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You are totally correct the word is “Respect”. Do you remember the statement of Daimler CEO in Beijing about Tesla that they will not invest in the Gigafactory. We haven’t heard anything official from Daimler about Tesla until then. Why in China, why in April? I believe they do realize that Tesla is becoming serious treat for their biggest market (by volume and margin as well) Until now charging unreasonably high prices was not a problem because everyone was doing it, the Chinese were aware of this but when Tesla is entering with better product, fair prices and respectable attitude to the customers they may find themselves in crisis management situation . This is my definition of disruption.
It’s not like the Chinese will stop buying S class but it's a big reputation hit and for me it’s obvious that Model S will outsell MB S class.
2) I should ship my Model S to China, rent it out for test drives, and use the money to buy some Tesla calls.
Sounds like a reasonable thing to do
considering the difference between supply and demand in China at the moment importing Model S could be really profitable activity. Sadly as far as I understood importing cars in China is not an easy thing. It is related with a lot of paperwork and required documentations and also it takes a lot of time. Currently Tesla has the ability to import them faster than the usual process which takes months in customs. Importing second hand car in China is almost impossible.Also it is interesting that importing a new car requires permission from the manufacturer or the dealership.
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Second TV show when Elon visited China http://cctv.cntv.cn/lm/duihua/. Some interesting takeaways:
~11:20 Elon : this year we’ll almost double the production rate
~29:00 Elon: 3 years ago, we made 600 cars. Last year, we made 22000 cars. This year we’ll almost double production. Probably next year double again.
Moved my comments to "Long Term Fundamental" thread http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...-Motors-(TSLA)?p=649466&viewfull=1#post649466
~11:20 Elon : this year we’ll almost double the production rate
~29:00 Elon: 3 years ago, we made 600 cars. Last year, we made 22000 cars. This year we’ll almost double production. Probably next year double again.
Moved my comments to "Long Term Fundamental" thread http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...-Motors-(TSLA)?p=649466&viewfull=1#post649466
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Benz
Active Member
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
... Which of course neither Audi, BMW or Mercedes will give you since that would undermine their pricing policy of adding at least 100% to the sales price in China. Mafia style. I like Tesla's disruption of the luxury market in China, I like it a lot!
I don't think it is Tesla only. I think it is 3000 plates per year of imported pure electric cars. I do not know if volt though would qualify, probably not.
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I just want to report that there is a rumor that Beijing is working to provide 500 free license plates per month for imported EVs. The information was not confirmed from officials but it is stated that there will be some form of incentive at least priority for registrations.
http://www.d1ev.com/news/industry/2014051331408.html
At the same time it was reported that first two Tesla cars in Shanghai are registered with free license plates on 13 of May.
http://auto.163.com/14/0513/08/9S4503T600084TV0.html
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http://www.d1ev.com/news/industry/2014051331408.html
At the same time it was reported that first two Tesla cars in Shanghai are registered with free license plates on 13 of May.
http://auto.163.com/14/0513/08/9S4503T600084TV0.html
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Actually in few articles regarding Shanghai plates it was mentioned that at the moment Tesla is the only one imported pure electric vehicle.I don't think it is Tesla only. I think it is 3000 plates per year of imported pure electric cars. I do not know if volt though would qualify, probably not.
So small research:
Nissan leaf goes on sale in China September:” The upcoming Chinese version of the Nissan Leaf, the Venucia e30, was not the highlight of the Dongfeng Nissan stand at this year's Beijing Motor Show. That honor goes to the R30, a compact car with "segment-competitive fuel economy" and a starting price of under RMB 50,000 ($8,033 US)” http://green.autoblog.com/2014/04/21/chinese-nissan-leaf-goes-on-sale-in-september-venucia-e30/
BMW I3 it was presented in Beijing auto show. It will go to sale in China at some point. By the way back in December 2013 BMW announced price tag of 98 000 USD in China http://www.carnewschina.com/2013/12/12/bmw-i3-will-cost-98-000-in-china/
I do not see any information for Volt to go on sale in China.
When I think little bit deeper even if other manufacturers tries to enter Chinese market with EV it will be failure with existing models. They will have to face direct competition of BYD which is in the same class, lower price tag and it is domestic company.
