those who like the most cargo space possible, want the option to tow a boat or trailer, etc. Also, there are many who don't want to stop and supercharge on a long road trip, especially those with young kids. But in order to buy a Model Y (over a X5, let's say), one needs to see more benefit than disadvantages compared to buying a X5. All I'm saying is that while there will be a lot of people who will see that benefit, like your wife for example, still there will be even more who aren't swayed by the Y and prefer an ICE SUV.

This dynamic is quite interesting because I believe it's more pronounced in the SUV segment. For the compact/mid-size sedan market, most people aren't necessary using it for long road trips (some are, but many have a second larger vehicle) or for towing or hauling lots of stuff. There's a lot of people using compact/mid-sized sedans for commuting, around town or in cities. To many, the Model 3 can be very compelling because let's say they have a 20-60 mile commute each way, and using the Model 3 they save on gas and they just charge overnight. In other words, there aren't a lot of drawbacks buying a Model 3 as a commuter car. So, as long as the car is priced competitively, there will be lots of people interested. The biggest disadvantage of an electric car, besides price, is charging on road trips. That disadvantaged is muffled/muted when using the Model 3 as a commuter car, since a family might use the Model 3 as a commuter car and they might have a larger car for road trips.

However, the Model Y presents slightly different dynamics. For SUV shoppers, many will see immediate disadvantages like the lack of sport utility compared to ICE counterparts. An EV compact/mid-sized sedan actually competes better against their ICE counterparts than the Model Y will compete with its ICE SUV counterparts. Yes, I know this will be controversial and would like to hear thoughtful responses to it. But the reasons being is that the Model Y isn't a great SUV in the sense of being able to do certain things a SUV can do, like tow/haul and do quick gas stops on a road trip. But one might say, a lot of people aren't looking for those things in a SUV, and that could be true... but I do believe road trip charging is a big negative for EVs at the moment. This disadvantage will shrink over time as charging gets faster. I do think the Model Y will compete well against it's ICE Crossover counterparts. In other words, for those people who just want a car that sits higher and has easier ingress/egress, then the Model Y can be very appealing... and I suppose that that's the bulk of the crowd that will be buying the Model Y.

But, long-term, the technology is improving and batteries are getting cheaper/better, and eventually EV SUVs will outcompete ICE SUVs... but that will take some time. Just providing a reality check here.
 
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And about 3rd row seat, well, yeah, they're for kids, for my wife to pick up our kids and her sisters' kids and random neighbour's from after-care for a 5 minute drive. That's the purpose of third row seats in X5, if I understand it well. Neither is replacement for a full size minivan or Tahoe.

Regarding the 3rd row seats, one probably just needs to see them in person. BMW X5's third row seats are very usable. The Model Y's third row seats are a borderline joke... and I say that with all due respect to Tesla. I was shocked to see how tiny the 3rd row seats are.
 
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On a side note, what's with Elon yesterday talking about Tesla almost dying last year... and during the Model Y unveil event!?! Geez. Even if it was true, that sure doesn't instill a lot of confidence in people viewing the event.
I've talked a lot here about Tesla's need to control the narrative, and this is a classic example. By blurting out that Tesla almost died last year and saying it at yesterday's Model Y unveil event, Elon is feeding the trolls and media with the bankruptcy narrative and putting into question even Tesla's current state of health. Completely unnecessary and counterproductive.
 
Regarding the 3rd row seats, one probably just needs to see them in person. BMW X5's third row seats are very usable. The Model Y's third row seats are a borderline joke... and I say that with all due respect to Tesla. I was shocked to see how tiny the 3rd row seats are.
You'd know better about current X5, at best I've seen previous gen., or one before (and wasn't impressed). I stopped caring about BMW few years back after horrific '07 series 3 I had.

Yet, I'll note that my kids like rear seats in Porsche 911 from both 996 gen. (2003) and 964 (1990). And you should see those seats from '90 911, they are miniscule... My kids also loved reversed seats in the back of Mercedes E350 station Wagon, so I'll bet even without seeing MY seats, that you underestimate their value for purpose of schlepping kids.

Random thought, seats aren't designed for MY yet, remember the whole discussion about MY having M3 seats on risers? Who knows what we'll get, though it's possible they figure they bit more than they can chew, and cancel the whole third-row thing. That would be Elon-like...

From your previous point, I now get your point about lack of macho design. I just never expected MY to be macho, proper SUV, I expected CUV, and I got it.
 
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I've talked a lot here about Tesla's need to control the narrative, and this is a classic example. By blurting out that Tesla almost died last year and saying it at yesterday's Model Y unveil event, Elon is feeding the trolls and media with the bankruptcy narrative and putting into question even Tesla's current state of health. Completely unnecessary and counterproductive.


As a 2012 MS owner, stock holder and follower of this forum, I have now finally come to the conclusion that Elon needs to pull himself out of the spotlight and turn the ‘face’ of the company over to professionals. I want him to continue to be deeply involved with company. Just not its’ main cheerleader as he is a damn lighting rod that all energy - both positive & negitive - seems to find. With the negitive making all the news.
 
99%+ of the SUVs I've seen on the road are not towing anything.

And out of a good handful of trips to China (biggest SUV market), I've never seen an SUV towing anything. I believe your concerns are overblown.

What @DaveT said are concerns of many people who drive ICE now. A lot of SUV buyers like to dream of the option of driving off road or towing a trailer, but few ever do. And the concerns with waiting for the car to charge are overblown. It's actually healthy on a long road trip to get out and walk around a bit every 3-4 hours. I was pleasantly surprised on my first long road trip that I was in better shape after 600 miles on the road in a day than I've ever felt before.

