Dilemma - stick or twist re vehicle choice

[interbear]

I think a good option would be the new Mercedes GLC. You can get it as a hybrid with either a petrol or diesel engine so fuel economy with a diesel should be semi reasonable you'd hope. It's got a claimed range of around 80 miles on electric so should you'd hope pull off 50 miles realistically.

Also of course remember that on longer trips for a reasonable part of it it's part engine, part electric so the fuel economy should also be greatly increased for part of that journey. Only once it's flat is it a regular petrol / diesel with the extra weight impacting fuel economy.

It’s a good suggestion, thanks, but very pricey. Over what I’d like to spend I think. If I was to go the PHEV route I would more likely look seriously at the new Kia Sportage which gets excellent reviews and is better value. Kia seem to be doing a lot of good things with their electric and hybrid vehicles these days, I like the interior layout also. It offers less electric miles than the GLC but enough for daily driving.

 

[interbear]

I had a BMW 2 Series Active Tourer 225XE PHEV on the basis it would take me to central london and back a total of 26 miles on electric. It never used to last on even one leg of the trip. Returned it to BMW after 10 days! They claimed a 50 mile range at the time.

Always an issue whether PHEV, full BEV or an ICE car with it’s reported MPG claims. They are all over estimated and it’s safe to say going with 70% of what they claim is usually a safer bet in real world driving.

To be fair to Tesla, the Model Y actual range vs claimed range in decent driving conditions is pretty good and the trip chart tool is extremely accurate, one of their strong points I think. I was surprised how much it lost in awful weather last weekend but that seems pretty standard for BEV technology.

I was looking at some of the newer BMW PHEVs and will bear your comments in mind. I think they are over priced currently too vs potential alternatives, still applying the brand premium of course.

 

[Js1977]

It offers less electric miles than the GLC but enough for daily driving

Maybe reflect on that for a bit

 

[interbear]

Maybe reflect on that for a bit

I did.

Merc GLC claim is 80 miles range with its 31 kWh battery. Very good for a PHEV but let’s say 56 miles in reality (70%).

Kia Sportage claim is 42 miles range with its 13.8 kWh battery. So, applying the 70% that would be 29 miles in reality. That’s enough for my wife’s daily commute, run to local shops, run to the local forests for dog walks etc. So it would cover, I think, 80% of the local driving we do with a charge every night.

I know that Merc and Kia don’t play in the same segment in terms of brand, but from what I’ve seen Kia has stepped up its quality quite significantly with its latest cars, all backed up by a very good warranty period. And personally I like the design of the Sportage vs the more conservative GLC. Much to like I think.

Although I’m still 70/30 in favour of sticking to the current Model Y + VW campervan combination and using the van for longer journeys.

 

[Js1977]

So it would cover, I think, 80% of the local driving we do with a charge every night.

That is what I meant. Imho if you are keeping the van there will be not point yet another ice for the other 20% plus the van still needs to go for the odd run just to keep it up together.

 

[WannabeOwner]

I was surprised how much it lost in awful weather last weekend but that seems pretty standard for BEV technology

ICE too, just probably less noticeable given the size of the tank relative to the likely number of wet miles driven

I’m still 70/30 in favour of sticking to the current Model Y + VW campervan combination and using the van for longer journeys

Anything coming over the horizon that would make STICK even more attractive?

Penalties for ICE users - e.g. fuel green-escalator tax
2nd have value of ICE falls like a stone in, say, 3 years time
Erosion of benefits on EV - e.g. tax-per-mile driving
Electricity cost even higher - moot if PV accounts for a decent portion of charging
Queues at public chargers even worse (moot if you won't use EV for those journeys)

Best you use your own crystal ball!

 

[interbear]

Anything coming over the horizon that would make STICK even more attractive?

Penalties for ICE users - e.g. fuel green-escalator tax
2nd have value of ICE falls like a stone in, say, 3 years time
Erosion of benefits on EV - e.g. tax-per-mile driving
Electricity cost even higher - moot if PV accounts for a decent portion of charging
Queues at public chargers even worse (moot if you won't use EV for those journeys)

Best you use your own crystal ball!

