Best for the street; wider tires on Aeros, 19 in Titan 7's, or 19 in Advan RGIII wheels?

[ElectricGhost]

Looking to improve the performance of my vehicle. I have a stock P3D-. I'm not a fan of the tires. I want to decrease the braking distance and increase the brake pedal feel (it feels dead compared to the accelerator). This has led me first to tires, then look into brake improvements such as pads.

I don't track but would like to maybe get into autocross a few times a year. Due to being a daily driver that will mostly almost completely be kept on the street, I have decided to go with PS4s tires, just have to figure out the sizes and if I should change wheels.

Option 1:
Keep stock aero wheels, add 245/45 PS4 tires.
- Tread width of 8.1 inch (half inch increase vs stock)
- Weight 25 lbs (same as stock)
- Pros: best compatibility, fill wheel gaps with not issues. A little higher but nothing noticeable means lower risk of bottoming out although that's not really an issue. This is the best compromise although I 'm not big on the look of even bigger tire sidewalls.

Option 2:
Keep stock aero wheels, add 245/40 PS4 tires.
- Tread width of 8.4 inch
- Weight 23 lbs
- Pros: 2 lbs lighter tires than OEM or 245/45 and more tread. I'm wondering if this will help slow the wheels more quickly and improve brake responsiveness in addition to compound and width increase
- Drops car about 0.3 inches and adds about 0.3 inches to wheel gap. May go with a slight suspension drop if I go this route if I can find springs that improve street ride. Considering UP mild springs but have seen bad reviews about plastic attachment parts braking and being left with the bill for the damages/terrible customer experiance.

Option 3:
Keep stock aero wheels, add 255/40 PS4 tires.
- Tread width of 8.7 inch
- Weight 25 lbs
- Wider tread gains but no weight gains vs OEM. Negligible decreases in ride height/wheel gap increases (1/10th of an inch). These are getting more expensive though.
- Max load rating is higher at 1709. I wonder if this will make the ride more stiff/harsh or be unnoticeable yet less likely to bend rims and improve cornering.

Option 4:
New wheels with 255 or 265 tires (likely 255's due to weight savings and cost although 265's make my mouth water. 265 may also add to paint wear behind the fenders due to rocks being thrown up I don't get fender flaps or the like)

4a) Titan 7 T-S5
- Forged and likely best durability for bad roads.
- 20 lbs, so a little over a lb in savings vs OEM without aero caps. Not much of an improvement beyond looks and wider tire compatibility.

4b) Yokohama ADVAN RGIII Wheels
- Lightest at 18.5 lbs
- Flow cast so not sure on durability
- My fav look by far! Would likely go this route if it weren't for the next issue
- May require rim modifications as I think MPP had to have a machine shop bore out the lug nut holes. If these aren't direct bolt on that's prob prohibitive as I don't want to risk modifications to wheels.

Also not sure about wheel hubs. May go with MPP light weight 2-piece rotors later on. Not sure how either of the above is compatible with those and/or OEM rotors.

 

[Msjulie]

I have MPP rotors front and rear on my car, doing so upfront *may* limit your rim size though. In may case, when I got them they did not offer a front rotor that would fit under 18" rims but that has changed. My car has OEM 19 anyway so no issue.

Stock pads, brake pedal feel doing the front made a noticeable difference in pedal feel. Not sure the rear, I put them on at different times and front gave the biggest change. I don't know if you would get the same sharper bite with the stock? size rim though, something to ask those folks.

I like the OEM 19 look even if not the lightest around. I wanted the rotors for 3 reasons - better heat dissipation (it's only been on the track one time though), pedal feel and just cause I like the look of them; car lost a couple pounds at all 4 corners with them as well.

MPP folks good to deal with too

 

[ElectricGhost]

I have MPP rotors front and rear on my car, doing so upfront *may* limit your rim size though. In may case, when I got them they did not offer a front rotor that would fit under 18" rims but that has changed. My car has OEM 19 anyway so no issue.

Stock pads, brake pedal feel doing the front made a noticeable difference in pedal feel. Not sure the rear, I put them on at different times and front gave the biggest change. I don't know if you would get the same sharper bite with the stock? size rim though, something to ask those folks.

I like the OEM 19 look even if not the lightest around. I wanted the rotors for 3 reasons - better heat dissipation (it's only been on the track one time though), pedal feel and just cause I like the look of them; car lost a couple pounds at all 4 corners with them as well.

