Blog Boring Company Opens Vegas Loop

The Boring Company’s people-moving “Loop” be beneath the Las Vegas Convention Center started carrying passengers this week.

The $52.5 million tunnel is filled with Tesla vehicles that carry passengers around the 1.7-mile stretch.

The construction took about 18 months and was finished about two months ago. The system is ten-times faster than walking around the convention center.

“We’re grateful to the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority and all local stakeholders for providing us the opportunity to construct our first commercial project in one of the world’s most dynamic destinations,” Boring Co. President Steve Davis said in a statement reported by The Los Angeles Business Journal. “We are proud to have developed and delivered an exciting transportation solution to the Las Vegas Convention Center.”

The Loop currently consists of three passenger stations.  Passengers can travel the entire route in about two minutes at speeds of up to 40 miles per hour. The company ultimately plans to use a fleet of 62 Tesla vehicles that can carry up to 4,400 people per hour.

 

[Dan D.]

"That Tesla transit tunnel under the Las Vegas Convention Center just barely met the passenger-carrying thresholds set for it, but that apparently hasn’t dampened enthusiasm for Elon Musk’s modest-capacity, Tesla-powered subway in Vegas. "

Talk about moving the goalposts. There where specs set. Boring met them ALREADY. They will be improving capacity in stages beyond the stated goal.

What Boring met with their test was a rigged unrealistic demonstration using a few dozen trained volunteers. They stood by the cars and repeatedly got in, were driven to the next station, got out, then got in to another car - until they were all good at it.

They estimated 4400 people per hour at platform-level-only using a simulation. There were around 100 motivated and enthusiastic invitation-only Tesla fans, in a completely unrealistic situation over two hours of testing, and they extrapolated the best hop in/hop out times.

What was not demonstrated was a legitimate test of the entire throughput from top of escalator entry of the station, with full-trips of entirely unfamiliar transit users. Nothing about having an actual 4400 people lining up in queues, handling congestion, unfamiliar users, mobility challenged users, handling luggage or bags of purchases.


The event calls for attendees to take as many rides as they can in a two-hour time period to test out the proposed 4,400 person per hour capacity noted by Boring.

Boring Co. underground loop to be put to the test

An invite only capacity test of the 0.8 mile in direction tunnel transportation system will take place Tuesday, according to Lori Nelson-Kraft, Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority spokeswom...

www.reviewjournal.com

Testers, who had signed up for the event last week, were given the change [sic] to ride in any of the vehicles by simply walking up and getting in to an empty Tesla. The car would then drive through the tunnel, with a driver behind the wheel for now, at speeds of up to 40mph, before dropping the riders off at the next station. Testers were told to find another car and complete another ride, with each one taking less than one minute.

The Boring Company Las Vegas tunnels gets first capacity test

The Boring Company’s Las Vegas tunnels are getting closer to opening as the city prepares to ease COVID restrictions in the coming weeks. In preparation, the first capacity test was completed at the underground tunnels […]

driveteslacanada.ca

 

[kaffine]

Not sure how they plan to deal with towing in the event of a failure that means a vehicle can't roll?

They wouldn't take a fire truck into it. They'd run hoses in. Emergency exits would be the obvious locations if fire suppression systems don't work.

That can be a long run with hoses, they will come in from the fresh air side of the tunnel so it may be a long ways to run hose and lug equipment in and injured out. Then again maybe I have spent too much time underground. From what I saw the emergency exits are the ends of the tunnels.

 

[DarkandStormy]

"That Tesla transit tunnel under the Las Vegas Convention Center just barely met the passenger-carrying thresholds set for it, but that apparently hasn’t dampened enthusiasm for Elon Musk’s modest-capacity, Tesla-powered subway in Vegas. "

Talk about moving the goalposts. There where specs set. Boring met them ALREADY. They will be improving capacity in stages beyond the stated goal.