Tesla on the other hand has completely different segment and target customers and it is competing with MB S class or BMW 5 or 7.
My guess is that at least for now Tesla will utilize almost all of the incentive for the registration plates.
Nissan leaf goes on sale in China September:” The upcoming Chinese version of the Nissan Leaf, the Venucia e30, was not the highlight of the Dongfeng Nissan stand at this year's Beijing Motor Show. That honor goes to the R30, a compact car with "segment-competitive fuel economy" and a starting price of under RMB 50,000 ($8,033 US)” http://green.autoblog.com/2014/04/21/chinese-nissan-leaf-goes-on-sale-in-september-venucia-e30/
BMW I3 it was presented in Beijing auto show. It will go to sale in China at some point. By the way back in December 2013 BMW announced price tag of 98 000 USD in China http://www.carnewschina.com/2013/12/12/bmw-i3-will-cost-98-000-in-china/
I do not see any information for Volt to go on sale in China.
When I think little bit deeper even if other manufacturers tries to enter Chinese market with EV it will be failure with existing models. They will have to face direct competition of BYD which is in the same class, lower price tag and it is domestic company.
Tesla on the other hand has completely different segment and target customers and it is competing with MB S class or BMW 5 or 7.
My guess is that at least for now Tesla will utilize almost all of the incentive for the registration plates.
Wall Street Journal article: http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/...joy-shanghai-license-plate-perk/?mod=yahoo_hs
"China has set itself the ambitious goal of putting 500,000 plug-in hybrid and electric vehicles on the road by next year and five million by 2020."
This is the strong logic sitting behind to bet well for Tesla in China. Shanghai municipal government is not politically "incorrect", 3000 free license plates just help itself to meet the central government goal stated above.
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The rumor has been confirmed as rumor officially.
Maoing (or others). Any comments on the Jinfeng Li articles in Forbes
- http://www.forbes.com/sites/junhli/2014/05/15/the-chaos-of-tesla-motors-in-china/?partner=yahootix
One seems to be a reprint of a Chinese gossip column hit piece on Tesla management and the other questions their ability to deliver on their business model. We may have found the Chinese equivalent of john Peterson.
Tesla Motors in China: Hype or Not - Forbes
- http://www.forbes.com/sites/junhli/2014/05/15/the-chaos-of-tesla-motors-in-china/?partner=yahootix
One seems to be a reprint of a Chinese gossip column hit piece on Tesla management and the other questions their ability to deliver on their business model. We may have found the Chinese equivalent of john Peterson.
Tesla Motors in China: Hype or Not - Forbes
It seems, as you said, mixed in with pieces of gossip. As I recall, Shanghai deliveries happened during Elon's trip to China as well. Further, I would not call Jerome as the de facto Number 2 at Tesla, in my mind it would be Elon, JB, Franz, Jerome, Gilbert.
I quickly go through the article, similar to typical FUD in SA, many proofs just can't withstand double thinking. I'll try to explain some in below:
1) According to Alexa’s global tracking of visitors to the Tesla website (including its Chinese language website), less than 5% of the total visitors came from China today
>> That's expected, not all chinese is comfortable with english reading even well educated ones. They certainly more prefer to get information from Chinese media and visiting store.
2) Tesla requires all buyers to have a dedicated parking space.
>> That's true. Assuming there are only 1% of chinese live in SFH as in US, then it's 14 million pupulation. Also it's not difficult to get a dedicated parking space in modern apartment building. In my opinion, Model S is not targeting for average consumers, so parking space limitation should not be an issue at all.
3) However, China imposes an electric current limitation of 20 amps on residential circuits, which effectively caps the charging capacity at this limit and lengthens the charging cycle.
>> It looks most of the owners can install 40A charger right now, also they reserve the capability to upscale to 80A in the future. So this is not a big issue as I can tell
4) To install superchargers in public spaces
>> It was an issue from the beginning. As of know, there are still no solid plan laid down. But it doesn't mean it will be a hurdle to prevent Tesla progress in China. Tesla China might just work in the background to negotiate. Think about that 3 superchargers popped up suddenly at end of April. Right now 10 more planned on Tesla Asia supercharger map.
