Broken Window Legal discussion

[whitex]

It's a California thing. Property crime was pretty much decriminalized a year ago.

Isn't that kind of expected in the People's Republic of California? "Property" is an evil capitalist concept not worthy of people's protection. The OP drives a Tesla, these guys just had an old Benz, so they were just taking their fair share to which they feel entitled. It's not their fault the California government just hasn't gotten around to formalizing the Fair Share Law, yet.

 

[mvotb]

Cheburashka has it right. You, and I unfortunately live in a State run by Hug-A-Thug politicians.There are no consequences to property crimes, and nothing will happen to them even if they are caught. That's why the cops don't care.

whitex said "It's not their fault the California government just hasn't gotten around to formalizing the Fair Share Law, yet."

They didn't need to, removing all consequences took care of that.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

Isn't that kind of expected in the People's Republic of California? "Property" is an evil capitalist concept not worthy of people's protection. The OP drives a Tesla, these guys just had an old Benz, so they were just taking their fair share to which they feel entitled. It's not their fault the California government just hasn't gotten around to formalizing the Fair Share Law, yet.

So much this.

 

[.jg.]

We have a similar situation in the UK, where police forces are refusing to investigate "minor crimes", such as theft or burglary - even where useful CCTV and other details are available. Reporting theft to the police in the UK will normally only result in the police issuing an incident number, to be used for an insurance claim.

 

[djlott]

Is poking fun at CA helpful here guys? I know a lot of folks outside the state think we only drink green tea, eat avocados and wave rainbow flags hoping for socialism. But I guarantee you that we get up every day, drink our coffee, kiss our families good bye and head off to work the same as other Americans.

Let's not bash on one of the very small handful of states that provides positive federal revenue that helped fund the $7500 tax credit many of you received when you purchased your Tesla. 7 million people live in the SF bay area. There are bound to be bad apples.

OP, sorry to hear of your troubles. It is something I fear will happen to me someday. I leave my hatchback in full open view to help deter thieves from breaking a window just to find nothing.

 

[energy7]

Is poking fun at CA helpful here guys? I know a lot of folks outside the state think we only drink green tea, eat avocados and wave rainbow flags hoping for socialism. But I guarantee you that we get up every day, drink our coffee, kiss our families good bye and head off to work the same as other Americans.

Let's not bash on one of the very small handful of states that provides positive federal revenue that helped fund the $7500 tax credit many of you received when you purchased your Tesla. 7 million people live in the SF bay area. There are bound to be bad apples.

OP, sorry to hear of your troubles. It is something I fear will happen to me someday. I leave my hatchback in full open view to help deter thieves from breaking a window just to find nothing.

Well worded. I think that regardless of the penalty for getting caught (short of having your hand cut off), thieves would still break in. What are the chances of getting caught? Probably pretty small. Risk vs. reward.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

California is huge and yes a broad brush stroke is not a fair assessment to you non coastal Californians. Mea Culpa.

 

[energy7]

We have a similar situation in the UK, where police forces are refusing to investigate "minor crimes", such as theft or burglary - even where useful CCTV and other details are available. Reporting theft to the police in the UK will normally only result in the police issuing an incident number, to be used for an insurance claim.

Sounds about the same as here

 

[SeminoleFSU]

We have a similar situation in the UK, where police forces are refusing to investigate "minor crimes", such as theft or burglary - even where useful CCTV and other details are available. Reporting theft to the police in the UK will normally only result in the police issuing an incident number, to be used for an insurance claim.

That's because Police are rapidly becoming nothing more than a revenue stream for governments. Gone are the days of "peace keepers". Now it's "law enforcement" AKA revenuers AKA road pirates.

 

[SeminoleFSU]

Is poking fun at CA helpful here guys? I know a lot of folks outside the state think we only drink green tea, eat avocados and wave rainbow flags hoping for socialism. But I guarantee you that we get up every day, drink our coffee, kiss our families good bye and head off to work the same as other Americans.

Let's not bash on one of the very small handful of states that provides positive federal revenue that helped fund the $7500 tax credit many of you received when you purchased your Tesla. 7 million people live in the SF bay area. There are bound to be bad apples.

OP, sorry to hear of your troubles. It is something I fear will happen to me someday. I leave my hatchback in full open view to help deter thieves from breaking a window just to find nothing.

