Union Pacific Is Holding Hostage 20 Tesla Model 3s from Owners Awaiting Delivery: Report Union Pacific Is Holding Hostage 20 Tesla Model 3s from Owners Awaiting Delivery: Report
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Deliveries held hostage by Union Pacific
- Thread starter Sg911
- Start date
Brando
Active Member
Do auto mags print fake news?? How Drive got onto this story, did they really pursue trying to get information - seems unlikely to me.
Why would R&R hold up over $ 2 million dollars of product from a regular customer (Tesla) ?? I call FUD - fake news.
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Good afternoon,
I am NSC011099. I'm going to start off quickly by saying that I am NOT an owner (or fan, for that matter) of Tesla (or any other Elon Musk venture). However, I felt compelled to create this account to clear up some of the smoke surrounding the Tesla/Union Pacific issues.
Although I am not a fan of Tesla, I am a supporter of our nation's railroads, especially Union Pacific. UP literally helped build this country, as I'm sure you all will remember from your education about the 1800s and the Transcontinental Railroad. UP has done a lot of good things for us, and it seems only fair that they be given a fair shake too.
As I'm sure you've all heard, Tesla is the subject of heavy debate right now in regards to Elon Musk and his antics as well as the general probability of the company being around this time next year. Recently, it has come to light that Tesla seemed to be leaving many suppliers "high and dry", as it were, when it comes to getting paid, and even asking for refunds for parts.
Now, Tesla tried to pass this off as a "normal business operation" or something to that extent. I can say that is definitely not the case. I am a supply chain student at a top 10 supply chain school (I'm not going to name which), and I've talked with my professors about this. All of them agree on one thing: that in all of their professional lives, they have never once heard of a company asking their suppliers for refunds like Tesla did. They took this as a sign that Tesla was developing a serious cash problem. It seems that Union Pacific was not spared in this. Railroads do not like dwell time. They want cars on their network moving as much as possible so they're earning revenue for the company. Although these Model 3s are not in a railcar, they are on the lot, and won't be released. Another chat with one of my SCM professors revealed that UP is probably holding onto the cars as collateral until Tesla pays them, as a paperwork snafu would have been resolved by now.
If your car is one of those that is stuck in the lot, contact Tesla. Union Pacific is not going to release the cars because one of them "belongs to you". In reality, it doesn't, unless you already have the title in hand, which from what I understand of the Tesla delivery process, doesn't happen until you get to the SC. If you do not have the title in your hand, then the car is still legally the property of Tesla and will be treated as such. At the same time, I've seen more than a few posts on Twitter that talk about getting 20 people together and "rescuing" the cars from the lot. Although this is likely a joke, I will say that railroad police take their jobs seriously, have arresting power, and are armed. It's not a good idea.
If you have any questions, please ask them. I'm not a "know-all" expert, but I have enough knowledge about the rail industry that I'll do my best to help in that regard.
Thanks,
-NSC011099
I am NSC011099. I'm going to start off quickly by saying that I am NOT an owner (or fan, for that matter) of Tesla (or any other Elon Musk venture). However, I felt compelled to create this account to clear up some of the smoke surrounding the Tesla/Union Pacific issues.
Although I am not a fan of Tesla, I am a supporter of our nation's railroads, especially Union Pacific. UP literally helped build this country, as I'm sure you all will remember from your education about the 1800s and the Transcontinental Railroad. UP has done a lot of good things for us, and it seems only fair that they be given a fair shake too.
As I'm sure you've all heard, Tesla is the subject of heavy debate right now in regards to Elon Musk and his antics as well as the general probability of the company being around this time next year. Recently, it has come to light that Tesla seemed to be leaving many suppliers "high and dry", as it were, when it comes to getting paid, and even asking for refunds for parts.
Now, Tesla tried to pass this off as a "normal business operation" or something to that extent. I can say that is definitely not the case. I am a supply chain student at a top 10 supply chain school (I'm not going to name which), and I've talked with my professors about this. All of them agree on one thing: that in all of their professional lives, they have never once heard of a company asking their suppliers for refunds like Tesla did. They took this as a sign that Tesla was developing a serious cash problem. It seems that Union Pacific was not spared in this. Railroads do not like dwell time. They want cars on their network moving as much as possible so they're earning revenue for the company. Although these Model 3s are not in a railcar, they are on the lot, and won't be released. Another chat with one of my SCM professors revealed that UP is probably holding onto the cars as collateral until Tesla pays them, as a paperwork snafu would have been resolved by now.
If your car is one of those that is stuck in the lot, contact Tesla. Union Pacific is not going to release the cars because one of them "belongs to you". In reality, it doesn't, unless you already have the title in hand, which from what I understand of the Tesla delivery process, doesn't happen until you get to the SC. If you do not have the title in your hand, then the car is still legally the property of Tesla and will be treated as such. At the same time, I've seen more than a few posts on Twitter that talk about getting 20 people together and "rescuing" the cars from the lot. Although this is likely a joke, I will say that railroad police take their jobs seriously, have arresting power, and are armed. It's not a good idea.
If you have any questions, please ask them. I'm not a "know-all" expert, but I have enough knowledge about the rail industry that I'll do my best to help in that regard.
Thanks,
-NSC011099
SomeJoe7777
Marginally-Known Member
You do realize, of course, that the instant you uttered those words that you reduced your credibility to near zero.
Tesla has been predicted to fold about 100 million times since they produced their first cars in 2009, and it still hasn't happened.
I'm all for impartial facts surrounding this Union Pacific issue, but you just sent yourself quite far from impartial with that statement.