MPP folks good to deal with too

So you have stock pads and just going with the larger MPP rotor on the front improved pedal feel? I didnt think it would be noticeable on the street since you arent heating up the rotors much. Unless its the weight savings and cooling; not the size or heat capacity of the rotor. Although the OEM sized MPP rotors probably cool better and the weight savings may help.

I was going to with the OEM sized MPP rotors for the cooling and weight. Maybe I should consider a size upgrade? Hmm

 

[kbecks13]

I was going to with the OEM sized MPP rotors for the cooling and weight. Maybe I should consider a size upgrade? Hmm

I would fit the biggest rotor possible for maximum heat capacity and increased dissipation, the car is super heavy and the brakes get hot. Also keep in mind that when fitting a 255 tire on an 8.5" wheel you almost certainly won't get 8.7 tread width since the wheel isn't stretching the tire like a wider one would and you also will have worse response/feel due to having the extra unstretched rubber.

There are other wheels out there besides forged (though Titan 7 is a great option), check out VMR for one example. Flow formed wheels should be plenty strong as long as they have a good weight rating (1600+ lb)

PS - I'm also surprised that changing just the rotors and not pads had an impact on brake feel. I changed pads and not rotors and definitely noticed a change. Planning to try out the new MPP brake brace as well!

 

[Msjulie]

So you have stock pads and just going with the larger MPP rotor on the front improved pedal feel? I didnt think it would be noticeable on the street since you arent heating up the rotors much. Unless its the weight savings and cooling; not the size or heat capacity of the rotor. Although the OEM sized MPP rotors probably cool better and the weight savings may help.

I was going to with the OEM sized MPP rotors for the cooling and weight. Maybe I should consider a size upgrade? Hmm

A bigger rotor generates more torque on the wheel and I was able to notice and appreciate the feel; on the track, the better heat rejection was important too. I had upgraded pads on the track but not full race pads and I did overheat them at a point so now I know better about that

Reach out to MPP and see how they advise I guess?

 

[ElectricGhost]

I would fit the biggest rotor possible for maximum heat capacity and increased dissipation, the car is super heavy and the brakes get hot. Also keep in mind that when fitting a 255 tire on an 8.5" wheel you almost certainly won't get 8.7 tread width since the wheel isn't stretching the tire like a wider one would and you also will have worse response/feel due to having the extra unstretched rubber.

There are other wheels out there besides forged (though Titan 7 is a great option), check out VMR for one example. Flow formed wheels should be plenty strong as long as they have a good weight rating (1600+ lb)

PS - I'm also surprised that changing just the rotors and not pads had an impact on brake feel. I changed pads and not rotors and definitely noticed a change. Planning to try out the new MPP brake brace as well!

I just orders MPP front street pads and brake brace. Excited for those while I’m considering tires and possibly wheels

 

[malio7028]

 

[malio7028]

i am form taiwan use advan rgiii 18*8.5J ET31

 

[malio7028]

i am form taiwan use advan rgiii 18*8.5J ET31

and use

F1A5 225/45/18
BC BR Coilovers
MPP Page Mill Stainless Steel Brake Lines

 

[malio7028]

it s model3 P

 

[ElectricGhost]

i am form taiwan use advan rgiii 18*8.5J ET31

Did you have to modify the wheels? Did you have to bore the bolt holes bigger? Are you using wheel spacers?

 

[malio7028]

[QUOTE =“ WesC，post：4741410，member：84142”]您是否必須修改車輪？您是否必須將螺栓孔洞？您在使用車輪墊片嗎？[/ QUOTE]

將安全範圍從12MM擴展到14.5MM沒問題，變化很小，ET31不使用墊片，絕對安全

 

[malio7028]

Did you have to modify the wheels? Did you have to bore the bolt holes bigger? Are you using wheel spacers?

There is no problem in extending the safety range from 12MM to 14.5MM, the changes are very small, ET31 does not use gaskets, absolutely safe

 

[Mash]

A bigger rotor generates more torque on the wheel and I was able to notice and appreciate the feel; on the track, the better heat rejection was important too. I had upgraded pads on the track but not full race pads and I did overheat them at a point so now I know better about that

Reach out to MPP and see how they advise I guess?

I'm sorry, but that's not how it works. Larger rotors don't have more torque at all. If they thicker they might shorten pedal travel. If they have better transfer of pad material - they will have higher friction and so less need for pedal pressure (but material of rotors everywhere the same, so it's just your usage).