Indeed, many variables, most of which would point to investing in any ICE vehicle (PHEV or otherwise) as being a potentially retrograde step. One of the reasons for the dilemma and why I’m hesitant about the twist option even if, short term, it seems a pragmatic choice. As I already have both EV and ICE vehicles I can presumably negotiate my way through those variables using whichever vehicle is most suitable (and cost effective at the time) for each task.

I think your 3rd point is very relevant. The perceived cost savings for EV will undoubtably wane in the coming years. We’re already seeing very little, if any, difference in the cost of public charging vs diesel / petrol prices. Tesla supercharging used to be much, much cheaper driving than ICE, that’s just not the case any more and I can’t see that changing. Plus, when the government decides that it needs to maintain its tax take from drivers it’ll need to find a way to tax EV drivers the same as ICE drivers, whether that’s through tax on electricity charging, road use or whatever. That’s an inevitability I think.

 

[init6]

Not crazy but eminently practical. All important measurements can be assessed by using the body. An inch is the distance from the knuckle joint to the end of the thumb.4 inches is the width of the fist. A foot is the length of a shoe. The yard is a normal male stride. 6 feet is the height of a human. The metric system has no practical basis. We had to change because computers were designed to work on the basis of 10 not 12. However mental arithmetic is markedly easier in imperial money and measures.

Not crazy to buy petrol in litres but measure efficiency in MPG?

Metric existed long before computers - 1790s - and is based on natural elements rather than variable human elements.

My wife will pleased to discover I have an above normal hand size

 

[GRiLLA]

Not crazy but eminently practical. All important measurements can be assessed by using the body. An inch is the distance from the knuckle joint to the end of the thumb.4 inches is the width of the fist. A foot is the length of a shoe. The yard is a normal male stride. 6 feet is the height of a human. The metric system has no practical basis. We had to change because computers were designed to work on the basis of 10 not 12. However mental arithmetic is markedly easier in imperial money and measures.

I'm pretty sure I could argue successfully that a KM is a far more practical measure than a mile by being an imaginable number of meters. I could pace out a km but would have to Google how many yards in a mile and probably lose my place counting that. Meters are also far more imaginable in the real world than feet, "in 400 ft take the left turn' means nothing to me. I also generally think a liter is more practical than a pint in most circumstances other than beer, and gallons are pure nonsense. I'll grant that for many things that inches are more practical than cm, except when something it less than an inch as stupid fractions are ridiculous.

 

[FastLaneJB]

It’s a good suggestion, thanks, but very pricey. Over what I’d like to spend I think. If I was to go the PHEV route I would more likely look seriously at the new Kia Sportage which gets excellent reviews and is better value. Kia seem to be doing a lot of good things with their electric and hybrid vehicles these days, I like the interior layout also. It offers less electric miles than the GLC but enough for daily driving.

Hey no worries and from the sounds of it you'd be paying for a battery larger than you probably need. I guess the sweet spot with PHEV is to get just enough battery to cover most of your journeys but not much more as that's then expense without much benefit. Yes you'd get a better mpg on longer trips but in the scheme if you don't do that too often it ain't going to offset the extra vehicle purchase cost.

I think a lot of these PHEV's are vastly upping their range because of the tax bands on BIK. Less than 30 miles range is 14% tax, 30 to 39 is 12%, 40 to 69 is 8%, 70 to 129 is 5% and if we ever get a car that does 130 miles or more that's 2%, same as a full battery electric car. The sweet spot hence is I'd probably say just pushing over the 70 mile mark. Probably gets too expensive to put a battery large enough for 130 miles into a PHEV just for tax reasons as it's also then probably way too much extra cost for personal buyers. 130 miles is too much range when you are trying to cover the bulk of peoples journeys, not all of them. Most need probably between 30 - 50 at the top end.

 

[roadcred]

I'm pretty sure I could argue successfully that a KM is a far more practical measure than a mile by being an imaginable number of meters. I could pace out a km but would have to Google how many yards in a mile and probably lose my place counting that. Meters are also far more imaginable in the real world than feet, "in 400 ft take the left turn' means nothing to me. I also generally think a liter is more practical than a pint in most circumstances other than beer, and gallons are pure nonsense. I'll grant that for many things that inches are more practical than cm, except when something it less than an inch as stupid fractions are ridiculous.

