Did Tesla’s Sale Alienate Everyone?

[Austindude]

Still giggling that this stuff keeps being talked about so once again I'll add the link to my own video about Tesla complainers. I apologize to those that have seen me post this video before,

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[OCR1]

What I don't get about this forum is why there are so many posters here who have to attack someone with a different opinion than their own. If someone finds something about Tesla's business practices to be disappointing they have every right to post here. People who attack and criticize them or call them whiners don't add any value to this forum. If anything, they just make themselves look juvenile. If you don't have something constructive to say, maybe you just shouldn't post.

BTW, I did think Austindude's video was pretty funny. We all need to maintain a sense of humor about this stuff because in the long run none of it really matters anyway.

 

[dnvr-ev]

I don’t measure my life by what others have. There are plenty of people much richer than me. I’m not in danger of joining Jeff and Bill in the $100 Billion Club. There are also plenty of people that have less.

If you “got a better deal” than me, good for you, I was quite happy with what I got or I wouldn’t have done it.

So...do you think that not caring about price drops is directly correlated with a person’s income? The more you have the less upset you are about perceived losses?

 

[MarshallUCF]

You forgot to mention the mid range battery mess.

Tesla told people they had a week to buy before they raise the prices. A bunch of people order the MR model. All of a sudden the MR disappears from the order page and people start getting calls that there are no more MR cars to fulfill the orders.

Choices are to switch to SR+ or LR but compensation is different for everyone. If you wanted black paint and aero wheels, you get no compensation moving up to LR. If you wanted a color other than black or the 19” rims, you could get those comped (depending on who you talked to and when).

 

[kaffine]

Tesla has NOT alienated me some of their customers are starting to though. Not that it would stop me from buying a Tesla again. No one said life was fair. I don't have issues with the price changes, I do wish Tesla would stick to their price changes and not offer refunds. They gave refunds the with the P3D and now everyone thinks they are entitled to a refund if Tesla changes prices. I think if Tesla had stuck to the no refunds it would have a lot less complaining. Then again I am an optimist.

I got FSD when I bought my car last year. I knew I was taking a chance that FSD would ever have features not part of EAP, that FSD would increase in cost once they actually got it to do something beyond EAP. I knew that if the more they got FSD to do the more it was worth to me so I gambled that the price would go up not down. There was nothing saying they couldn't change price of FSD up or down. They did say it would be an extra $1k after delivery however they never said that price was locked in at $1k more I had no expectation it would remain $1k more and figured it would increase more than that. Instead it went down so I lost my gamble at least for now next month it might cost more again.

 

[dnvr-ev]

I think a lot of the anger stemmed from how much buyers could afford to shrug off. When Tesla made Model 3 just barely within reach of the middle to upper middle class, they attracted a new buying demographic, myself included. We can just barely afford a new Tesla and we stretched ourselves to buy it. When the price drop hit weeks later, we got upset because we could barely afford our cars to begin with. That is less likely to happen with wealthy buyers. Everything is relative.

I think the SR+ and the discontinued MR scandal is also significant. People can buy an SR+, which really isn’t much different for 60% of the cost that others paid and it looks and drives almost the same. This certainly devalued the Model 3 overall and alienated all the people who spent $10,000-$30,000 more. As long as the SR+ exists, no one will buy the SR and few will buy the LR. Tesla is literally robbing themselves of millions of dollars in profit. It’s another odd choice in a long line of odd choices.

The MR discontinuation is strange, too. It represented a middle ground with a good margin. If Tesla is planning ultimately to have the SR and then Premium options only then maybe it makes sense in the future, but not today and not with outstanding orders unfilled.

 

[gilscales]

few will buy the LR.

That is not true, lots of people take these on long trips and I really would not want an epa rated 240 vs. 325 range as my one and only car.
Today's prices are $37,500 vs. $44,500 or 7K more for a 35% bump in range, a small speed bump 5.0 vs. 5.3 0-60, partial premium vs. premium interior (SR+ has no Subwoofer and one other speaker missing not sure which?, no Satellite-view maps with live traffic visualization, no In-car internet streaming music & media, no Internet browser I know its worthless!, no Location-aware automatic garage door opener) obviously the Battery is the largest expense by far but there is quite a bit of other things in the LR package that for 7K extra is a good value.

 

[dnvr-ev]

That is not true, lots of people take these on long trips and I really would not want an epa rated 240 vs. 325 range as my one and only car.
Today's prices are $37,500 vs. $44,500 or 7K more for a 35% bump in range, a small speed bump 5.0 vs. 5.3 0-60, partial premium vs. premium interior (SR+ has no Subwoofer and one other speaker missing not sure which?, no Satellite-view maps with live traffic visualization, no In-car internet streaming music & media, no Internet browser I know its worthless!, no Location-aware automatic garage door opener) obviously the Battery is the largest expense by far but there is quite a bit of other things in the LR package that for 7K extra is a good value.

