TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Brain impact from launches ?

Discussion in 'Model S' started by ElectricTundra, Apr 2, 2015.

  1. ElectricTundra

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Messages:
    532
    Location:
    Tundra
    I was talking with someone today about Tesla's and offered them a ride in mine. They gave a quite emphatic no and said that they'd ridden in someone else's P85D a few weeks ago and had an achy feeling head for nearly a day afterwards and said that it'd begun after a launch (and said that they had their head back against the headrest prior to the launch so it wasn't a head jerk). Any neurology types on here that can share some expertise?
     
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    4,589
    Location:
    Nixa, Missouri, United States
    Doubt that it's a brain issue, more likely a cervical strain issue equating to something more of a muscle tension headache. I suppose one could slam their head back against the headrest hard enough to sustain a very minor concussion if you were predisposed to them (like from many prior closed head injuries/concussions), but the normal healthy person I don't think that is likely.
     
  3. jerjozwik

    jerjozwik Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2014
    Messages:
    700
    Location:
    san gabriel valley
    I await the detached optical nerves.
     
  4. Damiano

    Damiano Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2014
    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Most likely acute hypochondria.
    The 1g of acceleration when you "launch" the P85D is literally the same magnitude of force constantly applied the brain by gravity. And that 1g is exceeded by many other activities like jerking your head around during active exercise, skiing, etc.
     
  5. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2009
    Messages:
    4,589
    Location:
    Nixa, Missouri, United States
    Well, yes and no. IIRC, it is closer to 1.4G on acceleration. And a major difference is that when you're just standing there that 1G of force is a smooth steady pressure. But if you hold your head 1 foot off the ground and drop it to the ground with 1.4G of force (as it would be for your head being slammed back against a headrest on launch) then you have risk for the brain being sloshed around and sustaining a potential coup and contracoup type impact injury from the inside of the skull. If you fall from the 2nd floor of a building it's "only" 1G of force...until you hit.

    This is more a F=MV squared type issue than a gravity issue.

    That said, I agree that it's more likely hypochondria.
     
  6. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,645
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    Not an MD - just a mathematician with a bit of physics knowledge...
    The force to be worried about shouldn't be the 1.4G of acceleration, but instead the deceleration as your head hits the headrest. That could be significantly higher than those 1.4G.
    Current research seems to indicate that repeated exposure to deceleration of 4 - 10G could cause long term negative effects (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC155415/).
    But my understanding of what a bit of googling showed me seems to indicate that the likelihood of trauma from deceleration with less than 4G is rather unlikely. And if the passenger really had their head on the headrest the deceleration would equal the acceleration so a maximum of 1.4G. So I'd go with hypochondria as well. Or more likely the head wasn't really on the headrest and a soft tissue issue resulted which caused a head ache as a side effect.
     
  7. mhpr262

    mhpr262 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2012
    Messages:
    409
    Location:
    Old Europe
    If this gets out, we will see a rash of lawsuits from all the people who were given testrides in a D and who will seek compensation for every headache they will ever get for the rest of their lives due to that traumatic experience ...
     
  8. inductionpowered

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2015
    Messages:
    14
    Location:
    OC, California
    This falls in the bucket of #firstworldproblems (or #teslaproblems) if there ever was one :D
     
  9. dirkhh

    dirkhh Middle-aged Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2013
    Messages:
    3,645
    Location:
    Portland, OR, USA
    And which part of the topics mainly discussed here in the Model S sub forum on TMC does NOT fall into the #firstworldproblems category, exactly?
    (I restricted this to the Model S sub forum to avoid the immediate discussion of climate change and the discussion on whether it exists and the snippiness that come from going down that rat hole)
    :)
     
  10. jzchen

    jzchen New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2015
    Messages:
    1
    My father, son, and I went on a P85D test drive. He complained, having being seated in the back seat, of having some sort of headache. I definitely did not do any kind of "insane" acceleration. Maybe due to some EMF?
     
