Climate Change Denial

[nwdiver]

There’s no such thing as a greenhouse effect in our atmosphere, because there’s no glass holding in the air and preventing convective motion

Both my microwaves work fine, thanks

Doesn't have to be glass. There are 3 modes of heat transfer. Conduction, Convection and Radiation. Don't you think that hindering one would trap some energy? Why is Venus hotter than Mercury? We've landed probes on Venus. They lasted long enough to verify there was no glass dome.

How does your microwave heat food if the energy waves it uses are < -256C ???? 'warm to hot' ... right? (It's actually the other way but I'm just quoting you and that's irrelevant to the point) How does it go from near absolute zero to boiling?

 

[drtimhill]

Your entire post is an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy

Care to form an actual argument?

First, that is not a logical fallacy. Second, you have already quoted an “authority” in one of your replies. Any further debate is of course pointless since your position is based upon an utter denial of reality.

And when you drive your electric car, or use your smartphone, or get your covid vaccination, remember these things have been created by the very people you are claiming are wrong about the climate.

 

[Spacep0d]

Your entire post is an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy

Care to form an actual argument?

You understand that you're a denialist and not a skeptic...right? Denying evidence doesn't make you a skeptic. Similarly, being anti-vaxxer doesn't make one a skeptic either.

Why are you using the title of 'doctor'? Do you have an M.D. or Ph.D? If neither, you shouldn't be using this title.

Your Kool Aid reference should be 'Flavor Aid' per the Jim Jones mass suicide at Guyana. Most people get this wrong though but it wasn't Kool Aid.

Anyhoot, the science is settled on this one. Human-caused climate change (not just global warming) has been verified by NASA and other agencies and scientists who are best equipped to understand the data. When it comes to specific fields of scientific study, expertise matters.

 

[nwdiver]

Your Kool Aid reference should be 'Flavor Aid' per the Jim Jones mass suicide at Guyana. Most people get this wrong though but it wasn't Kool Aid.

All his other claims are wrong... maybe he's just trying to be consistent?

The atmosphere is actually heated adiabatically By the force of gravity on the mass of the atmosphere.

I've always found this one 'entertaining'; Really highlights a complete ignorance of physics. How would a gas know that it's under pressure due to gravity or under pressure because it's in a confined space like a SCUBA tank? The SCUBA tank in my garage is 2x the pressure of the surface of Venus. Why is it ~60F and not ~800F like Venus? COMPRESSION creates heat. NOT PRESSURE.

Why is Venus hotter than Mercury?

 

[Spacep0d]

All his other claims are wrong... maybe he's just trying to be consistent?



I've always found this one 'entertaining'; Really highlights a complete ignorance of physics. How would a gas know that it's under pressure due to gravity or under pressure because it's in a confined space like a SCUBA tank? The SCUBA tank in my garage is 2x the pressure of the surface of Venus. Why is it ~60F and not ~400F like Venus? COMPRESSION creates heat. NOT PRESSURE.

Why is Venus hotter than Mercury?

Runaway greenhouse effect! Actually this is a great point considering that Mercury is the closest planet to our local star.

 

[nwdiver]

Runaway greenhouse effect! Actually this is a great point considering that Mercury is the closest planet to our local star.

It gets even 'better'. Because Venus is 100% covered by SO2 clouds it has a very high albedo and actually absorbs less energy than Earth yet it's hotter than Mercury. That's the power of radiative forcing.

 

[SummerlinChiro]

And when you drive your electric car, or use your smartphone, or get your covid vaccination, remember these things have been created by the very people you are claiming are wrong about the climate.

Not!

Your typical climatologist couldn’t engineer their way out of a paper bag!

This is my point. Their “science” is JUNK!

This is why so many REAL scientists and engineers who who ACTUALLY read the science become skeptics.

Most of us started out as true believers based on what we read, the coverage of the science.

When you dig into the actual papers, you start realizing that it’s a house of cards, more propaganda than science.

They love the coverage (and grant gravy train) they get from making apocalyptic prognostications.

Their predictions are always wrong BTW!

The ice caps were going to be gone in 1999, 2008, 2014, 2020, but it never happened.

It is an Apocalyptic cult cloaking itself as science.

