BBC Article - Tesla Whistleblower

[GRiLLA]

AEB is now required by Euro NCAP for a car to get a 5 star rating. I'm not certain, but I believe part of the requirement is that it can't be turned off permanently, so it's not a Tesla decision. Unless you count them wanting to have a 5 star rating as part of that decision. Certainly not arrogance. I suspect you would find the same situation with any new car in the same price bracket, though a lot still seem to have their version of AEB as an optional extra (and no 5 star rating, if that's the case).

More than that, AEB is mandatory for type approval of all new cars under EU regulation since 2022, and existing new car sales will need to include it from next year. It's shown to have a 38% reduction is rear end crashes, and is forecast to save 1100 lives in the UK each year.

While I appreciate the OPs experience will have been scary, however being distracted and rear ending a car in front is a far more real risk as it happens every day. I've yet to see anyone on here where an accident was actually caused by AEB or Autopilot backing off.

Are other manufacturers AEB systems more reliable than Tesla's ? It seems pretty easy to find similar incidents from other brands to Tesla

Investigation: VW and Audi Brake Systems Randomly Engaging

Automatic Emergency Braking Systems, or AEB Sytems, are a good thing when they work as anticipated. Otherwise, they can provide a false sense of security

www.motorbiscuit.com

 

[WllXM]

Are other manufacturers AEB systems more reliable than Tesla's ? It seems pretty easy to find similar incidents from other brands to Tesla

Investigation: VW and Audi Brake Systems Randomly Engaging

Automatic Emergency Braking Systems, or AEB Sytems, are a good thing when they work as anticipated. Otherwise, they can provide a false sense of security

www.motorbiscuit.com

To me, a radar based AEB is necessarily accurate : an obstacle is either there or not, otherwise, there wouldn't be anything to bounce the signal back.
While on Vision.... different story... a white car in front of you on a day with low sun glaring in front..... crash...

 

[GRiLLA]

To me, a radar based AEB is necessarily accurate : an obstacle is either there or not, otherwise, there wouldn't be anything to bounce the signal back.
While on Vision.... different story... a white car in front of you on a day with low sun glaring in front..... crash...

Hahahaha

There are lots of stationary things on a road, bridges, cones, litter, signs, the road etc. all of these reflect radar. Any radar based system has to spend a lot of time rejecting detections and determining which are real otherwise you would make no progress down the road. As such it can't be perfect.

Again, where are there examples of Tesla's rear ending without AEB kicking in?

 

[WllXM]

Again, where are there examples of Tesla's rear ending without AEB kicking in?

I don't know, how about that one ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/tesla-autopilot-crash-analysis/

Or this one?

Two people killed in I-75 accident after a Tesla crashed into a parked tractor-trailer

Two people are reported dead Wednesday after a car accident at a Gainesville rest area on Interstate 75. The crash happened around 2 p. m.

mycbs4.com

Plenty more if you google search

 

[Kotrado]

I think you need to take your car back to Tesla if that's the case. I've had my car a year now and whilst i've had the occasional phantom brake, its usually very light and quickly rectified by pressing the accelerator and over riding. If you're getting "slamming" at 70mph i think you have a fault on your car or you're doing something weird as that's not normal bevhaviour and i certainly have never experienced a "slamming" as you describe.

I think the same, I've experienced some phantom breaking, but nothing I will ever describe as "slamming" at 70mph. I don't know if it is just different people's perceptions or what but there are very different opinions on this matter on this forum.....

 

[Pagemakers]

SLAMMING is precisely the term I’d use. Many many many times.

 

[GRiLLA]

I don't know, how about that one ?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/tesla-autopilot-crash-analysis/

Or this one?

Two people killed in I-75 accident after a Tesla crashed into a parked tractor-trailer

Two people are reported dead Wednesday after a car accident at a Gainesville rest area on Interstate 75. The crash happened around 2 p. m.

mycbs4.com

View attachment 997532

Plenty more if you google search

You know in 2019 Tesla Model 3s used radar, right ? Debunking your own theory that vision is a problem,

As far as I can see no further evidence has yet been made public about the second accident from 2022, we will need to wait and see what was to blame, but you should know that all automated safety systems can be over ridden by driver actions.

 

[Kotrado]

SLAMMING is precisely the term I’d use. Many many many times.

Yes I know. That's why I've said that there are very different, if not opposite at all, views and perceptions of this issue.....

 

[WllXM]

You know in 2019 Tesla Model 3s used radar, right ? Debunking your own theory that vision is a problem,

It was on AP, that still used vision over radar at the time, from Tesla's own declaration to the NTSB highlighted below:

 

[spdpsba]

t was on AP, that still used vision over radar at the time, fro

It is not just vision that is prone to that sort of accident, see the link below.