The LVCC Boring Loop hasn't come close to transporting 4,400 people per hour at several of the actual conventions held this year (with thousands of convention attendees). As noted above, the test was just a simulation, and a really poor one at that.

Maybe they will get there eventually, who knows. But they haven't come close (max I saw was <1,300 people per hour) yet. TBC faces fines for each large convention they fail to transport at the stated rate.

 

[Knightshade]

Maybe they will get there eventually, who knows. But they haven't come close (max I saw was <1,300 people per hour) yet. TBC faces fines for each large convention they fail to transport at the stated rate.

You noted it has been used for multiple conventions already.

How many were they fined for failure to move people fast enough?

Is it zero?

 

[Dan D.]

The LVCC Boring Loop hasn't come close to transporting 4,400 people per hour at several of the actual conventions held this year (with thousands of convention attendees). As noted above, the test was just a simulation, and a really poor one at that.

Maybe they will get there eventually, who knows. But they haven't come close (max I saw was <1,300 people per hour) yet. TBC faces fines for each large convention they fail to transport at the stated rate.

Leaving aside the claim of whether TBC has strenuously demonstrated a successful capacity test. Let's just spare a thought for the ridiculous design intent of the system.

LVCC asked for a transportation system capable of moving 4,400 people per hour. That's 73 per minute, or 24 per minute from each station. Think about that, 24 people per minute.

LVCC has a capacity of 200,000 people. Even being generous and supposing only 20,000 people are leaving at the end of a show in the West Hall - often people do stay to the end of shows & events. They would be facing a wait of up to 820 minutes (13.6 hours) to transit to the Center or East stations.

Reduce it to only 2,000 people at an event, now they only have to wait up to 82 minutes (1.4 hours). There are hundreds of meeting rooms with up to 2,500 capacity each. These meetings could finish at any time of the day. The two end stations are outside, so it could be blazing hot when you're lining up.

Even if TBC can meet the target, or even exceed it, the system is useless for busy conventions & events. Who is going to bother waiting for hours?

In comparision, people movers in airports can transport 20x the number of people. "designed to carry up to 43,000 passengers per hour per direction"

People mover and monorail: Efficient solutions for urban and airport transit

The Innovia automated people mover (APM) system and the Innovia monorail system embody the evolution of successful and dependable transit operations over many years. These systems operate on dedicated guideways and are characterised by exceptional route flexibility, outstanding availability and...

rail.bombardier.com

But that's what LVCC asked for.

 

[Knightshade]

I mean, the previous systems capacity was... 0 people per hour. You just had to walk.

4400 an hour is a decent improvement.


And having actually attended stuff there (have you?) it's pretty uncommon to have to keep bouncing around between the far ends of different buildings like that after each thing.

200k capacity for the ENTIRE campus perhaps, but any given convention is typically much much smaller than that...

You can count on one hand, without using your thumb, the number of conventions in Vegas with even 100k people attending (CES, SEMA, ConExpo, and NAB... that's it).

There's another half dozen or so in the roughly 50-80k total attendance range (these are all precovid #s anyway... one of these is World of Concrete which the loop was operating at but total attendance was smaller than usual) and the many dozens remaining are all much smaller still

 

[Dan D.]

I mean, the previous systems capacity was... 0 people per hour. You just had to walk.

4400 an hour is a decent improvement.


And having actually attended stuff there (have you?) it's pretty uncommon to have to keep bouncing around between the far ends of different buildings like that after each thing.

200k capacity for the ENTIRE campus perhaps, but any given convention is typically much much smaller than that...

You can count on one hand, without using your thumb, the number of conventions in Vegas with even 100k people attending (CES, SEMA, ConExpo, and NAB... that's it).

There's another half dozen or so in the roughly 50-80k total attendance range (these are all precovid #s anyway... one of these is World of Concrete which the loop was operating at but total attendance was smaller than usual) and the many dozens remaining are all much smaller still

I've been to Vegas, but with Covid rules I haven't been for a couple of years. Hopefully will go back soon.