 

[SummerlinChiro]

I've always found this one 'entertaining'; Really highlights a complete ignorance of physics. How would a gas know that it's under pressure due to gravity or under pressure because it's in a confined space like a SCUBA tank? The SCUBA tank in my garage is 2x the pressure of the surface of Venus. Why is it ~60F and not ~800F like Venus?

Not sure how a tank of compressed air models an atmosphere, but if the scuba tank was two hundred miles high, you would have a temperature gradient. It would be warmer at the bottom, and colder at the top

Would you agree?

 

[nwdiver]

Not sure how a tank of compressed air models an atmosphere, but if the scuba tank was two hundred miles high, you would have a temperature gradient. It would be warmer at the bottom, and colder at the top

Would you agree?

Depends on what the gas is. If there’s nothing that absorbs IR it would actually be warmer at the top. If the gas is SO2 it would be MUCH warmer at the top. Even Earths atmosphere gets warmer again in the Stratosphere.

The point is that clearly pressure is not a source of heat. Why is Venus hotter than Mercury? Physics says radiative forcing from CO2.

 

[EV-Tiger]

Are you confused by the Math or the Physics? I'm an engineer... maybe I can help.

Which fact do you think is not true?

1) CO2 levels have risen >40% since humanities fossil fuel addiction started
2) The burning of Fossil Fuels has emitted more than twice as much CO2 as would be required for that rise
3) Doubling CO2 will cause a rise in global average temperature of >3C.

The radiative properties of CO2 have been known and tested for >100 years... How can all 3 be true but Global Warming false?

Here are some facts for you to chew on.

 

[nwdiver]

Here are some facts for you to chew on.

Yep. And increasing that small amount of CO2 by 40% increases the radiative forcing by >1.5w/m^2. Not much... when you charge your iPhone that's 10w buuuut... earth is 510M Million meters squared.

So that's (1.5w)(510M)(1000000) = 765,000GW of additional energy. 24/7/365. That's >1600x more energy than all of humanity uses. MATH! SCIENCE!

 

[msm859]

Not!

Your typical climatologist couldn’t engineer their way out of a paper bag!

This is my point. Their “science” is JUNK!

This is why so many REAL scientists and engineers who who ACTUALLY read the science become skeptics.

Most of us started out as true believers based on what we read, the coverage of the science.

When you dig into the actual papers, you start realizing that it’s a house of cards, more propaganda than science.

They love the coverage (and grant gravy train) they get from making apocalyptic prognostications.

Their predictions are always wrong BTW!

The ice caps were going to be gone in 1999, 2008, 2014, 2020, but it never happened.

It is an Apocalyptic cult cloaking itself as science.

Ok. I will jump in. I am not a scientist - just someone who has been around for 60+ years. In my short lifetime the "weather" has changed. We use to have regular well defined seasons - no more. We continue to break records for major weather events - hurricanes, fires etc. The "majority" of scientist say it is because of CO2 gasses that are being added to the atmosphere by mans activities. They have objectively measured such levels along with the rising temperatures on the planet. As to the rising temperatures I don't need them to tell me. I am personally experiencing it. There "theory" sounds reasonable to me.But lets distill this down even more basic. If they are wrong and we listen to them anyways, a lot of good things happen. The air, water, ground will be cleaner. We will not be sending billions to the Middle East to fund terrorists. However, if they are right and we ignore them it will be catastrophic. The right answer seems like a no brainer to me. Even President Reagan who did not believe in the problem about the ozone layer, went ahead with the scientist - saying it was cheap insurance. This sounds like cheap insurance to me.

And when you say "so many REAL scientist..." What percent is that? I have heard 97% of scientist agree that man is causing this. What percent do we need before we say the risk of being wrong is too high to ignore x% of the scientist?

 

[nwdiver]

Not!

Your typical climatologist couldn’t engineer their way out of a paper bag!

This is my point. Their “science” is JUNK!

This is why so many REAL scientists and engineers who who ACTUALLY read the science become skeptics.

Most of us started out as true believers based on what we read, the coverage of the science.

When you dig into the actual papers, you start realizing that it’s a house of cards, more propaganda than science.

They love the coverage (and grant gravy train) they get from making apocalyptic prognostications.

Their predictions are always wrong BTW!

The ice caps were going to be gone in 1999, 2008, 2014, 2020, but it never happened.

