Can my Dashcam get me out of this speeding ticket?

[WilliamG]

So, I have my own feelings on this, but I expect the Internets will have their say. Go for it, Internets.

So here's the deal: I'm heading to Seattle Tacoma airport, the speed limit is 40mph approaching the terminal, - up until a 20mph sign. At the 20mph sign I start slowing down to 20mph because people are driving close behind me and I'd rather not get into an accident. In addition, I've always been of the understanding that the speed limit begins to be enforced at the sign. i.e. If you're going 30mph and you see a 50mph sign 150 feet down the road, you should not accelerate to 50mph until the sign. Likewise, a 20mph sign means I can slow down from the 20mph sign - in a reasonable amount of time.

So, anyway - to continue - there's an officer sitting UNDER the 20mph sign in his Officermobile, I drive past him going around 35-40mph, and immediately slow down to 20mph. There's a bend in the road after this 20mph sign, so he can't reasonably see how fast I'm going after I pass that second sign 100 further along. He's also stationary at the point that I pass him, so he's busy screaming out into traffic to get to me.

Anyway, he zooms out, pulls me over - tells me I was doing 40mph, but "does me a favor" and cites me for 30mph in a 20. $139. He also told me there were three 20mph signs that I ignored (there aren't). First, I was slowing down when I hit the first one (where he was), and there appears to be no way he can tell how fast I was going through the next/last 20mph sign, because of the bend in the road. I was going ~20mph when I hit that sign.

So, do I have a leg to stand on, here? It's clear from the video I'm slowing down right after I hit that first 20mph sign (you can see this relative to the other cars around me - one even catching up to me as I round the bend before the officer screams up).

My three choices are:

1.) Pay the money and it goes on my record.
2.) Mitigation hearing.
3.) Contested hearing.

So, I'm genuinely interested in what you all think. Thanks, all.

Video 1:

Front: Dropbox - 2019-07-29_19-54-15-front.mp4 - Simplify your life
Right Repeater: Dropbox - 2019-07-29_19-54-15-right_repeater.mp4 - Simplify your life

Video 2:

Front: Dropbox - 2019-07-29_19-55-16-front.mp4 - Simplify your life
Right Repeater: Dropbox - 2019-07-29_19-55-16-right_repeater.mp4 - Simplify your life

 

[NoMoGas]

YES . Fight the ticket, absolutely. You can CLEARLY see the 40MPH sign and the cop sitting AT the 20mph sign. That is a illegal speed trap.

BTW Get him to say that in court BEFORE you tell them you have video.

 

[Tam]

...think...

1) I don't think your logic about speeding up as an equivalent to a slowing down scenario will fly.

If the first sign says 30MPH, then anything above 30MPH is a violation.

I can't say the reason I could speed up to 35, 40, 45... is because I want to match the 50MPH ahead.

2) To be strict, if the radar registers your speed above 20MPH exactly at that sign, then it's a violation even though you slowed down significantly or exactly to 20MPH after the sign.

3) By the way, what's the proof from the police that you ran at 40MPH? Radar?

4) TeslaCam does not show speed so it is hard to prove your speed with that evidence.

5) I do agree with @NoMoGas to challenge the ticket, not for the above reasons but for the sole reason of "Speed Trap". The video proves that there's a 40MPH sign first then a 20MPH next.

I think technically, speed trap is not illegal but your lawyer can ask the court to prove whether the reasons and the way they resort to set it up is legal.

 

[NoMoGas]

1) I don't think your logic about speeding up as an equivalent to a slowing down scenario will fly.
I think technically, speed trap is not illegal but your lawyer can ask the court to prove whether the reasons and the way they resort to set it up is legal.

The first sign says 40.

No need for lawyer.

If this would have been around the corner with multiple signs the ticket would stand. This cop sitting under the first sign that cuts the speed in half? Nope. As I said, get him to say there were multiple signs then introduce the video to rebut his claim.

 

[DrDabbles]

YES . Fight the ticket, absolutely. You can CLEARLY see the 40MPH sign and the cop sitting AT the 20mph sign. That is a illegal speed trap.

Speed traps aren't illegal everywhere. WilliamG wants to use a video of him breaking the law to get out of a ticket, so the video isn't likely a good idea.

Fighting the ticket is going to cost court fees regardless of the outcome, and WilliamG is clearly guilty. They've even said so themself.

...there's an officer sitting UNDER the 20mph sign in his Officermobile, I drive past him going around 35-40mph

 

[NoMoGas]

Speed traps aren't illegal everywhere. WilliamG wants to use a video of him breaking the law to get out of a ticket, so the video isn't likely a good idea.

Fighting the ticket is going to cost court fees regardless of the outcome, and WilliamG is clearly guilty. They've even said so themself.

Not true at all.

 

[dblankenbaker]

Cops lie. Video doesn't. Nail his ass.

 

[WilliamG]

Speed traps aren't illegal everywhere. WilliamG wants to use a video of him breaking the law to get out of a ticket, so the video isn't likely a good idea.