AAA Finds Flaws In Automatic Emergency Braking

AAA research reveals AEB is better at spotting stationary vehicles, but speed poses challenges. Learn more about the research at WWW.CARPRO.COM.

www.carpro.com

 

[GRiLLA]

It was on AP, that still used vision over radar at the time, from Tesla's own declaration to the NTSB highlighted below:

View attachment 997537

Autopilot used to use Radar and Vision in conjunction, we used to get more phantom breaking back then as the radar would be triggered by static objects like bridges. Both sets of data fed into the model that identified where other objects are, which is what features like AEB are based on.

You are misinterpreting a sentence that is someone conversationally reporting on what something else said. It does not have the meaning you are inferring.

 

[Kansalis]

Are other manufacturers AEB systems more reliable than Tesla's ? It seems pretty easy to find similar incidents from other brands to Tesla

Small sample size of course, but not in my experience. I've only had AEB on one other car before my M3, the ID.3. It was significantly more sensitive than my M3 and & I had two full on AEB braking incidents in the 14 months that I had the car. Both in the exact same spot. It's a road on a slight incline with a shallow left followed by a right bend at the crest of the hill. There are always cars parked on the bend. The ID.3 would give a red warning probably 50% of the time I drove there, which was annoying as it's about 300m away from my driveway. The two instances it decided to brake were when a transit-sized van was parked in around the spot where the car with the roof box is in this grab from streetview.

My M3 has given the red car warning a small handful of times there, but nowhere near the frequency of the ID.3.

I can understand what's triggering it, especially in the wet and/or dark. It does look like the parked cars are in the lane ahead. That doesn't make it any less annoying, though!

 

[init6]

I think the same, I've experienced some phantom breaking, but nothing I will ever describe as "slamming" at 70mph. I don't know if it is just different people's perceptions or what but there are very different opinions on this matter on this forum.....

There's a spot on the road to my mother in law that always causes the car to 'slam' on the brakes. Once I watched the speedo as it 'slammed' the brakes on and it dropped from 70mph down to 59mph. And that was it. It's not easy to watch the screen when you're not expecting phantom brake, but perception of speed can be different to reality. As always with Tesla software YMMV.

 

[init6]

Small sample size of course, but not in my experience. I've only had AEB on one other car before my M3, the ID.3. It was significantly more sensitive than my M3 and & I had two full on AEB braking incidents in the 14 months that I had the car. Both in the exact same spot. It's a road on a slight incline with a shallow left followed by a right bend at the crest of the hill. There are always cars parked on the bend. The ID.3 would give a red warning probably 50% of the time I drove there, which was annoying as it's about 300m away from my driveway. The two instances it decided to brake were when a transit-sized van was parked in around the spot where the car with the roof box is in this grab from streetview.



My M3 has given the red car warning a small handful of times there, but nowhere near the frequency of the ID.3.

I can understand what's triggering it, especially in the wet and/or dark. It does look like the parked cars are in the lane ahead. That doesn't make it any less annoying, though!

I had the exact same problem in a previous radar equipped Jaguar. There's a junction on a bend near me where the car always detected the waiting vehicles as stationary objects in the road. Every single time.

 

[WannabeOwner]

There's a spot on the road to my mother in law that always causes the car to 'slam' on the brakes

Ah ... that's AI for you. "Are you SURE you want to visit Mother-in-Law?"

 

[init6]

Ah ... that's AI for you. "Are you SURE you want to visit Mother-in-Law?"

Sadly it does the same on the way back

 

[Pagemakers]

Well what do you know…

Elon Musk's Tesla recalls two million cars in US over Autopilot defect — BBC News

It follows investigation into crashes which occurred when firm's Autopilot system was in use.

stocks.apple.com

 

[init6]

Tesla's software is supposed to make sure that drivers are paying attention and that the feature is only in use in appropriate conditions, such as driving on highways.
But the US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said a two-year investigation of 956 Tesla crashes found that "the prominence and scope of the feature's controls may not be sufficient to prevent driver misuse".

More nag-ware due to people using autopilot in inappropriate settings?

 

[init6]

From the NHTSA report:

The remedy will incorporate additional controls and alerts to those already existing on affected vehicles to further encourage the driver to adhere to their continuous driving responsibility whenever Autosteer is engaged, which includes keeping their hands on the steering wheel and paying attention to the roadway. Depending on vehicle hardware, the additional controls will include, among others, increasing the prominence of visual alerts on the user interface, simplifying engagement and disengagement of Autosteer, additional checks upon engaging Autosteer and while using the feature outside controlled access highways and when approaching traffic controls, and eventual suspension from Autosteer use if the driver repeatedly fails to demonstrate continuous and sustained driving responsibility while the feature is engaged.

 

[GRiLLA]

From the NHTSA report:

I have always wondered why they allowed Autosteer on roads which were against their own recommendation, while NoAP would only enable on exactly that type of road.

I wonder if 'simplifying engagement and disengagement' is why we got the one press engagement option, seems likely.