TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Cars, Candidates, Loans, and Bailouts

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by vfx, Aug 25, 2008.

  1. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,308
    I'm not sure what they were expected. EVs have only been out with any public awareness for about a year (Leaf/Volt).
     
  2. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin President, Florida Tesla Enthusiasts

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,658
    Location:
    Sarasota, Florida
    Solyndra Is Blamed as Clean-Energy Loan Program Stalls

    Larry
     
  3. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin President, Florida Tesla Enthusiasts

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,658
    Location:
    Sarasota, Florida
    GM, Tesla fight politicization of electric cars

    Larry
     
  4. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2006
    Messages:
    14,792
    Location:
    CA CA
  5. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin President, Florida Tesla Enthusiasts

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,658
    Location:
    Sarasota, Florida
    Government and the electric car

    Larry
     
  6. Lloyd

    Lloyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    6,005
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
  7. VolkerP

    VolkerP EU Model S P-37

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2011
    Messages:
    2,464
    Location:
    Germany
    #308 VolkerP, May 14, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2012
    [Mod edit: Moved generic EV political discussion here from the Fisker Karma thread...]

    Disagree. While the rest of the world enjoys America to lead, we are smart enough not to follow through if America blunders.
    * California unlikely to soften up its Clean Air/Zero Emission policy, regardless of color of president in Washington, D.C.
    * Nissan is not a U.S. based company and sells 50% of all Leafs outside U.S.
    *Killing the tax rebate doesn't affect CDN/overseas markets.
    * Daimler and other manufacturers likely will protect their investment in Tesla.
    In closing, should Republicans seize presidency later this year, please stop delivery of Model S to US citizens -- send the cars over here, please. We're waiting. :cool:
     
  8. mattjs33

    mattjs33 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2010
    Messages:
    618
    Location:
    Antioch, Illinois, U.S.A.
    Wasn't it a Republican administration that initiated the DOE loan program?
     
  9. Dan5

    Dan5 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2011
    Messages:
    426
    Location:
    Delran, NJ
    I agree that California will not kill the its incentives, but Nissan did get a huge DOE loan to build the EVs which are selling at a loss (3 billion dollar loan), same thing with Ford (5 billion dollar loan), if those loans are renegotiated at a higher rate in order to access the rest of the money, they will not be able to sell them or take substantially more losses. I'm looking at the glass half empty. With Nissan, 50% of the Leaf sales are in the US and the US offers the rebate. If they cut out the rebate AND open up oil fields, EV's become less economically viable short term.
    If for example, John Q Citizen has a choice between a Tauras for 20 K + 1 K/year gas ($2/gallon) or a Focus EV at 40 K + 300/year electricity; the mass market EV movement will fail in the US because people don't think long term, they'll just think the Taurus is cheaper all around.
    Let's be honest here, when it comes to EVs the market is engineers, environmentally concerned people, financially savvy people and "techies". If you take out financially savvy people that's a quite a number of sales. Also a large percentage of the market is the US, if you take out that market it is a crippling blow on any company (specifically cars since their current stocks have to be retrofit to be sold in other markets)

    Yes, the DOE loan was started by Bush, but I think the election is going to be very nasty and I think the Republicans will use Fisker as a "Billy Carter of EVs" and it will inflame their base as the "DOE loans were part of Obama's green program" whether its true or not
     
  10. Lloyd

    Lloyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    6,005
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    California may be forced to eliminate the incentives with a 16 Billion$ deficit in the budget that was "unforseen" in the news today. If I remember correctly the budget numbers that were presented by our governor last year were termed "extreemly optomistic" and additional cuts were likely if those numbers did not pan out.
     
  11. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    9,454
    Bush signed the DOE loan program into law, but the legislation was passed by the Democrats in Congress. Plus near the end of his administration (2nd term) he was going against the wishes of a vast majority of Republicans (critically the signing of the auto bailouts). However, in his first term, he was in lockstep with most Republicans. I think Romney will also be in lockstep for his first term because he still has to go for reelection if he gets elected.
     
  12. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    16,409
    Location:
    SF Bay Area
    Thanks for the move rabr10.

    I think I'll crack open a Billy.

    billy-beer-hommer1.jpg billy-beer.jpg
     
  13. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    9,454
    http://green.autoblog.com/2012/05/14/tesla-will-start-repaying-loans-by-end-of-this-year/
    Looks like Tesla will get the rest of the money from the loan by the end of the year and then start repaying it. I'm not sure, but I would think that they can't raise interest rates after Tesla already got all the money. And the sooner Tesla repays it, the better. Then Tesla can put the politics behind them.

    Fisker is not so lucky since they missed milestones on the Karma, which delayed their funding, and they still need to hold out until they get the money for the Atlantic. The positive thing for them is they seem to have no problem finding private funding, so they might still be able to go on without the DOE loan.
     
  14. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2009
    Messages:
    11,967
    Interesting comment from letstakeawalk:

    I didn't know this (though I'm sure it's publicly available in some document somewhere). Certainly puts it a bit in perspective (where the casual reader might think: oh wow, Tesla is already planning on paying back?!? They must be doing great! [which we know they are]).
     
  15. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    9,035
    Location:
    Winchester, UK
    BBC pundits saying the auto bailout issue lost Ohio for Romney.
     

Share This Page

  • About Us

    Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.
  • Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


    SUPPORT TMC