5) An average ICE taxi costs ~100K RMB, compared with TSLA’s Model S at ~750K RMB.
>> This is like an apple to orange comparison. Some leasing companies ordered Model S for their good sake. Although personally don't believe it's popular to have such expensive car in the taxi fleet.
1) According to Alexa’s global tracking of visitors to the Tesla website (including its Chinese language website), less than 5% of the total visitors came from China today
>> That's expected, not all chinese is comfortable with english reading even well educated ones. They certainly more prefer to get information from Chinese media and visiting store.
2) Tesla requires all buyers to have a dedicated parking space.
>> That's true. Assuming there are only 1% of chinese live in SFH as in US, then it's 14 million pupulation. Also it's not difficult to get a dedicated parking space in modern apartment building. In my opinion, Model S is not targeting for average consumers, so parking space limitation should not be an issue at all.
3) However, China imposes an electric current limitation of 20 amps on residential circuits, which effectively caps the charging capacity at this limit and lengthens the charging cycle.
>> It looks most of the owners can install 40A charger right now, also they reserve the capability to upscale to 80A in the future. So this is not a big issue as I can tell
4) To install superchargers in public spaces
>> It was an issue from the beginning. As of know, there are still no solid plan laid down. But it doesn't mean it will be a hurdle to prevent Tesla progress in China. Tesla China might just work in the background to negotiate. Think about that 3 superchargers popped up suddenly at end of April. Right now 10 more planned on Tesla Asia supercharger map.
5) An average ICE taxi costs ~100K RMB, compared with TSLA’s Model S at ~750K RMB.
>> This is like an apple to orange comparison. Some leasing companies ordered Model S for their good sake. Although personally don't believe it's popular to have such expensive car in the taxi fleet.
I also find her observation about tire wear to be somewhat suspect. Model S tires wear out between 10,000 and 25,000 miles. Based on what sample size...signature S drivers? How many owners have 10k -25k on their cars, and of that small number, how many have excessive wear...P85+ owners. Not sure taxis will be P85+. I think the Tiger Lady of Wall Street is looking or get some screen time. Pathetic.
Tires
Hi Bbarret
I'm pretty sure the quote was 15k -25k: "Finally, Tesla has very expensive tires that last 15,000 – 25,000 miles at most....."
I have a Model S that is approaching 37k miles and since I have the 21 inch wheels the tires do wear out fast. The instant torque and regenerative braking and possibly the air suspension contribute to this.
I'm on my 3rd set of rear tires and 2nd set of front tires!
I understand tires on the 19 inch wheels last MUCH longer.
Hi Bbarret
I'm pretty sure the quote was 15k -25k: "Finally, Tesla has very expensive tires that last 15,000 – 25,000 miles at most....."
I have a Model S that is approaching 37k miles and since I have the 21 inch wheels the tires do wear out fast. The instant torque and regenerative braking and possibly the air suspension contribute to this.
I'm on my 3rd set of rear tires and 2nd set of front tires!
I understand tires on the 19 inch wheels last MUCH longer.
Regarding the home charger installation concern, here are some links (with pictures) for chinese owner experience. It's different from US but it's still not a big deal to get a one done. At least I didn't see anyone complains the delivery delay due to home charger installation except some owners who live not within the coverage of service center.
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-30111150-1.html
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-30141805-1.html
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-30095448-1.html
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-29836705-1.html
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-29595923-1.html
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-29842525-1.html
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-29897788-1.html
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-28735614-1.html
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-30111150-1.html
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-30141805-1.html
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-30095448-1.html
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-29836705-1.html
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-29595923-1.html
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-29842525-1.html
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-29897788-1.html
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-2357-28735614-1.html
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Thanks for the clarification Gravity....37k - Nice. Your clarification was what I was trying to elaborate. P85+ (and from what I understand many performance sedans/autos) have a lot of tire wear. A taxi fleet of S60s or S85s probably wouldn't have your same tire profile. The way it was written in the piece was a sweeping generalization of all Teslas and I thought purposely misleading.
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