Yes. It is helpful to occasionally laugh at the California insanity. Maybe one day the residents there will wake up and realize they've been lied to. Until then... We laugh to keep from crying (on your behalf)

As for the tax rebates, there are those of us who diaagree with all forms of welfare... Particularly CORPORATE welfare. In fact, it's likely we would've had worldwide ubiquitous electric vehicles much sooner had it not been for decades of subsidized big oil companies and ICE manufacturing. Heck the entire US dollar is backed by middle East oil AKA PETROdollar. If we had to pay what the rest of the world pays for gas these past 30+yrs there would've likely been 3-4 decent electric vehicle choices before Elon ever bought the rights to the Tesla brand.
I'd gladly give up my Tesla (and EV subsidies) in a heartbeat to see the US not bomb the entire world into submission for cheap crude oil if that meant fossils had to compete on a level playing field (no subsidies and no PETROdollar)

Enjoy this comment before the MODs move it to the "politics thread" but it's not politics. It's economics. It's true capitalism vs crony corporatism..

 

[whitex]

Is poking fun at CA helpful here guys? I know a lot of folks outside the state think we only drink green tea, eat avocados and wave rainbow flags hoping for socialism. But I guarantee you that we get up every day, drink our coffee, kiss our families good bye and head off to work the same as other Americans.

Of course when talking about the state we are not saying everyone. I'm sure there are many regular, hard working people who don't agree with what the state is doing (even beyond socialism), they are just in the voting minority. So this wasn't personal against you, I feel bad for you to have to live in such a state where smash and grab thefts are considered not a crime.

Let's not bash on one of the very small handful of states that provides positive federal revenue that helped fund the $7500 tax credit many of you received when you purchased your Tesla.

I am pretty sure the $7,500 comes from the taxes the person claiming it paid, rather than from any payments made by California.

7 million people live in the SF bay area. There are bound to be bad apples.

In other places, the police try to chase down the bad apples. Or do you mean the bad apples that vote-in California laws?

OP, sorry to hear of your troubles. It is something I fear will happen to me someday. I leave my hatchback in full open view to help deter thieves from breaking a window just to find nothing.

Again, sorry you have to live in a place where you have to live in fear of such things on daily basis, having to remember to empty your trunk every time you leave the car and leave it in open view to signal that you did it.

Hmm, maybe you could pay protection money to some gang in the Bay Area? Buy yourself some piece of mind. Any enterprising gangsters selling gang deals, so the thieves know to leave your car alone unless they want to have their legs broken?

EDIT: I was going to add a at the end of last sentence, but then realized that that is actually what ends up happening in situations like this, where the government doesn't provide sufficient protection to its citizens. If I was to make a poke at California, I would say "just wait until the Cali government requires you to pay protection for those who have less than you"

 

[whitex]

Here is a radical idea. This is California, why not use some Hollywood style defense? Hire some actors and stage a scene where some actor poses as an unlucky thief who tried breaking into a Tesla only to find out the owner booby trapped the triangular glass with a bear trap and he, or she, is now howling in pain while waiting for the ambulance. Take a video, share on youtube, make sure it makes some papers. Make website claiming to sell the bear trap kit for your Tesla (don't actually sell it, but enough for the media to get excited about it). Maybe repeat the scene maybe add a new "electrocution" booby trap where some owner wires up the car's battery to electrodes around the small window, leave a smoldering body (Hollywood prop of course) for people laying next to a Tesla with a broken window. It might make a few thieves think twice before breaking into your Tesla. Fake news to the rescue!

 

[whitex]

Cops came but did nothing. If the property damage is less than $1,000 they do not have the authority to even arrest the person.

So what you're telling me is that if you walk up to a parked, empty police car, put a brick through the side window to take a peek inside for any goodies, maybe help yourself to their lunch, the cops would just stand back and say "we don't have any authority to arrest you, have a nice day"? While I find it extremely hard to believe, but I guess anything is possible in California?