The LR has a 75kw vs 50kw battery, but the range is shortened because of weight. 5.3 vs 5.0 seconds will not be noticed by most. The subwoofer, amp, and rear speakers are removed, but owners are still reporting high quality sound that will satisfy most. The rest is just software limitations. The $7k premium is hard to justify.

 

[gilscales]

The LR has a 75kw vs 50kw battery, but the range is shortened because of weight. 5.3 vs 5.0 seconds will not be noticed by most. The subwoofer, amp, and rear speakers are removed, but owners are still reporting high quality sound that will satisfy most. The rest is just software limitations. The $7k premium is hard to justify.

Like I said the range is the most expensive part by far and when I go on road trips I SC about every 150 to 175 miles because after the 100% charge is done and we have to stop we typically charge from about 10% to around 80% plus or minus 5% that gets us the 150 to 175 miles to the next charger so with 35% less range it's going to take a lot longer on road trips for sure.

The "Just software limitations" are still limitations, I like talk radio sometimes so streaming am stations is the only way to get them, streaming songs is great also, don't like the idea of a clip on garage door button anymore, seeing traffic on the nav is great but like you you they are just software limitations that you don't get.

If you are on a budget then the SR+ is a screaming deal, especially if the SR+ is a second car and you won't need it for road trips it makes even more sense.

We replaced 2 cars with our 3, My wife had a 535d that came off lease in July of 2017 so I asked my wife to please drive my car (a 2013 Passat TDI) while we waited a short while for the 3 to come out (short while ha, we got ours at the end of April)

So for 9 months we waited and I drove my work truck, The whole time my wife is telling me she wants another BMW and no way does she want a battery powered car "what if I run out of juice!" so the new car finally arrives and she never misses her BMW, this 3 is her new favorite car and in the 9 months of waiting we learned to share one car and I only had to use the truck for work and short errands.

11 months later and we have almost 21k miles on the 3 so the sharing works and thats one less vehicle we need, but we do need the long range battery or at least it makes it a hell of a lot more convenient.

 

[Johnny Mac]

Nope

 

[trm2]

So...do you think that not caring about price drops is directly correlated with a person’s income? The more you have the less upset you are about perceived losses?

No, I don’t have any perceived losses. I am happy with what I have, with what I do, with who I am. Money isn’t everything.

 

[DB-Cooper]

I got 5 referrals and had been a pretty big Tesla supporter and all but bit peeved by the recent changes and my service experiences. I own a Model 3 and X and love them but have had significant service issues with both cars, particularly my 3 had multiple drive unit failures. Communication sucked and I gave them the benefit of the doubt for being new to mass producing cars. But the sleezy sales tactics is what really upset me after these multiple drops. Got my dad to consider a Tesla as they loved our 3. Tesla reps were pushy and kept getting emails direct from Tesla to buy now or miss out on tax credit and pay more. He had no need for a car for 6 months more when his i3 lease was up at that time but was convinced to buy now or pay $7500 more in the future. Fast forward to these multiple drops and we ended up paying much more for a car that was not needed because of Teslas sales tactics.

After these latest drops and unfair EAP/FSD pricing for various buyers I don't think I am as excited about the company as before. Im sure others feel this way and Tesla may have to start advertising if they are disappointing their previous buyers who purchased high margin vehicles. The closing of stores, laying off reps, and dropped prices on all the cars across the board did not instill confidence in the company and the stock price has responded appropriately. All these changes in 1 announcement is not positive way to introduce a more affordable 35k model which is a marvelous feat on its own. I think waning demand and having huge factories churning out tons of cars leading to too many inventory cars may be a problem for Tesla which many fans may be afraid to admit. If things were positive they would have kept the same premium pricing model on the higher trim models and simply introduce the $35k model with the smaller range battery and no PUP. Everything else fit perfectly to keep their profit margins healthy (9K LR battery upgrade, 5K PUP) but it seems a larger demand problem and Tesla overreaching too far at the expense of their brand loyalty. I still absolutely love the cars but I can honestly say my view towards the company has taken a huge hit these past 2 months.

This is the best summary thus far and more or less echoes my feelings after all of this. People ask me about my car, recently I’ve been saying, “Great car, less great company”.

 

[C141medic]

But EVERYONE who ordered it before, knew that it was a gamble if they were ever going to get it

I agree with the majority of what you said but the above is such a generalized statement. If I wanted to gamble I would’ve went to a casino.

 

[hcdavis3]

The weeks this went on was massive over the top drama. The goal is to sell (semi)automated electric cars as cheap as possible to get them in more hands to reduce emissions and increase safety. I would be happy if they did an across the board price cut of $15,000 and made EAP and FSD free on every new car. For me it's all about the goals and not the self-interest. Please note I am stating what my view is and not stating that everyone else should share my view.

