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Broker action surrounding GME etc on Jan-2021

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printf42

Active Member
Sep 29, 2018
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Several broker put on restrictions over GME and a few other stocks today.
For example in Robinhood they don’t allow you to buy them, if you don’t already have positions, you couldn’t even search for the tickers.

This is bluntly wrong.

I don’t mind if they rise margins, or say you can not buy if you use any margin at all.

But I am not using margin at all, who are they to tell me I can not do something with my own F*g money? Today they can say I can’t buy something, tomorrow they can say I can not sell some others?

I am definitely migrating out of RH because of this. (Disclaimer I don’t have any skin in any WSB games, I only have 1 share of GME just for the meme)

I want to start this thread so people could document which broker had done which, so when all is settled, we know where to move.

My observation today:
Robinhood:
  • Not able to buy a list of tickers.
  • Not able to search those tickers that I don’t have positions already.

Schwab:
  • Able to search tickers.
  • Placed order for 1x AMC and it filled. No error or retrying.

What are your observations so far?
Please document actions they officially communicated as well as implicit actions, order keep error out, could not fill market orders etc.
Thanks!
 
Last edited:
Several broker put on restrictions over GME and a few other stocks today.
For example in Robinhood they don’t allow you to buy them, if you don’t already have positions, you couldn’t even search for the tickers.

This is bluntly wrong.

I don’t mind if they rise margins, or say you can not buy if you use any margin at all.

But I am not using margin at all, who are they to tell me I can not do something with my own F*g money? Today they can say I can’t buy something, tomorrow they can say I can not sell some others?

I am definitely migrating out of RH because of this. (Disclaimer I don’t have any skin in any WSB games, I only have 1 share of GME just for the meme)

I want to start this thread so people could document which broker had done which, so when all is settled, we know where to move.

My observation today:
Robinhood:
  • Not able to buy a list of tickers.
  • Not able to search those tickers that I don’t have positions already.

Schwab:
  • Able to search tickers.
  • Placed order for 1x AMC and it filled. No error or retrying.

What are your observations so far?

I think it is systemic, unfortunately. Retail will always get screwed and the wall st. insiders will be saved. There has to be a new brokerage started that actually puts retail first, which might not be possible...
 
i rant a lot about IB and fidelity - two of the top brokers, for which i have accounts at both. i do my main trading at IB, but have significant account with fidelity too. i havent seen much from fidelity during this fiasco, so ill keep this post ib-centric and explain the background of why i waste my time, and yours, talking about this kind of stuff

IB has certain stocks in 'closing only' status, meaning you can close an existing position:
- buy to close short
- sell to close long
but cannot open a new long or short.

not opening a short i can understand, because it may be hard or impossible to borrow. therefore if they cannot locate shares to borrow internally or from another broker, they are not allowed to let you open or increase a short position, by regulations.

not being able to open
- long stock
- long call
- long put
with your own money, im dissatisfied with it. let me be clear, i have nothing to do with GME or said basket of securities, nor interest in opening a position. im just not comfortable with not being allowed to do with my own cash what i choose

ive expressed my concerns to my contacts. they will take with grain of salt...why?

rewind:
historically, IB is pretty conservative when it comes to risk mitigation and protecting itself, stakeholders, and customer base. its a company ~80% owned by Mr P himself and the rest mainly by executives that have been with him for 20-30 years, in other words, similar to a family owned shop. they have sophisticated order routing and risk mgmt tools that benefit its customers via excellent execution at lowest cost, and best margin rates. everything is automated. hence the lowest cost structure of the brokers while maintaining best execution rankings. they also have a 0 comm offering in LITE, thats better structurally than RH (IBs LITE orders go to Liq Providers, but they still can obtain NBBO, unlike the mugging their order will get from RH and other brokers' 0 commission offerings), but no pro is using that anyway.

when you throw a monkey wrench like GME into the mix, being halted 5-10x a day, prices going from 500 to 156 back to 300 in between halts...its kinda hard to protect against the inherent danger that exists:

- each order must pass real-time customer equity check, market impact, etc
- when you have swings like that, a particular customer order can pass cash/margin requirements one second, and fail them the next
- then you have to worry about counterparty and clearing house risk...can the other side afford to settle this trade?
- are the other brokers vetting their orders as carefully, and making sure their customers have the cash/equity to cover the trade (2008 anyone?)
- if it turns out your real-time risk mgtm system failed, you have 10bb in equity to cover such screw-ups (oil price fiasco last year cost them about 100mm)
- the gamestop options alone have about 10-15bb of PnL to spread around (he was just on cnbc talking about it)

bottom line: scenarios like this expose, and welcome to the table, systemic risk. a few hedge funds getting taken down 30% is just the tip of the iceberg.

