Bingo! Complacency is exactly the issue. At the end of the day, even a slightly unreliable autopilot makes a long commute infinitely more tolerable just because you won't have to white knuckle it the entire way(my LA to Orange County commute is 2 1/2 hours on some days, one way). Just remember to always keep your eyes on the road and foot near the brake pedal just in case. If I had been paying attention, my accident would have been easily averted.
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Dashcam video: my Tesla smacks armored truck while on Autopilot
- Thread starter Slymonkey
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- autopilot accident
Bingo! Complacency is exactly the issue. At the end of the day, even a slightly unreliable autopilot makes a long commute infinitely more tolerable just because you won't have to white knuckle it the entire way(my LA to Orange County commute is 2 1/2 hours on some days, one way). Just remember to always keep your eyes on the road and foot near the brake pedal just in case. If I had been paying attention, my accident would have been easily averted.
I realise this happened with AP1 and my recent experience with the latest AP2 suggests that it's much more sensitive to vehicles cutting into your lane. I do set the following distance to 6 or 7 (max) at highway speed and that seems to apply braking very early if something ahead pulls into your lane at a safe distance. AP2 is actually quite cautious in that scenario. But I haven't seen how it reacts to someone pulling into your lane when just barely ahead. I'd like to think it would react, but I'm not counting on it!
Another thing I've noticed is that when entering a significant turn radius on a motorway/freeway, if there is a vehicle ahead in the outside lane relative to the turn, AP2 will often dab the brakes thinking that the vehicle ahead is maybe coming across into your lane. Once it realises that vehicle is merely tracking the turn radius in front of you in a separate lane it then gets off the brakes and allows you to pass safely.
Another thing I've noticed is that when entering a significant turn radius on a motorway/freeway, if there is a vehicle ahead in the outside lane relative to the turn, AP2 will often dab the brakes thinking that the vehicle ahead is maybe coming across into your lane. Once it realises that vehicle is merely tracking the turn radius in front of you in a separate lane it then gets off the brakes and allows you to pass safely.
That's not right. Or at least not what the manual says. The manual says you have to keep your hands on the wheel at all times. Eating oatmeal from a bowl requires one hand more-or-less permanently on the spoon and another often on the bowl. If something is too distracting to do without AP, it is also too distracting with AP.
Anything less is slowing down your ability to react to things AP doesn't hande.
I'd also be worried about the effect of a bowl and spoon combined with an airbag would have on the driver's face in the event oncoming traffic decides to veer.
Notwithstanding the comment from Tesla about rain, I have seen AP1 fail to act under these exact same circumstances many times in dry weather -- a moving vehicle slides into the space ahead of my car and the system does not react or reacts so late that a collision is likely or unavoidable without driver intervention. What is tricky is that the system will react in time if the circumstances are just a little bit different -- if the incoming vehicle is just a bit further ahead, for example. So it is difficult to know exactly when to rely on the system and when not to. AP1 is otherwise well-suited for typical stop-and-go traffic, but this scenario shows the driver must not fully trust the system, even though we'd like to.
From using the system for more than 2 years, it has been apparent (but surprising) to me that a vehicle in the adjacent lane must be fairly far ahead of the car before the AP system will "see" and recognize it, at least from what I can see in the instrument cluster display.
That's exactly what I want to know about AP2. So far I haven't had anyone pull out on me suddenly at close range to test it in that scenario. For vehicles that are safely ahead when pulling into my lane AP2 acts instantly and takes a conservative stance - actually sometimes brakes a bit too hard. But at no point have I had to intervene myself to avoid going into the back of another vehicle.
Wow... that lane change scenario (with ap on) happens daily in southern california and of the dozens of so times I've monitored it, (both AP1 and AP2) the car performs to expectations. And in the rain, I could swear that it "sees" better than me. But I'm guessing these are definitely not the case... I wonder if any of the insurance companies will try to say that it was an unsafe lane change on the truck'spart... it definitely looks like he cut the OP off (which, again happens on a daily basis in socal)
No way, the truck signalled early, moved slowly across and the traffic ahead was slowing down too. If you drive into the back of a vehicle in this kind of scenario then you are totally responsible. It would be a different matter if you were half a car length behind, about to overtake, and a vehicle suddenly swerved into your path without signalling. But this was far from that kind of situation.
It is however quite surprising that AP failed to brake. From my own recent experience I'm fairly sure the latest AP2 would react to this scenario, but I wouldn't trust it to. It's been raining here for the last week and I've done a fair amount of motorway travel with cars pulling out ahead of me similar to this and AP2 has been pretty keen on the brakes (if anything overly conservative). Although I haven't had anyone pull out at the last second to really stress test it yet!
There's this weird dialogue that take place in accidents like these. On the one hand -- even the OP! -- people recognize that when using AP the driver must pay attention. On the other, however, there is a group of people that seem incapable of reconciling that even though the driver needs to pay attention, it is fair to expect and demand more from AP. It's so strange. Clearly we can emphasize the need for attentiveness and at the same criticize Tesla. It is not unreasonable for owners to think that certain situations should be manageable by now.
Let's not even watch the FSD video.
Let's not even watch the FSD video.
There's definitely 3 or 4 seconds from the time that the truck initiated a lane change to the time of impact, enough for many drivers to recognize the danger and press the brake.... AP aside, in initiating a lane change, a driver is supposed to change lanes in a way that doesn't cause the car behind you to slam on the brakes.
Thinking about it this way, if this was a non-tesla or if the tesla didn't have ap, and OP posted a video of the accident, or, be in a situation where one isn't supposed to admit fault or place blame (normal in USA) I wonder what law enforcement would write on the police report after viewing the video... who knows...
GatorGuy
Member
If a cop saw the collison or watched the video, the OP would be the one getting a ticket for rear ending the truck. There was ample time to stop.
CarolinaBMXers
Member
Graffi
Member
Brass Guy
Active Member
Obviously the driver's fault... by default.
However, at least in dry conditions, not all cars will act that way with ACC active or even AEB active.
Some 'see' the threat the instant it crosses the lane divider line. First it warns, then brakes.
But that truck driver may not be completely blameless. Failure to yield.
If you pull in front of faster moving traffic and there is a collision, you did not allow enough distance for your lane change. People do this a lot and it's a cause of road rage and/or impacts. The truck just wanted to be going faster, there was no immediate need for a lane change, they just didn't feel like waiting.
It possibly could be a ratio of blame if being litigated, with Loomis most likely the one with the deep pockets.
However, at least in dry conditions, not all cars will act that way with ACC active or even AEB active.
Some 'see' the threat the instant it crosses the lane divider line. First it warns, then brakes.
But that truck driver may not be completely blameless. Failure to yield.
If you pull in front of faster moving traffic and there is a collision, you did not allow enough distance for your lane change. People do this a lot and it's a cause of road rage and/or impacts. The truck just wanted to be going faster, there was no immediate need for a lane change, they just didn't feel like waiting.
It possibly could be a ratio of blame if being litigated, with Loomis most likely the one with the deep pockets.
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Brass Guy
Active Member
My guess is AP and AEB use the same sensors and probably even some of the same software. So if the car did not detect the lane change, neither would AP slow down nor EAB kick in.
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