That plus I want a free dog

 

[dnvr-ev]

Like I said the range is the most expensive part by far and when I go on road trips I SC about every 150 to 175 miles because after the 100% charge is done and we have to stop we typically charge from about 10% to around 80% plus or minus 5% that gets us the 150 to 175 miles to the next charger so with 35% less range it's going to take a lot longer on road trips for sure.

The "Just software limitations" are still limitations, I like talk radio sometimes so streaming am stations is the only way to get them, streaming songs is great also, don't like the idea of a clip on garage door button anymore, seeing traffic on the nav is great but like you you they are just software limitations that you don't get.

If you are on a budget then the SR+ is a screaming deal, especially if the SR+ is a second car and you won't need it for road trips it makes even more sense.

We replaced 2 cars with our 3, My wife had a 535d that came off lease in July of 2017 so I asked my wife to please drive my car (a 2013 Passat TDI) while we waited a short while for the 3 to come out (short while ha, we got ours at the end of April)

So for 9 months we waited and I drove my work truck, The whole time my wife is telling me she wants another BMW and no way does she want a battery powered car "what if I run out of juice!" so the new car finally arrives and she never misses her BMW, this 3 is her new favorite car and in the 9 months of waiting we learned to share one car and I only had to use the truck for work and short errands.

11 months later and we have almost 21k miles on the 3 so the sharing works and thats one less vehicle we need, but we do need the long range battery or at least it makes it a hell of a lot more convenient.

For you, LR absolutely makes sense, especially with long drives. Just saying that an average consumer may find it hard to justify the cost difference or the feature difference, meaning a lower profit margin for Tesla. I bet they make 50% more profit on an LR, so they should promote selling that model.

 

[dnvr-ev]

No, I don’t have any perceived losses. I am happy with what I have, with what I do, with who I am. Money isn’t everything.

So, the example I used before was my Gopro camera. I paid $400 for it and then a week later I saw it for $350. $50 is not a lot of money to me, so the perceived loss of $50 didn’t bother me and I didn’t care.

Now scale that up to a car. The Model 3 was reduced $4,000 several weeks later plus there was a $1500 discount and free $1500 wheel upgrade and Autopilot was now $3,000 instead of $5000. Some people perceived that as a $4000 to $9000 loss.

Now, my thinking about how much that matters to someone is based on how much money they make or have. If you make $250,000 a year, you probably won’t care as much as someone who makes $75,000 a year. I’m not saying this applies to you or everyone, but I think in general this is the key factor at play.

 

[Tress]

I don't like the comparison to legacy manufacturers... typically you see the argument stated as "you do not see (fill in the blank) adjusting prices like this" but people forget the dealer model we're you have the exact same car offered for 1,000s of different prices across the country. I do not see people complaining that a Nissan is thousands cheaper in San Antonio vs Houston and prices very widely even within a city. I would much rather have Tesla's price swings than have to hunt for a deal like any of the legacy manufacturers imho.

 

[Jaguar]

Jeep is offering a 10% discount until April 1 and my local dealer is adding another 5% on top of that. Don't hear any earlier buyers asking for a refund. Tesla is being held to a higher standard.

 

[gilscales]

For you, LR absolutely makes sense, especially with long drives. Just saying that an average consumer may find it hard to justify the cost difference or the feature difference, meaning a lower profit margin for Tesla. I bet they make 50% more profit on an LR, so they should promote selling that model.

I think you are right that the average consumer may find the extra cost just too much, so far the majority of consumers to purchase a Tesla do not appear to be average (as far as income) and only when all priced models have been out long enough will we know the take rate against those models, I still feel that most people prefer the AWD models over the RWD so it may be true that the SR+ outsells the LR and not the AWD, only time will tell.

I am waiting for the Y now and this time I will wait until a 100,000 or more are sold and rent one on Turo for a couple of days, if its a more compelling vehicle for me then I will sell my 3 a little early to get one, right now I am so happy with the car though the Y will have to really knock it out of the park !

 

[North75]

So if Tesla had presented the price changes of the cars and software upgrades as a limited time sale, would people have been ok with it?
That’s more or less what they did, they just didn’t present it that way. (Whether or not all of it was preplanned or reactionary is a separate question)
Traditional car dealerships have sales all the time, but people seem ok with them It’s more complicated with dealerships because there is less transparency with all of the behind the scene ways the manufacturers can offer discounts to and through the dealers.

Personally, I happy with the price I paid for the car. I was originally was on the fence on the FSD, but I thought the $2000 price was a good deal, so I went for it. It really doesn’t bother me that others may paid more or less than me.