in my view...raise the margin requirement, or make it all cash only would be sufficient.
however, that in itself will stifle much of the trade volume, though. so the damage is already done. taking the margin leverage out of the equation is a sure fire way to blow off some froth. i wish they didnt couple it with 'closing only' aspect.

and no theyre not in bed with MMs and large HFs, so stop. IBs prime services are too conservative to attract funds like that as customers, so those types wont do business with them, because IB vets the strategy/portfolio real-time and if the risk is past threshold, they have to pay exposure fee. no HF or prop shop will do that, so they go to the big prime brokers to play there, and get to do what they want, for example, explode like melvin and maplelane. ive been down that road with IB before. they are protecting their family owned business from market risk, not pandering to shorts. two different things, unfortunately easy to mistake the optics given the media frenzy and stuff going on at RH (did robinhood really liquidate customers long holdings at sub market prices - tweet could be fake?)

in a family-ish shop like IB, they arent going to let GME take out the firm. in their eyes, theyd be happy to let a handful of speculative customers leave for RH or wherever and take their gunslinger YOLO trading with them. and i get it. i dont blame them, and frankly, i dont want to hold an account at a firm that is loosely controlled. this is not to say that any firm anywhere cannot have a disastrous mistake that can impact your account. they can. i disagreed with @Nocturnal before when they said they wanted to leave ib, only because whats the alternative? its like going from one bad boyfriend/girlfriend to another when you change brokers. one does one thing to you, the next seems better until they screw with you in a different way; a trade, transfer, margin rate, corp action fees, not alerting you to something important, etc, etc.

all that said..i do not like the fact i cant open a trade with my cash. theres no risk there for the broker. its my $..not margin. i dont want to trade GME or that basket of junk... but if i did, and i couldnt, id be pissed - rant over
 
take off the-rose coloured glasses.
maybe with 'your contacts' you are a bit to close the situation to see it clearly?

this is no mom and pop corner store business. They are a 5 billion dollar company.

they’re a 27.21b dollar company. i know everyone is angry. but let me simplify.

they are overwhelmingly majority owned, therefore overwhelming majority of their equity at stake. therefore conservative with risk management, the customer activity they allow on platform, and the types of customer strategy they allow.
 
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i rant a lot about IB and fidelity - two of the top brokers, for which i have accounts at both. i do my main trading at IB, but have significant account with fidelity too. i havent seen much from fidelity during this fiasco, so ill keep this post ib-centric and explain the background of why i waste my time, and yours, talking about this kind of stuff

IB has certain stocks in 'closing only' status, meaning you can close an existing position:
- buy to close short
- sell to close long
but cannot open a new long or short.

not opening a short i can understand, because it may be hard or impossible to borrow. therefore if they cannot locate shares to borrow internally or from another broker, they are not allowed to let you open or increase a short position, by regulations.

not being able to open
- long stock
- long call
- long put
with your own money, im dissatisfied with it. let me be clear, i have nothing to do with GME or said basket of securities, nor interest in opening a position. im just not comfortable with not being allowed to do with my own cash what i choose

ive expressed my concerns to my contacts. they will take with grain of salt...why?

rewind:
historically, IB is pretty conservative when it comes to risk mitigation and protecting itself, stakeholders, and customer base. its a company ~80% owned by Mr P himself and the rest mainly by executives that have been with him for 20-30 years, in other words, similar to a family owned shop. they have sophisticated order routing and risk mgmt tools that benefit its customers via excellent execution at lowest cost, and best margin rates. everything is automated. hence the lowest cost structure of the brokers while maintaining best execution rankings. they also have a 0 comm offering in LITE, thats better structurally than RH (IBs LITE orders go to Liq Providers, but they still can obtain NBBO, unlike the mugging their order will get from RH and other brokers' 0 commission offerings), but no pro is using that anyway.

when you throw a monkey wrench like GME into the mix, being halted 5-10x a day, prices going from 500 to 156 back to 300 in between halts...its kinda hard to protect against the inherent danger that exists:

- each order must pass real-time customer equity check, market impact, etc
- when you have swings like that, a particular customer order can pass cash/margin requirements one second, and fail them the next
- then you have to worry about counterparty and clearing house risk...can the other side afford to settle this trade?
- are the other brokers vetting their orders as carefully, and making sure their customers have the cash/equity to cover the trade (2008 anyone?)
- if it turns out your real-time risk mgtm system failed, you have 10bb in equity to cover such screw-ups (oil price fiasco last year cost them about 100mm)
- the gamestop options alone have about 10-15bb of PnL to spread around (he was just on cnbc talking about it)

bottom line: scenarios like this expose, and welcome to the table, systemic risk. a few hedge funds getting taken down 30% is just the tip of the iceberg.