Or it could be cops telling you this because they just don't want to deal with it. I had an ex-contractor come with a crew and steal some construction materials, because he believed I should have paid him more than what he quoted for the job he did (by $500 on a $8K job). Cops came, caught them as they were driving off, then tried to tell me it's a "contract dispute" and they are not getting involved in this. I asked the guy to put it in writing and told him in that case I will hire a crew to steal back my materials and am planning to use his report to show to the next cop that this is a part of the same "contract dispute" so he stays out of it too. I told him I have no problems playing by the rules, I just need to know what the rules are. Then the cop changed his mind, charged the thief, who eventually plead out and paid restitution.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

Here is a radical idea. This is California, why not use some Hollywood style defense? Hire some actors and stage a scene where some actor poses as an unlucky thief who tried breaking into a Tesla only to find out the owner booby trapped the triangular glass with a bear trap and he, or she, is now howling in pain while waiting for the ambulance. Take a video, share on youtube, make sure it makes some papers. Make website claiming to sell the bear trap kit for your Tesla (don't actually sell it, but enough for the media to get excited about it). Maybe repeat the scene maybe add a new "electrocution" booby trap where some owner wires up the car's battery to electrodes around the small window, leave a smoldering body (Hollywood prop of course) for people laying next to a Tesla with a broken window. It might make a few thieves think twice before breaking into your Tesla. Fake news to the rescue!

Get the director who did The Purge movies - James DeMonaco... I'm sure he could come up with some creative public service announcement commercials.

If I lived in SF, I'd just own my beater Prius with 300K miles.

A year ago, a co-worker's right quarter panel glass was broken due to a break in. Back then, you could buy brand new glass for $120 from sellers on ebay or used for $80 on ebay.

Used now goes for $200 to $300. Wish I'd stock piled them several years ago. I could have made a killing.

Sounds like the glass guys might be in on it...

 

[whitex]

For our Seattle, Washington Tesla owners who I guess feel their car is maybe immune to break-ins or being stolen here's some info on the area. "In the past three years, the Seattle Police Department has received, more than 23,000 reports of break-ins to parked cars – that’s about 21 car prowls a day." No idea what the date of this article is so no idea how current the statistics are.

https://www.seattlepi.com/lists/sli...ods-have-the-most-car-66946/photo-4955555.php I hate having to advance throught 65 frames to see all the totals. They saved the neighborhoods with higher break-in numbers for the end.

The following Seattle Gov/Police site shows police reports and the type of crimes within 12 hours of report. The 23,000 total over 3 years has to be accounted for under some other category other than Motor Vehicle Theft in these reports probably because they are classified as a lesser crime than auto theft due to the monetary loss.

Online Crime Maps - Police | seattle.gov

From looking at the "911 Map" link, it shows the last 24 hours of police reports on a map and it looks like in Seattle there are more stolen cars (guess why take the time to break in a car when you can just steal the whole vehicle) than car break-ins, but I see a number of those too within the last 24 hours. The "SPD Records Map" is archived over weeks and months is pretty interesting.

And there's these recent articles on car break-ins. This from Seattle Q13Fox from June 26, 2018:
Victims of car break-ins in Wallingford frustrated over lack of police response Sounds like the neighborhood isn't getting any police responding to car break-ins. Interestingly a few of these cars had alarms going off but more cars were still hit in the area with the alarms in earshot. Oh and the neighbors affected bring up homeless and druggies as the potential source. Sounds familiar to SF Bay Area break-ins. Hmm.
This from another neighborhood from just Oct. 17, 2018: West Seattle Crime Watch: Car break-in at Lincoln Park which apparently made the news again just Nov. 12, 2018: West Seattle Crime Watch: Lincoln Park car break-ins

Interesting Reddit thread from Seattle, Washington car owners who have faced break-ins and what they did about it or commented on it: Car break-ins : SeattleWA Includes one who decided to leave his car unlocked--something a few people here have suggested. BTW doubt all these car break-ins are Teslas.

Point of this post is don't think you are immune to having your car broken into. Wonder how many arrests Seattle PD makes for break-ins, if the majority of them are prosecuted and where they house all those criminals found guilty.

Of course crimes occur everywhere. The problem is when the state just says "we don't care" - that's when people arm themselves and take things into their own hands, or pay protection to gangsters - no other alternatives to defend one's property.
6 customers draw guns on men attempting to steal from Marysville store

 

[whitex]

You changed the fact pattern to now involve a police car. I'm sure the police would view that a little differently.