Fighting the ticket is going to cost court fees regardless of the outcome, and WilliamG is clearly guilty. They've even said so themself.

I can’t say exactly what speed I was going. That was just a guess. All I know is that there was a black Chevy you can see gaining on me hugely in the right repeater.

Interesting about the speed trap argument. Is that legal?

 

[WilliamG]

Cops lie. Video doesn't. Nail his ass.

Need a bit more info than that!

 

[NoMoGas]

I can’t say exactly what speed I was going. That was just a guess. All I know is that there was a black Chevy you can see gaining on me hugely in the right repeater.

Interesting about the speed trap argument. Is that legal?

Yes. Listen you lose nothing by making the argument. Courts do seek basic fairness. 99% of tickets stand, but Ive seen these cases beaten

 

[WilliamG]

Yes. Listen you lose nothing by making the argument. Courts do seek basic fairness. 99% of tickets stand, but Ive seen these cases beaten

I’m not sure exactly what my argument should be.

 

[DrDabbles]

I’m not sure exactly what my argument should be.

Don't attempt the "But that chevy was speeding more" argument. Because the judge is guaranteed to be annoyed and not find in your favor. You were speeding. You know you were speeding, the cop knows you were speeding. Pay your fine, learn your lesson, slow down before limit signs.

 

[GolanB]

Forensic investigators can use video to determine speed by measuring the distance between known markers on the road and the speed at which you see them go by in the video. If you could get that analysis done I think it would resolve your question of speed.

At the very least, if you can show this was the first sign from the video, the judge may remove points and have you just pay the fine, or some portion.

 

[WilliamG]

Forensic investigators can use video to determine speed by measuring the distance between known markers on the road and the speed at which you see them go by in the video. If you could get that analysis done I think it would resolve your question of speed.

At the very least, if you can show this was the first sign from the video, the judge may remove points and have you just pay the fine, or some portion.

There won’t be any points I don’t think. Just a fine, and potential insurance increase. I’ll get it deferred, I guess. Not seeing any better option.

 

[SMAlset]

Don't you guys have something like traffic school you can go to?

 

[Tam]

...Interesting about the speed trap argument. Is that legal?

New laws aim to put brakes on nation's speed traps

"...they didn't change the law because it was illegal. They wanted a portion of the proceeds. That's all it was,"

The article below says what illegal is how they set the speed trap: It's the ticket quota that's illegal.

If there's no quota, "That's legalized robbery,"

Florida town infamous for speed traps disbanding police force

 

[trm2]

The video starts off blurry for me and I can’t see the 40 MPH sign, but it clears up in plenty of time to see the reduced speed ahead sign - but I only see one.

 

[mswlogo]

My understanding is you must be doing 20 mph before you hit the lower speed sign. Not start slowing down. Everyone’s rate of deceleration could be different. What’s a formula for reasonable deceleration?

Most honest setups have a warning sign that speed is reducing ahead to give you ample time to slow down.

By your logic I could make it through a entire school zone decelerating from 40 mph when it’s labeled 20 mph, and have an average speed of 30 mph.

I have never fought a ticket but it’s a good idea to try and keep your record clean, in the event of a future mistake (sometimes out of your control). And if you do make a mistake in the future and they look you up and see a history it can snow ball on you. Possibly raise your insurance (not something you want on Tesla).

You can hire companies to represent you. Sometimes they can work a deal to avoid being present at a hearing.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The video starts off blurry for me and I can’t see the 40 MPH sign, but it clears up in plenty of time to see the reduced speed ahead sign - but I only see one.

I saw the reduced speed ahead sign, but that seems very badly set up and ripe for a trap.
The sign is on the right hand side as a wide lane joins from the right, on a curve.
The video also shows that there was a cargo van obscuring the sign for some of the time, reducing the opportunity for the OP to see it.
So, the OP might argue that they missed the sign because of the curve and the van, and began to slow down as soon as they saw the 20mph sign, but couldn't brake hard because of a fast-approaching car behind them.

There should be a reduced speed ahead sign before the merge of the lane from the right.

But, OP, the speed limit change begins at the sign, so you don't accelerate before an increase, and brake before a decrease. That's why they have reduced speed ahead signs, and not increased speed ahead signs.

 

[NikeWings]

The day I was turning my car in, I was pulled over on the 60W.
He said he clocked me at 92 and he wasn’t pulling me over for speed, but for crossing the car pool double line. I started to disagree and he suggested I do not. I fumbled on my blackvue app while he did the license, reg, insurance, routine and ran the plates. He returned, tried to sound a bit more friendly and asked what I like most about the car, the speed? I said no, the self driving tech and handed him my phone to watch me trying to get out of the car pool lane while on AP and being boxed out by a jerk not letting me out. I told him the car was on AP and made the safest decision not to squeeze in. Then you can hear AP disengage, and see I punched it to get around the jerk and yes, ended up crossing the double line while exiting. He let me go. I wish you luck!