It is an Apocalyptic cult cloaking itself as science.

Your entire post is an argument from ignorance, which is a logical fallacy.

Care to form an actual argument?

Still curious as to how you think Microwaves heat food if you think even radiation can't go from cold to hot. Microwaves are < -256C. Or... maybe it's just about energy? Also... why is Venus hotter than Mercury?

 

[nwdiver]

And when you say "so many REAL scientist..." What percent is that? I have heard 97% of scientist agree that man is causing this. What percent do we need before we say the risk of being wrong is too high to ignore x% of the scientist?

What's even more striking is when you look a published research. 99.8% says CO2 is causing global warming.

 

[Thp3]

I don't drink the global warming Kool Aid, but I love electric cars!

Ordered a M3P Blue on Black on 11/7, and eagerly awaiting my VIN.

I intend to go modify my M3P for better handling, ride, and performance.

Dr. Hans Conser
Summerlin Chiropractor

I am a retired computational chemist with a degree in Statistical Thermodynamics. Climate warming is real and the existential challenge of our time.

But this isn’t the venue to troll about it. I do not believe this poster started the discussion to talk about Tesla, but rather to troll EV owners, to just start an argument. I don’t understand the emotional need people have to troll others on forums. But the only response I’ve seen is “don’t feed the trolls”.

So I’m looking for Tesla commentary on other threads.

Just sayin...

I hope the OP does buy a Tesla, but I’m skeptical....

 

[SummerlinChiro]

View attachment 614603

Why is Venus hotter than Mercury?

Venus is hotter than Mercury despite being further from the Sun, because it has a far more massive atmosphere.

Surface pressure is 90 vs 12 Bar.

 

[jbcarioca]

You can get a masters degree in climatology without taking any statistics whatsoever, and even I, a lowly Chiropractor, had to take a year of stats in undergrad

...

View attachment 614610

Nonsense! at least in accredited schools. A Bachelors degree in Climatology is rather more rigorous analytically than that.
Have a look at the requirements from Purdue, for example:
https://catalog.purdue.edu/preview_program.php?catoid=7&poid=6355

I recall Linear Algebra, Multivariate Calculus, Biostatistics and Predictive Analytics following the basic statistics introductory course being requirements for the BS in Climatology at my alma mater.
There is a reason why NO qualified Climatologist can be found to deny anthropogenic climate change. To say NO single one is pretty strong. I have yet to find a single qualified person question this.

There are thousands of well educated people with PhD, MD, DO, DC and other advanced degrees who do not understand this subject at all. Most of them seem to think they do.
During my long life I've seen many people know that things are so; but some of those things just were not true.

This topic does have material relevance to Tesla precisely because the corporate mission is based on science.

Scientists are often wrong but they change their minds quickly when the evidence disproves their hypothesis.

 

[nwdiver]

Venus is hotter than Mercury despite being further from the Sun, because it has a far more massive atmosphere.

Surface pressure is 90 vs 12 Bar.

How does that have anything to do with temperature? I already made it perfectly clear that pressure does not create heat. Where is the heat coming from? If it's hot because of surface pressure why is the bottom of the ocean so cold?

How do ~ -256C microwaves boil water if .....

Cooler things never heat warmer things, but that is exactly what their (stupid) models do.

 

[SummerlinChiro]

What's even more striking is when you look a published research. 99.8% says CO2 is causing global warming.

View attachment 614766

“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.”
- Galileo Galilei

“Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had.”
- Michael Crichton

 

[nwdiver]

“In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual.”
- Galileo Galilei

“Historically, the claim of consensus has been the first refuge of scoundrels; it is a way to avoid debate by claiming that the matter is already settled. Whenever you hear the consensus of scientists agrees on something or other, reach for your wallet, because you’re being had.”
- Michael Crichton

LOL! Someone needs to create a Godwins law for Galileo...

Peer reviewed science of the form. Observation => Hypothesis => Test => Theory => Test, Test, Test, Test, Test, Test...... Test....... forever

Didn't exist in the time of Galileo.

In 1859 when scientists wondered what was keeping the Earth Warm they didn't consult a 2000 year old book... they got to work testing different gasses. Answer: Mostly H2O and CO2.

Global Warming is possibly the most tested theory in the history of science and the error bars have only narrowed around the initial hypothesis.