I didn't change the facts, you said "If the property damage is less than $1,000 they do not have the authority to even arrest the person.". I just gave an example of property damage of less than $1,000. Or is fixing a police car window in CA more expensive than fixing a Tesla window (government contracts guarantee some friend of the governor a contract to fix windows at $5K a pop?)

But, ya: when I confronted the cops with the surveillance video clearly showing who did what, they complained that they did not have the authority to arrest anyone for property damage under $1,000. It wasn't that the cops didn't want to go after the guy - in fact, this cop was pissed that he couldn't - it's that they were under political directives not to.

So it is California politics thing then, in which case, do those politics make a distinction between your property and government property, or are you saying that if you damaged police property it would motivate the cops to violate the political directives? If they would react differently to police car damage than your car damage, that tells me they do have the power if they really wanted to - they just didn't really want to in your case.

 

[yo mama]

I didn't change the facts, you said "If the property damage is less than $1,000 they do not have the authority to even arrest the person.". I just gave an example of property damage of less than $1,000. Or is fixing a police car window in CA more expensive than fixing a Tesla window (government contracts guarantee some friend of the governor a contract to fix windows at $5K a pop?)


So it is California politics thing then, in which case, do those politics make a distinction between your property and government property, or are you saying that if you damaged police property it would motivate the cops to violate the political directives? If they would react differently to police car damage than your car damage, that tells me they do have the power, if they really wanted to, they just didn't really want to in your case.

To be clear, it's a San Francisco municipal thing - not a California thing. And it's not uncommon for crimes against public servants or public property to be legally differentiated from crimes against their private counter parts. But I didn't get the impression this was a legal distinction, more of a police resource allocation issue. In any event, given that this cop actually followed up with me when he didn't have to, how worked up he got about being handcuffed by municipal politics, the significant amount of time he spent with me, that he shared the video footage when he didn't even have to tell me that it existed, and what he offered to do for me offline to try to make it right, all run counter to any speculation that he could have done more but just didn't want to. If that were true, I suspect he'd never have followed up with me in the first place.

 

[jon1478]

I have had my Tesla for two years, never any problems. I've parked it all over the Bay Area and never had anything happen to it. 10 days ago, the car was broken into near the Bay Bridge/Embarcadero/SOMA. Little window smashed, big window smashes, lap stolen from the rear. That car is still in the shop waiting for the window to arrive but Tesla gave me a model S loaner. Tonight, the loaner had its little window smashed at 280/Saratoga in San Jose. The seat had been folded down but there was nothing in the car. This was a well-lit parking lot and I was only gone for an hour.

It's a frustrating problem that seems to be getting worse from what I'm reading. Is there anything Tesla can do to prevent this little window from being broken? Any stronger glass available for purchase just for that window? I don't know what the solution is besides throwing these thieves and thugs behind bars. I had been leaving the seat down and the rear cover open but forgot tonight since I always go to this shopping center for dinner, never thought twice about it.

My car had a front and rear camera and captured the break-in in SF (although it was dark). Here is a picture of the getaway car

Liberalism: political doctrine that takes protecting and enhancing the freedom of the individual to be the central problem of politics.

Gotta protect their rights/needs -- someone is obviously less fortunate. Just consider it another CA tax. Sorry for your lose.

 

[rooter]

Liberalism: political doctrine that takes protecting and enhancing the freedom of the individual to be the central problem of politics.

Gotta protect their rights/needs -- someone is obviously less fortunate. Just consider it another CA tax. Sorry for your lose.

So, as a conservative you have never advocated for less government intervention in our lives?

And now that they give you exactly what you wanted... you complain?!

You are a confused person.

 

[whitex]

So, as a conservative you have never advocated for less government intervention in our lives?

And now that they give you exactly what you wanted... you complain?!

You are a confused person.

I think you are confusing "less government intererence" with government protecting individual and property rights, which conservatives believe is the role of the government.

That said however, even if you don't believe it, less government means the government stays out of something, so in this case the government would be saying "citizens must protect their own cars" and therefore make it easier for car owners to arm themselves to protect their property. This is not what they are doing. What they are doing is more akin to "you want less government, sure, the government won't feed you, but they will will jail you if you feed yourself". The reason why governments are granted police powers is to protect people's rights and enforce laws. The alternative is anarchy, everyone enforces their own laws.