You don't need a big convention to show the limits of TBC loop. Like I said above, LVCC has hundreds of meeting rooms, imagine that only one of them lets out with 2,000 attendees, and let's suppose they all decide to take the Loop and go to the other side of the convention center for a second meeting. If those 2,000 attendees all lined up at one station it would take around 1.4 hours to get them all. Of course there are other people at the convention center too, so it would take longer.

And that's just one meeting room, and doesn't even account for the main convention halls. Who said people wanted to bounce around from one end to the other? TBC Loop can't even move 800 people from one end to the other in half an hour.

800 people from one station, based on 4,400 pph system capacity for three stations =800/4400*(60*3)=32 minutes. They have said their 4,400 capacity is split over three stations, not 4,400 per station.

Sure waiting 30 minutes to move 800 people is an improvement over nothing, I guess. But really most people will just give up and walk there quicker. And for anything over 800 people, say 50,000 people or 100,000 people the Loop is like emptying a pond with a bucket.

 

[Knightshade]

I've been to Vegas, but with Covid rules I haven't been for a couple of years. Hopefully will go back soon.

You don't need a big convention to show the limits of TBC loop. Like I said above, LVCC has hundreds of meeting rooms, imagine that only one of them lets out with 2,000 attendees, and let's suppose they all decide to take the Loop and go to the other side of the convention center for a second meeting.

Why do you think a convention with only 2000 people is using all the multiple buildings of a 200,000 person facility?

They're not.

Their next meeting is gonna be in the same building, probably a couple minute walk away.


The LVCC is massive

It's like a 45 minute walk if you wanna go from the far end to the other far end.

Nobody was making that meeting BEFORE the loop either- because that meeting did not exist.


If you wanna keep making up imaginary situations I'm sure you can find plenty of imaginary problems though.

And that's just one meeting room, and doesn't even account for the main convention halls. Who said people wanted to bounce around from one end to the other?

You did.

If the meeting was in the same building you wouldn't use the loop at all. You'd walk. Just like before the loop.

Sure waiting 30 minutes to move 800 people is an improvement over nothing, I guess. But really most people will just give up and walk there quicker.

Since the walk from one end to the other is 45 minutes- no, they would not walk and get there quicker.

It's literally faster to wait half an hour than to walk.

Again you don't appear to have ever actually been to the LVCC. It's incredibly big.

For anything other than the tiny handful of REALLY MASSIVE events (the 4 I named) you're most likely to actually need to go clear from one end to the other only to get nearer to side of the site you want to exit the site (for hotel, food, whatever) or to get nearer the side of your event when approaching the site from the other side--- not to "attend another meeting of the same event 5 minutes later"

And even better since the system will be expanding to those other hotels- you'll be able to go directly to/from those to the right stop in the future as well.



And obviously the system will get even faster once the local rules restricting speed and allowing autosteer are relaxed too.

 

[Dan D.]

Why do you think a convention with only 2000 people is using all the multiple buildings of a 200,000 person facility?

They're not.

Their next meeting is gonna be in the same building, probably a couple minute walk away.


The LVCC is massive

It's like a 45 minute walk if you wanna go from the far end to the other far end.

Nobody was making that meeting BEFORE the loop either- because that meeting did not exist.


If you wanna keep making up imaginary situations I'm sure you can find plenty of imaginary problems though.





You did.

If the meeting was in the same building you wouldn't use the loop at all. You'd walk. Just like before the loop.





Since the walk from one end to the other is 45 minutes- no, they would not walk and get there quicker.

It's literally faster to wait half an hour than to walk.

Again you don't appear to have ever actually been to the LVCC. It's incredibly big.

For anything other than the tiny handful of REALLY MASSIVE events (the 4 I named) you're most likely to actually need to go clear from one end to the other only to get nearer to side of the site you want to exit the site (for hotel, food, whatever) or to get nearer the side of your event when approaching the site from the other side--- not to "attend another meeting of the same event 5 minutes later"

And even better since the system will be expanding to those other hotels- you'll be able to go directly to/from those to the right stop in the future as well.