 

[Msjulie]

Frictional brake with pressure-applying cylinder and pads - MATLAB

The larger rotor necessitates the outward movement of the caliper which does increase distance of the center point of the brake bad pad from the center of the wheel.

This one is easier to read

Disk Brakes - Force and Torque note this bit
r = mean radius (from center wheel to center pad) (m)

Whatever - I will say the brake feel on my car with the larger diameter rotors, same pads, is sharper and more immediate. Not gobs and gobs like breaking the rules of physics or anything but completely noticable.

 

[ElectricGhost]

I would fit the biggest rotor possible for maximum heat capacity and increased dissipation, the car is super heavy and the brakes get hot. Also keep in mind that when fitting a 255 tire on an 8.5" wheel you almost certainly won't get 8.7 tread width since the wheel isn't stretching the tire like a wider one would and you also will have worse response/feel due to having the extra unstretched rubber.

There are other wheels out there besides forged (though Titan 7 is a great option), check out VMR for one example. Flow formed wheels should be plenty strong as long as they have a good weight rating (1600+ lb)

PS - I'm also surprised that changing just the rotors and not pads had an impact on brake feel. I changed pads and not rotors and definitely noticed a change. Planning to try out the new MPP brake brace as well!

Understand the bigger rotor push but I currently don't track the car. If I did it would likely only be autocross. So for the street I am still leaning toward MPP but am leaning towards the OEM sized rotors. Im banking on that the weight savings and cooling (vs OEM) provide better street performance than the added heat capacity and equally better than OEM cooling of the larger rotor.

The tread will still be wider with eh 255s and they weigh the same. The lack of feel from the tires is an excellent point though. I wish I could get an idea how much I will notice that. Especially on the street. The added sidewall may prevent rim scuffing which is helpful. I'm pretty good at not doing that but I have done it once in the 20 months I have had my 3.

 

[ElectricGhost]

I'm sorry, but that's not how it works. Larger rotors don't have more torque at all. If they thicker they might shorten pedal travel. If they have better transfer of pad material - they will have higher friction and so less need for pedal pressure (but material of rotors everywhere the same, so it's just your usage).

Pedal transfer and pedal pressure are both issues I'm looking to make better. The MPP sport pads and brake brace are step 1. Any other ideas?

Are there factory adjustments for pedal transfer? There seems to be several mm, maybe a full cm of gap between the pressing the pedal and brakes being applied. Then I think I'm feeling the deflection MPP is trying to adjust with the brake bracket. Last I feel way too much pedal pressure is required. I checked the brake fluid and it seems to be at the right level too. Would love higher pressure lines, less pedal dead space, no brake brace deflection, better bite (sport pads should help). I haven't noticed fading on the street yet but that might be part of what I'm feeling as higher pressure requirements. Tires will also help but it's just such a heavy car.

Really I wish someone would come out with a BBK that addressed all of the above that I could try out before I used. I can't tell how BBK perform until I buy them which makes them a none starter. I wonder about master cylinder pressure increases, feel and bite of higher piston calipers on larger rotors that don't weigh more than OEM, removal of fade that I might be feeling unknowingly, etc. I want a full up professional grade street performance brake setup.

 

[Mash]

You have to have some gap, otherwise brake pads will be always rubbing rotors. Higher friction pads are going to decrease pedal pressure vs brake force. I would do that and steel lines.

Brake caliper adapter does nothing for performance - brakes push both sides of the rotor, so unless the caliper itself expands - it's either air in the system or brake lines or rough rotor/pad surface that makes brake pedal soft.

I'm planning to test 4 different calipers expansion under pressure. I wish that ScanMyTesla found brake pressure data to make sure it's an even test, but I will try to simulate that.

 

[Mash]

Frictional brake with pressure-applying cylinder and pads - MATLAB

The larger rotor necessitates the outward movement of the caliper which does increase distance of the center point of the brake bad pad from the center of the wheel.

This one is easier to read

Disk Brakes - Force and Torque note this bit
r = mean radius (from center wheel to center pad) (m)

Whatever - I will say the brake feel on my car with the larger diameter rotors, same pads, is sharper and more immediate. Not gobs and gobs like breaking the rules of physics or anything but completely noticable.

Hey, I forgot that MPP comes with a bracket. Then, yes, it will be higher torque.