Canadian CHAdeMO charging

[gabriel_bl]

As a tax payer I do not care about the KSI's excuses. They got $10mil (half of the whole $20mil high speed chargers budget went to them) to provide chargers and the requirement was at least 50kW. Government should ask the money back for all the chargers that do not provide specified output.

KSI should have not bid in if they are technically not capable to install them.

I haven't bid for the exact reason - otherwise I would've enjoyed a nice $10mil project

 

[yuhong]

As a tax payer I do not care about the KSI's excuses. They got $10mil (half of the whole $20mil high speed chargers budget went to them) to provide chargers and the requirement was at least 50kW. Government should ask the money back for all the chargers that do not provide specified output.

KSI should have not bid in if they are technically not capable to install them.

I haven't bid for the exact reason - otherwise I would've enjoyed a nice $10mil project

Personally I am not saying this is an excuse, but I do want to figure out the technical problems KSI would have faced installing these chargers. Keep in mind that 50kW is not the end of the road for DCFC charging either.

 

[yuhong]

PlugShare for at least one station (Tim Hortons) says that “KSI advised via Facebook chat that this station remains down due to power delivery dispute with the site operator.”. It would be nice to get details.

 

[gabriel_bl]

Personally I am not saying this is an excuse, but I do want to figure out the technical problems KSI would have faced installing these chargers. Keep in mind that 50kW is not the end of the road for DCFC charging either.

I feel that these are only excuses on KSI side. There is one KSI charger limited to 30kW in the area where my company is. There is nearly no limit from hydro side. There are many offices in the area - Mitel, Alcatel, Qnx, Apple (not advertised ). I understand that there might be an issue somewhere out in the country, but in the hearth of industry parc? I don't believe that.
BTW Alcatel in my area has probably 10 or 12 Level 2 chargers for employees. Nearly every building in the area has 2 Chargepoint Level 2 chargers (probably with 7.2kW) installed.

 

[yuhong]

I feel that these are only excuses on KSI side. There is one KSI charger limited to 30kW in the area where my company is. There is nearly no limit from hydro side. There are many offices in the area - Mitel, Alcatel, Qnx, Apple (not advertised ). I understand that there might be an issue somewhere out in the country, but in the hearth of industry parc? I don't believe that.
BTW Alcatel in my area has probably 10 or 12 Level 2 chargers for employees. Nearly every building in the area has 2 Chargepoint Level 2 chargers (probably with 7.2kW) installed.

This is why I mention that DCFC chargers require 277/480V and wonder how they managed to get the voltage when no utility in Ontario provide it as a standard.

 

[RiverBrick]

This is why I mention that DCFC chargers require 277/480V and wonder how they managed to get the voltage when no utility in Ontario provide it as a standard.

See post #621 in this thread. Most likely they install a step down transformer.

 

[yuhong]

See post #621 in this thread. Most likely they install a step down transformer.

That would be what would be normally be done, but I wonder exactly what KSI used.

 

[mknox]

That would be what would be normally be done, but I wonder exactly what KSI used.

A step down transformer.

PlugShare for at least one station (Tim Hortons) says that “KSI advised via Facebook chat that this station remains down due to power delivery dispute with the site operator.”. It would be nice to get details.

The disputes have to do with demand charges that utilities levy on commercial grade services. These charges can be quite significant and I have a feeling that KSI didn't fully understand this or didn't fully explain it to the site hosts when they made their arrangements with them.

 

[DMC-Orangeville]

Good question that I don't have the answer to, but obviously not zero. As a (now retired) utility guy, our focus was only up to the meter, and everything on the load side of the meter is the customer's business. It probably wouldn't be hard to search for dry type transformer suppliers and get pricing and technical data on the units.

I sell dry type transformers. The new NRCan standards for efficiency have maximum levels for losses. For 3 phase low voltage losses are about 1 1/2 % for the 150 KVA to 1 MVA range. These would be $3500-$45,000 for that range
Source: Dry-type transformers | Natural Resources Canada

It is more likely that the EVSE will use an autotransformer to step down from 600 to 480 volts. Much smaller, and MUCH less expensive. You'd be looking at $1500-$8000 in that size range.

 

[yuhong]

A step down transformer.



The disputes have to do with demand charges that utilities levy on commercial grade services. These charges can be quite significant and I have a feeling that KSI didn't fully understand this or didn't fully explain it to the site hosts when they made their arrangements with them.

Yea, any party that installs DCFC charging will have the same problem. I am looking for more detail than just "a step down transformer" BTW.

 

[SlyWombat]

Yea, any party that installs DCFC charging will have the same problem. I am looking for more detail than just "a step down transformer" BTW.

Quick search... Canada Transformers - Dry-type Autotransformers

 

[DMC-Orangeville]

Yea, any party that installs DCFC charging will have the same problem. I am looking for more detail than just "a step down transformer" BTW.

Here are the specs for the company that I rep, Delta Transformer, out of Granby QC. This is a 150 KVA 3 phase aluminium, wye/wye 600/480 volt Autotransformer, in a NEMA 3R enclosure. It's pretty typical of one that might power 2 X 50 KW DC chargers. There are full specs to be downloaded, and you can choose any size, configuration etc.

Distribution - Product family - Our products - Custom build and distribution transformer

 

[yuhong]

Here are the specs for the company that I rep, Delta Transformer, out of Granby QC. This is a 150 KVA 3 phase aluminium, wye/wye 600/480 volt Autotransformer, in a NEMA 3R enclosure. It's pretty typical of one that might power 2 X 50 KW DC chargers. There are full specs to be downloaded, and you can choose any size, configuration etc.

Distribution - Product family - Our products - Custom build and distribution transformer

I know. I am talking about exactly what KSI installed.

 

[DMC-Orangeville]

I know. I am talking about exactly what KSI installed.

If I were to guess.....It will be a GE autotransformer. We talked to KSI a couple of years ago. We wanted to supply them transformers. They told us to "get lost" as they had an exclusive with GE USA. Having competed with GE, on transformers, we knew it might be a bit sticky for KSI. They stuck to their guns.

 

[mociaf9]

I am talking about exactly what KSI installed.

You'll either have to call up KSI and try to get someone who would actually know on the phone or go look at the install for yourself.

 

[RiverBrick]

I know. I am talking about exactly what KSI installed.

Why are you so interested in what KSI has done?

KSI is a one-man show run by an unethical slick-talker with no technical experience.

Hopefully, no one will copy what KSI did.

 

[yuhong]

Why are you so interested in what KSI has done?

KSI is a one-man show run by an unethical slick-talker with no technical experience.

Hopefully, no one will copy what KSI did.

I am interested in exactly what technical problems they faced for example.

 

[gabriel_bl]

I am interested in exactly what technical problems they faced for example.

Probably they faced too many BS and not enough technical experience / knowledge problem

 

[RiverBrick]

Petro-Canada announces they are committed to building a coast-to-coast CHAdeMO/CCS network.

https://www.petro-canada.ca/en/personal/fuel/alternative-fuels/ev-fast-charge-network

 

[mknox]

I am interested in exactly what technical problems they faced for example.

The only way to know what specific technical problems KSI faced is to find out from someone at KSI. No one here is going to know for sure, and all we are doing is offering our best guesses.

MY best guess is that they did not put enough though into their site selections, did not understand the impact that the increased demand would place on the site hosts' electricity bills and did not explain all of this to the site hosts when they went around trying to sign people up to host their equipment. In a couple of cases, I know that the throttling of the station output was not for "technical" reasons... it was because the host's electricity bills had skyrocketed due to the increased demand and associated charges.