And obviously the system will get even faster once the local rules restricting speed and allowing autosteer are relaxed too.

Fine, debate my hypothetical situations all you want. The basic problem is this:

LVCC holds up to 200,000 people.
TBC Loop moves 24 people per minute per station.

Maybe in the future it will be quicker and automated. Maybe.

 

[Knightshade]

Fine, debate my hypothetical situations all you want. The basic problem is this:

LVCC holds up to 200,000 people.

Who are never all attending the same convention- so you bringing it up, even after having it explained to you why this # isn't relevant, reinforces you're not arguing honestly.

TBC Loop moves 24 people per minute per station.

Which appears to be just fine if you consider how the ACTUAL movement happens in real life instead of imaginary FUD scenarios.

Especially since for the previous 60 years there was no alternative at all at the LVCC to get around besides walking.

 

[jwdphotog]

I attended SEMA/AAPEX everyday Monday through Friday. Unfortunately the Tesla Loop only served SEMA. The wait times were reasonable but the coordination and utilization was poor. On average, even though there were lines of individuals waiting, only two got into a car at any particular station. All 60 cars were driven completely manually for the entire tube runs.

The placement of the West and South Hall stations were at the extreme ends of the respective halls so that you ended up adding a 10 to 20 minute walk from the actual convention meeting areas to the Loop station.

As a Las Vegan (well, live in the mountains outside of Vegas), I think the money was poorly spent on the system and would have been much better spent on increasing the highly efficient 100% driverless Monorail system.

 

[Knightshade]

As a Las Vegan (well, live in the mountains outside of Vegas), I think the money was poorly spent on the system and would have been much better spent on increasing the highly efficient 100% driverless Monorail system.

LOL.

You mean the one that's gone bankrupt twice already because it sucks so badly?

That issue you mention about the stations for the loop being badly placed so you have to walk 10+ minutes to get to the place you actually wanna go?

That's nearly every monorail station because they're at the WAY back of the hotel/casino not near anything, and it's crazy overpriced on top.

 

[kaffine]

You know the system is bad when a local thinks the monofail is a better system. Of course one of the big issues with the monorail here is it wasn't allowed to go to the airport.

I really wanted to like the system but it is horrible. They need to get rid of the cars. If they had pods you can walk onto and off of and carried more than 3 passengers it would be improved. While I can't blame the Boring company for the placement of the terminals the location of them is horrible. After riding in them I would be surprised if they ever go driverless. I hope they figure out how to make it useable before expanding the system. It would be good if they can fix the issues with it and expand it to the new stadium since they don't have parking.

I attended SEMA/AAPEX everyday Monday through Friday. Unfortunately the Tesla Loop only served SEMA. The wait times were reasonable but the coordination and utilization was poor. On average, even though there were lines of individuals waiting, only two got into a car at any particular station. All 60 cars were driven completely manually for the entire tube runs.

The placement of the West and South Hall stations were at the extreme ends of the respective halls so that you ended up adding a 10 to 20 minute walk from the actual convention meeting areas to the Loop station.

As a Las Vegan (well, live in the mountains outside of Vegas), I think the money was poorly spent on the system and would have been much better spent on increasing the highly efficient 100% driverless Monorail system.

 

[Brando]

I've been to Vegas, but with Covid rules I haven't been for a couple of years. Hopefully will go back soon.

You don't need a big convention to show the limits of TBC loop. Like I said above, LVCC has hundreds of meeting rooms, imagine that only one of them lets out with 2,000 attendees, and let's suppose they all decide to take the Loop and go to the other side of the convention center for a second meeting. If those 2,000 attendees all lined up at one station it would take around 1.4 hours to get them all. Of course there are other people at the convention center too, so it would take longer.