in my view...raise the margin requirement, or make it all cash only would be sufficient.
however, that in itself will stifle much of the trade volume, though. so the damage is already done. taking the margin leverage out of the equation is a sure fire way to blow off some froth. i wish they didnt couple it with 'closing only' aspect.

and no theyre not in bed with MMs and large HFs, so stop. IBs prime services are too conservative to attract funds like that as customers, so those types wont do business with them, because IB vets the strategy/portfolio real-time and if the risk is past threshold, they have to pay exposure fee. no HF or prop shop will do that, so they go to the big prime brokers to play there, and get to do what they want, for example, explode like melvin and maplelane. ive been down that road with IB before. they are protecting their family owned business from market risk, not pandering to shorts. two different things, unfortunately easy to mistake the optics given the media frenzy and stuff going on at RH (did robinhood really liquidate customers long holdings at sub market prices - tweet could be fake?)

in a family-ish shop like IB, they arent going to let GME take out the firm. in their eyes, theyd be happy to let a handful of speculative customers leave for RH or wherever and take their gunslinger YOLO trading with them. and i get it. i dont blame them, and frankly, i dont want to hold an account at a firm that is loosely controlled. this is not to say that any firm anywhere cannot have a disastrous mistake that can impact your account. they can. i disagreed with @Nocturnal before when they said they wanted to leave ib, only because whats the alternative? its like going from one bad boyfriend/girlfriend to another when you change brokers. one does one thing to you, the next seems better until they screw with you in a different way; a trade, transfer, margin rate, corp action fees, not alerting you to something important, etc, etc.

all that said..i do not like the fact i cant open a trade with my cash. theres no risk there for the broker. its my $..not margin. i dont want to trade GME or that basket of junk... but if i did, and i couldnt, id be pissed - rant over

You're going in the same direction as I'm going in my thinking about this.

I think that you're drawing the wrong conclusion though. The only way that the close-only position can be taken by more than a broker or two is for the whole industry to be in on it - either actively advocating, or tacitly accepting.

Fidelity was allowing me to trade earlier but the fact that any broker suspends opening a position (or buy-to-open as you identified) distorts the entire market for anybody. They only way that a broker should be allowed to make a decision like that should be for them to stop making that stock available at all, knowing that they'll be losing all of the assets under management and owners / wanna be owners to competitors that aren't taking that position. By dropping out of an issue - I mean that the regulators might allow that too e a reasonably one-sides and rapid decision, but it'll take time to apply for access to brokerage for that issue again (maybe an automatic 1 month, 1 quarter, or 1 year timeout).

Totally agree that the brokers shouldn't and can't let a single company put them out of business. The solution is pretty simple - keep ratcheting up margin requirements until they are 100% (i.e. - no margin extended for this issue).

And probably even put in an absolute threshold on option IV (so that people on margin can see it coming and plan), but also leave themselves an out to implement 100% margin.

The only brokers that should have been at risk with these gyrations are brokers that took on some of the risk and moral hazard of the situation themselves by extending credit to either side of the trade.

Borrow-to-short is easy -- there's no margin involved. You have to borrow a share from somewhere else in order to sell it first. If lenders of shares start recalling them too aggressively, the broker's solution is again simple - push interest rates through the roof. I recall seeing lending rates on TSLA well over 50% previously. Gamestop was probably worth a 100% to 500% lending rate recently.

And the brokers can also handle that extreme where the interest rate to borrow shares gets so extreme - indicate in their short selling transactions and agreements that short selling will be suspected at say 50% borrow rate, and short sellers will be forced to cover at a 100% borrow rate (with the broker retaining the option to forcing a cover earlier). When the situation becomes sufficiently extreme that the price discovery at any point in time can't be trusted, then the broker's solution is always simple - every position in the market (short or long) is backed by 100% capital for the position (no leverage).
 
they’re a 27.21b dollar company. i know everyone is angry. but let me simplify.

they are overwhelmingly majority owned, therefore overwhelming majority of their equity at stake. therefore conservative with risk management, the customer activity they allow on platform, and the types of customer strategy they allow.
They lost a lot of customers today. If they cared about risk they shouldn't have lent out shares to short. My non-retirement "play" money was in IBKR. Account is officially closed and I will be doing anything I can to add them to the list of lawsuits. I also raised hell with my members of congress and the SEC.

I was screwed out of a lot of money because IBKR decided to protect the clearing houses. Peterffy can f__k right off (I added that note to the reason why I was closing my account). I was using zero margin BTW. All cash, and my GME position was less than 15% of my 400k account.

Vanguard is plenty conservative and they didn't bend me over the barrel. They get my money now.
 
I don’t buy the argument that brokers are doing this to protect themselves or clearinghouse.

