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Beta is "Dangerous"?

Is this an accurate analysis or sensational journalism? I do not have the beta so I don't know. The Tesla driver "signs" a release however other drivers and pedestrians do not agree to be part of the experiment.

 
If used recklessly, the beta can be dangerous. But that can be said of any vehicle on the road.

If used responsibly, the beta cannot do anything you don't let it do.

If a (different, theoretical)manufacturer should build a faulty steering linkage into a model (full of faults) then .... if the driver compensates for the unpredictable steering it is, in fact, NOT dangerous? Because "If used responsibly, it cannot do anything you don't let it do."?

I struggle with this proposition. I don't know the answer. I DO know that my autopilot jerks the steering wheel to the left or right (sometimes in intersections aimed at oncoming traffic) and it is heart-stopping. Yes, full attention has avoided calamity (so far).

Is the Road and Track article based on faulty logic?
 
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Tam

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
10,755
9,800
Visalia, CA
Is this an accurate analysis or sensational journalism?...

If someone abuses the correct use of a tool, it is dangerous no matter whether it's beta or a proven product.

Whether it's beta or a proven product, when something goes wrong because of misuse, the user and the surrounding innocent bystanders can all be affected whether they have signed in for the hazards or not.

For example, electricity has been proven safe and effective since around 1882. It's a proven, not a beta product.

When an electrician abused the use by not reading the instruction that the ceiling fan is only for 120 Volts maximum and the fan was installed in 240 Volt power.

When the circuit breaker is turned on, the fan blew up in flame, the whole house is burned down and anyone in the proximity would be in trouble too.

The trouble that they did not sign up for.

Back to Tesla beta:

The steering and brake have been proven safe and effective.

The driver license is the proof that the driver has passed the test of operating the car safely including steering and braking.

The instruction to use a Tesla car is you've got to have your hands on the steering wheel with a torque at all times and ready to brake at any time.

Those instructions are pretty much standard whether the car is beta or proven product.

In any safe and proven car, if a driver doesn't put their hands on the steering wheel and ready to brake at any time could end up in a very bad result for the driver and anyone else who didn't sign up for the tragedy.

So the question is how to stop the abuse?

The government could issue the law that all household in the US would be 240V, none 120V so that there would be no mistake of hooking a 120V to 240V line.

That could be done but it could create a whole bunch of problems.

The government could issue the law that all consumer products cannot be beta. That could be done because Waymo has never sold its product until its product will graduate from beta status.

But while waiting for a completed product and banning beta products, would anyone consider that although Tesla cars do have accidents and deaths but comparing to the rest of the population, it's much less?


It's a knee-jerk reaction to scream battery fire, Tesla accidents but the safety statistics are on Tesla's side even when it's beta.
 
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Not sure I ever recall the bolt-on cruise control, turbo chargers, super chargers, tranny brakes, nitrous, lift kits, or worse on 60's or 70's cars were ever considered "dangerous" like FSD is today among its enthusiasts. Not sure how these kinds of mods are any less dangerous than an attentive driver of FSD. Heck, don't even think about motorcycles or ATV'S.

I also wonder if we had the button today, how many who paid for FSD would decline because it is too dangerous for the population as a whole. Maybe a couple but I doubt many.

Times are changing. Some changes are not necessarily for the better.
 
@Tam, well said. Yes, that road and track article along with other similar ones this past week or two, are click bait misrepresenting the intentions of recent fsdbeta 8.2 videos. The recent tester videos that have shown some of the challenges in the latest SW have been seized upon by EV (or Tesla) doubters/haters to further muddy the waters, scare the unsuspecting, and intentionally misdirect/shape public opinion. Unsurprisingly these “journalists” were nowhere to be found for the most part of the past 5 months of fsdbeta testing with the huge pile of positive videos showing amazing and legit sw progress. But have one or two testers put out a video showing some of the fails, and boom, you’d think Tesla was putting a loaded gun in the hands of children. It’s such transparent FUD.

The argument that goes “well the tester may have agreed to be a beta tester, but I didn’t! What about the rest of us on the road! We didn’t agree to the testing!” holds zero water. It’s illogical, and a strawman argument. I didn’t agree to get drunk when I drive but guess what, drunk drivers are out there. The reality in “grown-up land” is that when you take a car onto public roadways, you agree to be a safe and responsible driver, whether you’re a Honda Civic driver or a Tesla fsdbeta tester.

The fsdbeta testers I’ve followed are conscientious, good drivers. The ones who weren’t were pulled from the beta program.
 
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bob_p

Active Member
Apr 5, 2012
3,738
2,947
FSD beta is dangerous only if the driver isn't monitoring the vehicle's operation - just like any other driver assistance feature, including TACC and even basic cruise control. Even if it appears FSD is correctly driving the vehicle, there is always the possibility something unexpected will happen or the software will make a mistake - and then it's the driver's responsibility.

And systems that are designed to verify the driver is actually paying attention are also fallible - requiring the driver to have hands on the steering wheel or to be looking forward, doesn't guarantee the driver is really paying attention to what the driver assist features are doing.

There are going to be risks in placing unfinished software in the hands of customers - however, doing so will help accelerate maturing of the software and achieving a system that can operate without driver monitoring. Assuming Tesla's hardware and software strategy are on a path for successful FSD, they may be in a much better position to achieve FSD in most (if not all) driving conditions and situations - while other manufacturers limiting their testing to a small number of vehicles or only simulations, may only have enough data to get their FSD operating in limited areas.

If when the big "DOWNLOAD BETA" button appears, only those customers willing to accept responsibility for operating the vehicle under FSD beta should download the beta software and activate it. And even then, those drivers should also be prepared to help Tesla by reporting any problems that they WILL encounter. Otherwise, don't download it...
 

Duffer

TSLA Long
Oct 19, 2017
464
1,631
NorCal
Is this an accurate analysis or sensational journalism? I do not have the beta so I don't know. The Tesla driver "signs" a release however other drivers and pedestrians do not agree to be part of the experiment.

This is just another attempt to spread FUD (Fear Uncertainty, Doubt) to shape public opinion and give the bots a reason drop the stock price. The same "points" were in a LA Times article to President Biden back in January. Remember, the media needs the advertising dollars from Big Oil and Big Auto. Tesla doesn't advertise so is fair game for these type of articles
 

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