  11. Lerxt

    Lerxt Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2014
    Messages:
    951
    Location:
    Hong Kong/Australia
    This sounds like an attempt to generate news stories along the lines of "Tesla is bad for your health", and get you to buy a BYD that does 0-60 in 12 seconds as it's healthier...
     
  12. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10,343
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    EMF values have been measured in Teslas before and found to be very low. There are threads about it. IMO no way your son's headache was because he was in a Tesla. And in an case, I am not aware of any peer reviewed research showing that exposure to EMF causes headaches.
     
  13. sundoc

    sundoc Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2014
    Messages:
    362
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    The first few days with my car I had headaches... this was due to the seal on the hatch not being proper and thus creating a 'pressure' in the car. There were a few other poster here who had similar issues... some slight adjustments of the rubber stoppers and problem solved!
     
  14. liuping

    liuping Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,858
    Location:
    San Diego
    I had that problem initially. It caused a "womp womp womp" pressure pulse at certain speeds. I was glad when service fixed on my first appointment.
     
  15. krisg81

    krisg81 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2014
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    CA
    This is your brain

    holding_egg.jpg

    This is your brain after a P85D launch

    EggPan.jpg

    Any Questions?
     
  16. Damiano

    Damiano Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2014
    Messages:
    56
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    The person in question had their head firmly planted against the seat, so there wouldn't have been any impact force. It sounds like the launch may have scared the guy, causing him to tense up. If the driver took his foot off the peddle all of a sudden, that might be enough to wrench a neck. I like the way we are all "wracking our brains" and "banging our heads against the wall" to figure out his hypochondria ;)
     
  17. SomeJoe7777

    SomeJoe7777 Marginally-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2015
    Messages:
    534
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    I had this experience when I test drove the P85D. I knew this would happen to me, though. I have a highly sensitive equilibrium/vestibular system, and rapidly changing lateral or longitudinal acceleration will always give me a long-lasting weird headache and/or bring on motion sickness.

    After I did a P85D launch I had a mild, foggy headache for the remainder of the day as I expected.

    In fact, this was actually one of the reasons I ended up ordering an 85D vice a P85D. I would probably only rarely use the insane mode because I don't want the headaches.

    However, this has nothing to do with the Tesla specifically. This is just my body's idiosyncrasies, and I've experiences this on many things including roller coasters, go-karts, aggressive curvy roads in a performance vehicle, and a few others. Oddly, it's only these rapidly changing acceleration patterns that do it. Slow-changing motion like boats or planes doesn't bother me.
     
  18. siai47

    siai47 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2014
    Messages:
    101
    Location:
    Deland, Fl.
    I don't know what causes this but it happened to me. My friend came down to visit me and we were in the area of the Tesla Gallery. We stopped to see if they had a P85D demonstrator. They did and we went for the demo ride. I was well aware of the forces that would be on my body (watched videos and read different threads about it) and thought I prepared for it. The first launch was like a semi truck had run into the back of the Tesla at about 50 MPH. In my wildest dreams I wasn't ready for it. After the second launch I was feeling a little strange and my friend in the back seat said he had enough. I didn't think too much about it at the time but felt really tired after we left the Gallery and headed to lunch. I mentioned how I felt to my friend at lunch and he said he also felt tired and a little bit strange. It seemed to persist for the remainder of the afternoon and then went away.
     
  19. Lump

    Lump Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2013
    Messages:
    2,102
    Location:
    So. Cal.
    +1

    I didn't order a P85 because I would get a head rush-buzz feeling then feel nauseous, This past weekend I had a P85D loaner & went for a couple of "drives" & just couldn't enjoy the car...had to get out & walk around for a few minutes. Pisses me off that I am only 48 years old & can't even floor the damn car.
     
  20. Mr X

    Mr X Future Owner

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2013
    Messages:
    854
    Location:
    Simi Valley, CA
    My head felt fuzzy after launches in the P85 and i thought that was insane.


    I can only imagine how it will feel in the D...
     

Share This Page