You'd know better about current X5, at best I've seen previous gen., or one before (and wasn't impressed). I stopped caring about BMW few years back after horrific '07 series 3 I had.

Yet, I'll note that my kids like rear seats in Porsche 911 from both 996 gen. (2003) and 964 (1990). And you should see those seats from '90 911, they are miniscule... My kids also loved reversed seats in the back of Mercedes E350 station Wagon, so I'll bet even without seeing MY seats, that you underestimate their value for purpose of schlepping kids.

Random thought, seats aren't designed for MY yet, remember the whole discussion about MY having M3 seats on risers? Who knows what we'll get, though it's possible they figure they bit more than they can chew, and cancel the whole third-row thing. That would be Elon-like...

From your previous point, I now get your point about lack of macho design. I just never expected MY to be macho, proper SUV, I expected CUV, and I got it.

The seats are probably designed. Elon signed off the MY for production a couple of months ago, which means barring something coming up that needs to change, everything is ready to go. They may not have any seats ready to install that don't look like Frankenstein's monster, so they cobbled up some from an M3 as a substitute for the demo. That's not unusual in engineering.

As a 2012 MS owner, stock holder and follower of this forum, I have now finally come to the conclusion that Elon needs to pull himself out of the spotlight and turn the ‘face’ of the company over to professionals. I want him to continue to be deeply involved with company. Just not its’ main cheerleader as he is a damn lighting rod that all energy - both positive & negitive - seems to find. With the negitive making all the news.

At minimum Elon needs to hire a capable COO for Tesla and empower that person to run operations. Tesla has a lot of inefficiencies because it continually lurches from one crisis to another. I'm pretty sure at this point Elon is ADD. Life as continuous crisis management is par for the course with many ADD people who are driven to achieve. A good COO would look ahead, anticipate choke points coming, and deal with them before they become crisis.

Though I also agree that Elon needs to shut up. JB Straubel is not as colorful a character as Elon, but he is more disciplined about staying on message. He's also a far better public speaker than Elon.
 
I think you're missing my point completely. We'll move on.

The point I was trying to get across was that to a certain segment of SUV shoppers, the Model Y won't be appealing.

I'd say your point is irrelevant in that it applies to all vehicles in all segments, there will always be people who won't find a certain vehicle to be appealing. My 4 cyl 2005 RAV4 had no 3rd row and minimal towing capacity yet was a very popular SUV, but of course wouldn't work for towing an Airstream. That was never it's intended market, nor is it the market for the Y.
 
There are several reasons why people buy SUVs/Crossovers. My wife, for eg, wants one because of higher seating and easier ingress/egress. She likes the higher cargo - but tapering vs non-tapering back roof won't make a diff.
I very much agree. Crossovers and smaller SUVs are so popular because they ride a bit higher, are easier to get in and out of, and have a nice amount of storage space for daily driving - groceries, suitcases, kids stuff, medium size boxes, pets, etc. Most people buying them are simply not interested in towing something. Those people typically buy a larger SUV or pickup truck. Tesla has the X for that, though at a much higher price point.
 
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I very much agree. Crossovers and smaller SUVs are so popular because they ride a bit higher, are easier to get in and out of, and have a nice amount of storage space for daily driving - groceries, suitcases, kids stuff, medium size boxes, pets, etc. Most people buying them are simply not interested in towing something. Those people typically buy a larger SUV or pickup truck. Tesla has the X for that, though at a much higher price point.
Yes - it is a crossover. Not a SUV.

SUVs are 10% of the market, cross overs are 40%. RAV4, Rogue & CR-V sell some 1.5 Million a year, for eg.
 
I very much agree. Crossovers and smaller SUVs are so popular because they ride a bit higher, are easier to get in and out of, and have a nice amount of storage space for daily driving - groceries, suitcases, kids stuff, medium size boxes, pets, etc. Most people buying them are simply not interested in towing something. Those people typically buy a larger SUV or pickup truck. Tesla has the X for that, though at a much higher price point.

The average age of new car buyers in the US is somewhere in the 50s and older people more often have mobility issues. I have a friend who struggles to get in and out of both my SO's Impreza and my Model S. She driven a Dodge minivan for years, even though she never had kids. The higher seating is easier to get in and out. The Model Y will be very popular with those who need a higher riding vehicle.
 
I suppose we shouldn’t be surprised at the current stock price (sub-$270) when we have a CEO that claims the company was on the brink of dying just months ago.
He said that a number of times previously, I'd say any effect was priced in long ago. I'd say the constant barrage of misleading negative headlines are having more of an influence.
 
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Despite Elon's comment about being on the verge of dying, I thought his mood and demeanor exuded confidence. Especially in light of all the FUD and negative new stories that have been dominating the headlines over the past couple months. We've seen in the past when Tesla was struggling, his demeanor followed suit. He's pretty transparent and his confidence at the Y reveal was telling to me.

Sooner or later Elon will change gears in order to drive the TSLA market cap up. His compensation plan allows him 9 more years to achieve it, or else he get's nada. I personally think he's focusing on production and scaling. There's probably another full year of pushing this lever. After that, I suspect we'll see more focus on improving financial results with price increases to boost margins, which helps cash flow, and he'll manage investment to shows small quarterly profits. Once that train get's moving, the market cap will start inching up, and my guess is after 4 quarters of consistent and positive results the market cap will move from inching up to gapping up. Q1 of this year could have been the train leaving the station... but it appears not to be the case.

So in sum, I believe we have another year of TSLA at $270-$370 before the train leaves the station. I'm personally still holding long.
 
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