You've come here, provided zero evidence to back up literally any of your claims, and you don't mention the fact that Tesla hires an intermodal contractor to handle the logistics. So that also makes me doubt that you're in a "top 10 supply chain school". Since you've filled out your profile detail and offered East Lansing, MI we know you're either at Michigan State or U Michigan. Since Michigan State is right there, we can put together that's where you're going.
Fascinatingly, you're not a fan of Tesla or anything Musk does, which is fine, but you seem to have stumbled upon this thread. Odd. I wonder how a non-Tesla fan would come upon a Tesla forum, and find the single story about UP and Tesla. To say this seems like utter bullshit would be an understatement.
Your understanding of railroads also seems to end slightly before 1880 when the original Union Pacific Rail Road was gobbled up in a merger/restructuring/bail-out. The current UP corp. is in no way at all the same as the original UPRR. Your nostalgia is based in nonsense, and I'm starting to smell the smell of a troll.
If you have a complaint about people on twitter making jokes, go there. Don't bother us with this nonsense. If you're here to offer us insight into logistics and supply chain, have at it. If you're here because you think UP Corp needs a knight in shining armor, go away. They don't need your PR help, they can handle themselves just fine.
So the only thing you're adding to the conversation is to regurgitate what your professors have stated which is all speculation and no facts.
Got it.
I've had my delivery rescheduled at the SLC delivery center four times now. My vehicle could very well be one of these.
This isn't "fake news", and we need to stop throwing that around since it actually means something. The Drive clearly thinks Reddit and Twitter is a good primary source, which is depressing but not unique to them. But, there is actual evidence backing this claim up in that multiple unrelated sources have said their vehicles are delayed indefinitely, and Elon has commented on one of those tweets saying that they're working to fix the logistics problems they have. UP holding onto dozens of cars is one of those problems.
Union Pacific won't comment on the situation, because they aren't idiots. Tesla won't comment further because they also aren't idiots. It's extremely likely that they contract out their intermodal transport to a 3rd party, and that party may have had an issue. It could be as simple as paperwork wasn't filled out properly, or as big as Tesla is withholding payment so UP hasn't been paid for the freight. Hell, it could even be a dispute with carriers that UP refuses to allow on their lots anymore. We don't know. The Drive isn't going to find out, either.
OP, you or your professors have never heard of a company seeking to renegotiate a bill when something hasn't happened as per the contract? I have no idea what the situation is here, we haven't been given any details really so I certainly wouldn't go throwing your suppositions out based on your admitted one-sided support on this issue. Did it occur to you that maybe a delivery of cars was agreed to be delivered by a certain date and weren't? Maybe another delivery had cars that were damaged while on the railcars and Tesla was seeking reasonable compensation for it. We don't know.
Whatever the business matter is between Union Pacific and Tesla right now, I don't see what commenting on Musk's "antics" has anything to do with Tesla, the business. Short sellers are the ones talking up the company failing...and on occasion other ICE car manufacturers too, both of them with much to gain from such an event. So consider the source. As far as 3rd party suppliers of parts goes, if something wasn't manufactured per spec, I'm sure there would be an expected and likely negotiated cost adjustment or return and refund of bad parts. It's called doing business and it happens with companies all over when something isn't as agreed. I've seen those comments in the press about suppliers but never any follow up on specifics. So easy to make statements like this without anything concrete behind it and have some people buy into the unqualified statements as truth. Do you have any specific knowledge of these claims or are you just repeating stuff like that because you "read it somewhere"? If you are studying supply chains, I hope you get some practical knowledge on business negotiations when issues arise, along with verifying statements you hear made. Sometimes there's smoke as you refer to it, but not always fire; sometimes it's just a smoke screen for another purpose.
You seem biased to me by your comments. Also not sure what the history of a company has to do with circumstances today. Weren't the railroads run by "robber barons" if I'm recalling my history of the gilded age you favor bringing up as a reason to support Union Pacific in this instance?
Whatever the business matter is between Union Pacific and Tesla right now, I don't see what commenting on Musk's "antics" has anything to do with Tesla, the business. Short sellers are the ones talking up the company failing...and on occasion other ICE car manufacturers too, both of them with much to gain from such an event. So consider the source. As far as 3rd party suppliers of parts goes, if something wasn't manufactured per spec, I'm sure there would be an expected and likely negotiated cost adjustment or return and refund of bad parts. It's called doing business and it happens with companies all over when something isn't as agreed. I've seen those comments in the press about suppliers but never any follow up on specifics. So easy to make statements like this without anything concrete behind it and have some people buy into the unqualified statements as truth. Do you have any specific knowledge of these claims or are you just repeating stuff like that because you "read it somewhere"? If you are studying supply chains, I hope you get some practical knowledge on business negotiations when issues arise, along with verifying statements you hear made. Sometimes there's smoke as you refer to it, but not always fire; sometimes it's just a smoke screen for another purpose.
You seem biased to me by your comments. Also not sure what the history of a company has to do with circumstances today. Weren't the railroads run by "robber barons" if I'm recalling my history of the gilded age you favor bringing up as a reason to support Union Pacific in this instance?
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Thank you for your collegiate level speculation
Brando
Active Member
One thing we might actually know, is that Utah really isn't welcoming Tesla to sell cars in Utah. Been an uphill battle all the way, right?
How exactly did you plan on clearing things up when you're using conjecture, supposition, and out-right guesses?
Based on your post, that's probably a good call.
Yes, we got that part.
BluestarE3
Active Member
Even better, I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
Hello I am {first_name} {last_name} allow me to explain how mail merge works...
Well, we do know he has a scanner and may listen to the rail road activity.
Quick scanner question - The RadioReference.com Forums
Quick scanner question - The RadioReference.com Forums
Nah, it's a sign that the reporting that you and your profs read was erroneous/ incorrect/ misleading.
I've had OEMs renegotiate pricing mid contract before (with no failings on our part).