They are facilitator of trades, they are not supposed to take any positions during the process and they shouldn’t expose themselves to any risks either ways SP would go, unless it requires naked shorting to make the whole flow work.(Which I don’t believe, but they could be doing that to milk profits though)

So, if they rise margin requirements, that’s acceptable, since they are the lender they have rights to control what their borrowers do with their money.

But, for stopping people buying using their own money, that’s just wrong, and unacceptable, no excuses!
 
they’re a 27.21b dollar company. i know everyone is angry. but let me simplify.

they are overwhelmingly majority owned, therefore overwhelming majority of their equity at stake. therefore conservative with risk management, the customer activity they allow on platform, and the types of customer strategy they allow.

Pretty convenient time to be conservative with risk management. Fact is what they did lacks morals, ethics, and and decent standard.

thanks for the correction on market cap though.
 
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They are facilitator of trades, they are not supposed to take any positions during the process
true

and they shouldn’t expose themselves to any risks either ways SP would go, unless it requires naked shorting to make the whole flow work.
false - you dont need to hold a position to have inherent risk...there is systemic counterparty risk, it will occur, we are at tip of iceberg right now

So, if they rise margin requirements, that’s acceptable, since they are the lender they have rights to control what their borrowers do with their money.
true

But, for stopping people buying using their own money, that’s just wrong, and unacceptable, no excuses!
true
 
Pretty convenient time to be conservative with risk management. Fact is what they did lacks morals, ethics, and and decent standard.

thanks for the correction on market cap though.

im not saying its right or wrong...im trying to put it in perspective
what if it was your company at stake, what would you do? is all im saying

im not happy abouit being told wht i can trade with my own cash whil eothers are allowed...im not taking a stand or choosing a side. im here to try to absorb and understand more, and put things in perspective
 
false - you dont need to hold a position to have inherent risk...there is systemic counterparty risk, it will occur, we are at tip of iceberg right now
The counter party risk is the job of MM, they earn billions just to bag that risk.
Broker or clearing houses are supposed to be neutral.

They are acting like DMV says you can not buy EV but because they are too expensive, not because it puts our ICE OEM friends out of business.
 
The counter party risk is the job of MM, they earn billions just to bag that risk.
Broker or clearing houses are supposed to be neutral.

They are acting like DMV says you can not buy EV but because they are too expensive, not because it puts our ICE OEM friends out of business.

no...im talking about counterparty risk on the settlement/clearing side

once the trade is executed, matched, and clears NSCC theres still potential for broker to broker fails../and with a security thats bouncing 100s of dollars you can have that mark to market risk

you could also have the risk on the options side where one OCC participant screwed up royally and cant afford to 1) commit the daily capital requirement to continue settling trades and/or 2) dont have th capital required to pay for the settlement of trades...if this happens, OCC bylaws state something like all the other participants eat it...but usually if one screws up, theyre not alone

again...nothing to do with whether these guys are handling this right or wrong, but more about how it works
 
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no...im talking about counterparty risk on the settlement/clearing side

once the trade is executed, matched, and clears NSCC theres still potential for broker to broker fails../and with a security thats bouncing 100s of dollars you can have that mark to market risk

you could also have the risk on the options side where one OCC participant screwed up royally and cant afford to 1) commit the daily capital requirement to continue settling trades and/or 2) dont have th capital required to pay for the settlement of trades...if this happens, OCC bylaws state something like all the other participants eat it...but usually if one screws up, theyre not alone

again...nothing to do with whether these guys are handling this right or wrong, but more about how it works

and further, with the increase in volatility and option volume comes margin and capital requirements...then that opens possibility for capital drain/drought at given firm. funds must be committed for requirements at clearing houses that would otherwise be used for other core parts of business (cleraring and settlement, stock loan, regulatory customer reserves, treasury financing, fx, etc) to have to commit an outsized amount of capital to an undersized return on that capital on behalf of a bunch of what would otherwise be ignored basket of stocks is not something any broker/firm wants to deal with when we could potentially be at the beginning of something potentially very bad

...if you believe all the tweets and stories from today then some major pain is coming. if that stuff is just hearsay, then probably nothing will happen except traders like us lose opportunity and some get really burned

- please everyone here dont be on the wrong end of this
 
Ameritrade did the crap as Robinhood. I have BB stock and tried to sell a covered call against it and they won't let me. I want to take advantage of the IV, the premiums are good. Ameritrade is literally denying me about $4 a share in IV premiums I could have collected today. Thousands of dollars, basically stolen from me by Ameritrade. I have the damn shares. If the stock went nuts, they get to turn around and give them to whoever bought the call. Maddening.

Nearly every broker is in on the fix, so I'm not sure taking my business elsewhere is even possible. Particularly since thinkorswim is a really nice interface for trading.