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Battery charging arguments
- Thread starter twalace
- Start date
According to this guy we should have ignored Elons and Tesla's guidance and instead relied on our experience with RC cars. Wait what if we didn't have your level of experience with RC cars? Maybe that should have been a prerequisite to buying a tesla. While we're at it at what point do we draw the squiggly line between our experience with RC cars and what the manufacturer recommends. Likely if we had followed our RC car experience and not Tesla's there would be people saying they weren't surprised our car had issues.
Was just highlighting some bad habits, don't think I said it couldn't happen to myself or others...
Do you really think today's EV's came out of thin air? I guess the micro technology of RC cars years ahead had nothing to do with it...lol
Has nothing to do with the batterygate/chargegate fiasco. The comparison is invalid.
So how else is he supposed to get there? Have the car towed? Are you saying the superchargers are just for looks to irritate ice owners?
There is literally TONS of info on the internet about the fast charging of batteries and the long term effects.
Interesting how some love to put words in your mouth... Again, I said if your only charging source is nothing but Supercharging for it's entire life this will promote a little more battery degradation, period!
I'll let SpaceX know about the model rocket store down the street. I'm sure they need the advice, too.
Rule of thumb on this stuff: teams of really, really smart people with a huge incentive to do well and billions of dollars at their disposal to study this stuff full time have spent years working on this from every angle. You probably aren't going to out-think them.
Here we go again. Nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
Did you misquote the wrong post again? The response has no relevance on the quoted post.
Ferrycraigs
Member
Ok. Your professional history makes you unusual on here, with probably a unique perspective on this. Many of us have had to conduct a great deal of research into Lion batteries, battery tech, Tesla tech and a whole host of other areas that were, for me at lest, very new territory. I certainly can’t claim to be on top of it all, but I do feel I am considerably more knowledgeable about it than I was 9 months ago when we were first infected by 19.16.1. But I am always keen to hear new views.
When you said you had spotted some poor practices, I confess I was hoping for a 'gem from the shop floor'. Unless I have misunderstood, your comment was based primarily on charging a car to a high SoC and leaving it there for some days. I would say that point has been made several times in the 10,000 odd posts before this and is probably well understood. Let’s leave aside that in this instance it is probably a rare event rather than common practice, which I would agree would be poor practice, so perhaps less of a sin. But I assume there is not another aspect you were referring to. If not, then there is probably nothing new to be teased out so it has probably run its course.
And neither aI'll let SpaceX know about the model rocket store down the street. I'm sure they need the advice, too.
Rule of thumb on this stuff: teams of really, really smart people with a huge incentive to do well and billions of dollars at their disposal to study this stuff full time have spent years working on this from every angle. You probably aren't going to out-think them.
So you really think Space X didn't attempt things on a smaller scale before the real thing!!!...lolI'll let SpaceX know about the model rocket store down the street. I'm sure they need the advice, too.
Rule of thumb on this stuff: teams of really, really smart people with a huge incentive to do well and billions of dollars at their disposal to study this stuff full time have spent years working on this from every angle. You probably aren't going to out-think them.
Says captain obvious. But that wasn't the point of the quoted post.
I have to give him credit as a man on a mission. Boldly going forward while quoting and responding out of context. I want to thank you, my Saturday was sort of boring until now!
Why do you make claims like this? You're making things up yourself and acting like you aren't the person saying it. Putting words in others mouths is a literal logical fallacy. Seriously, the fallacy has a name and everything!
Oh.
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Ferrycraigs
Member
The Moderator advises us that there was 'enough snippiness here' that he nearly put it all in the Snippiness thread. I found that a surprising statement. I like to think I take some care never, ever, to be rude, and having gone back over the posts I only see, what I consider, reasonable questions asking for further clarification.
But I’m struggling a bit to identify any snippiness, apart from perhaps one post. So any advice, or (polite) views on what I’m not seeing would be welcome as this is not my first skirmish with the naughty seat, and I would rather stay clear of it.
But I’m struggling a bit to identify any snippiness, apart from perhaps one post. So any advice, or (polite) views on what I’m not seeing would be welcome as this is not my first skirmish with the naughty seat, and I would rather stay clear of it.
Lithium is lithium (albeit with varying mixtures of other compounds), you canna change the laws o’ physics.....
yes RC tech is the same in batteries only pushed to a further extreme, an 18650 cell is still a micro battery no matter how many you have.
I’ve built over 100 hi end off road ebike battery packs, some which pull over 300 amps from a 20 cell parallel pack and the RC guy is totally correct, leaving batteries at full charge is what causes lithium tendrils to grow. Think of lithium cells like a good old British pg tips teabag ... if left at full charge states for too long the microscopic holes that the ions pass through get clogged up.
This causes higher resistance which causes higher temps which lowers efficiency performance of a cell. If you charge an 18650 to 100% each time (100% cycle 0 to 100%) you will get 300 to 500 cycles before major degradation. Reducing full charge to 90% exponentially increases the amount of cycles, this is why all ev cars have a set amount of head room. When storing for a long time 40 to 70% is ideal as it is the length of time left at high charges that do damage.
When tendrils get too long they can short circuit causing fire.
yes RC tech is the same in batteries only pushed to a further extreme, an 18650 cell is still a micro battery no matter how many you have.
I’ve built over 100 hi end off road ebike battery packs, some which pull over 300 amps from a 20 cell parallel pack and the RC guy is totally correct, leaving batteries at full charge is what causes lithium tendrils to grow. Think of lithium cells like a good old British pg tips teabag ... if left at full charge states for too long the microscopic holes that the ions pass through get clogged up.
This causes higher resistance which causes higher temps which lowers efficiency performance of a cell. If you charge an 18650 to 100% each time (100% cycle 0 to 100%) you will get 300 to 500 cycles before major degradation. Reducing full charge to 90% exponentially increases the amount of cycles, this is why all ev cars have a set amount of head room. When storing for a long time 40 to 70% is ideal as it is the length of time left at high charges that do damage.
When tendrils get too long they can short circuit causing fire.
Ferrycraigs
Member
Completely agree. But of course leaving it highly charged for a while, and frequent charging to a high SoC are two related but separate issues. I have always found this chart compelling.
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