And that's just one meeting room, and doesn't even account for the main convention halls. Who said people wanted to bounce around from one end to the other? TBC Loop can't even move 800 people from one end to the other in half an hour.

800 people from one station, based on 4,400 pph system capacity for three stations =800/4400*(60*3)=32 minutes. They have said their 4,400 capacity is split over three stations, not 4,400 per station.

Sure waiting 30 minutes to move 800 people is an improvement over nothing, I guess. But really most people will just give up and walk there quicker. And for anything over 800 people, say 50,000 people or 100,000 people the Loop is like emptying a pond with a bucket.

Test was done = 4,400 /hour => 2,000 people in 30 min. Dan is great at arithmetic.

 

[Dan D.]

Test was done = 4,400 /hour => 2,000 people in 30 min. Dan is great at arithmetic.

4,400 people per hour is total unique trips in the system. People were leaving from all three stations at once so 4400/3=1467 departures per station per hour.

or 1467/60=24.4 departures per station per minute.

If you are standing in line, you only care about the speed of your station. Thus if there are 800 people in your line: 800/24.4=32 minutes to move 800 people at each station.

 

[Knightshade]

4,400 people per hour is total unique trips in the system. People were leaving from all three stations at once so 4400/3=1467 departures per station per hour.

or 1467/60=24.4 departures per station per minute.

If you are standing in line, you only care about the speed of your station. Thus if there are 800 people in your line: 800/24.4=32 minutes to move 800 people at each station.

How many times do you need it pointed out that very nearly 0 conventions, ever, will have massive #s of people at every station all needing to go WAY across the campus at the same time all the time?

So assuming ALL THREE stations will be similarly equally packed like that isn't how it'd work hardly ever.... maybe CES or NAB, but most conventions are gonna be confined to only a fraction of the campus. Your next panel or meeting is probably NOT going to be multiple buildings away- because a different convection is happening over there.


And even THEN....32 minutes to get from one side of the campus to the other is.... significantly faster than before the system was there when your only alternative was a 45 minute walk. And the 798 people ahead of you in line got there even faster than than you did!

 

[Dan D.]

How many times do you need it pointed out that very nearly 0 conventions, ever, will have massive #s of people at every station all needing to go WAY across the campus at the same time all the time?

So assuming ALL THREE stations will be similarly equally packed like that isn't how it'd work hardly ever.... maybe CES or NAB, but most conventions are gonna be confined to only a fraction of the campus. Your next panel or meeting is probably NOT going to be multiple buildings away- because a different convection is happening over there.


And even THEN....32 minutes to get from one side of the campus to the other is.... significantly faster than before the system was there when your only alternative was a 45 minute walk. And the 798 people ahead of you in line got there even faster than than you did!

I responded to @Brando who questioned the math.

 

[Knightshade]

I responded to @Brando who questioned the math.

Yes, and you did so by repeating an already debunked narrative that does not reflect how the system would actually be used in real life.

 

[Dan D.]

Yes, and you did so by repeating an already debunked narrative that does not reflect how the system would actually be used in real life.

@Brando said 4,400 people / hour meant >=2000 people per 30 minutes. I was correcting that number and pointing out that 30 minutes is ~800 people at each lineup. That was what Boring demonstrated, and that time is the only time that matters to each user - how long do I have to wait in line?

This point has nothing to do with conference size or whether it's quicker to walk or not.
The comment said "Dan is great at arithmetic" implying criticism. I have defended the calculation, that is all. Also, just because you debated a point I made a while ago does not make it "debunked".

 

[Knightshade]

Hey Dan- CES going on right now.

Reports are the system is working great and nobody is waiting in those 30+ minute lines you insisted would be there.

Boring Co. loop handles CES rush with no hangups

Day 1 of CES was the second big test of the Boring Co.’s underground transportation system at the Las Vegas Convention Center and it handled the convention traffic with ease.

www.reviewjournal.com

100,000 attendees. No issues, no long lines.