And there in one paragraph is the damage metrication has done to mental arithmetic? When Employers insist that students should continue maths until they leave school it is basically arithmetic and numeracy that they want and metrication unfortunately destroyed "nous"

 

[interbear]

And there in one paragraph is the damage metrication has done to mental arithmetic? When Employers insist that students should continue maths until they leave school it is basically arithmetic and numeracy that they want and metrication unfortunately destroyed "nous"

I do chuckle at the way my post about a EV v PHEV dilemma turns into a discussion about the competing merits of the metric system vs imperial measurements Me, I’m firmly in favour of standardising on the metric system. Far easier to understand and more commonly applied. It’s quite a far reaching statement to say that metrication has damaged the mental arithmetic skills of the nation.

 

[init6]

Whether you believe Metric or Imperial is the way to go, having a mixed system is daft.

 

[interbear]

Whether you believe Metric or Imperial is the way to go, having a mixed system is daft.

Agreed.

Which nicely brings me back to my original dilemma on whether or not to switch from a Model Y to PHEV to cover longer journeys. PHEV of course being a mixed system of EV and ICE. Some would say that's daft too, a compromise in terms of both electric tech and ICE tech.

I've concluded, thanks to input on this thread, that I agree with this and will STICK with my Model Y and VW campervan combination. I love driving the Model Y, it handles 80-90% of our driving needs wonderfully. I will simply use the VW van when I think that the electric charging infrastructure poses a challenge in terms of journey time or convenience.

 

[HenryT]

My introduction to EV's was via a Mercedes c350e which had a 'claimed' range of 12 miles. I only really bought it because of the zero road tax and being interested in finding out if it would be practical for us as I was retiring at the same time.

We found that despite such a tiny range, the electric side of the equation worked well, as our daily journeys were mainly pretty short anyway and we did routinely plug it in whenever home. What was a surprise was how well it seemed to cope on longer journeys as the regeneration seemed very good and the car would report about a third of any longer journey being electric powered. The quoted MPG being 60 - 80 or higher.

 

[Casss]

Agreed.

Which nicely brings me back to my original dilemma on whether or not to switch from a Model Y to PHEV to cover longer journeys. PHEV of course being a mixed system of EV and ICE. Some would say that's daft too, a compromise in terms of both electric tech and ICE tech.

I've concluded, thanks to input on this thread, that I agree with this and will STICK with my Model Y and VW campervan combination. I love driving the Model Y, it handles 80-90% of our driving needs wonderfully. I will simply use the VW van when I think that the electric charging infrastructure poses a challenge in terms of journey time or convenience.

For those of us who are into them - what conversion have you got on your camper?

 

[interbear]

For those of us who are into them - what conversion have you got on your camper?

This one : Autohaus Factory - Ashton - same colour as on the website too. Love it. It’s a fairly standard conversion set up for a VW Transporter - double bed on the bottom, pop top roof with another bed, gas hob, fridge, BBQ connection and a shower connection for after muddy dog walks. Engine is a 150 DSG, easy to drive and enough oomph to get up hills.

 

[init6]

I will simply use the VW van when I think that the electric charging infrastructure poses a challenge in terms of journey time or convenience.

Don't discount the CPS chargers. The ones in South Lanarkshire e.g. Abington, Crawford are pretty well maintained and not too far off the motorway. Not as fast as SuCs, but should get you to Govan

 

[interbear]

Don't discount the CPS chargers. The ones in South Lanarkshire e.g. Abington, Crawford are pretty well maintained and not too far off the motorway. Not as fast as SuCs, but should get you to Govan

You make a good point. Over on the east side of the Borders I've found CPS charging to be a tad unreliable, so perhaps my view is tainted by that experience. The other potential strategy is to charge up fully at EuroCentral and get as far south as possible to try and avoid Gretna and Tebay. Would be good if the Charnock Richard services were available south as well as northbound but I gather that is not the case.

All roads lead to and from Govan though, so I'll find a way

 

[Casss]

This one : Autohaus Factory - Ashton - same colour as on the website too. Love it. It’s a fairly standard conversion set up for a VW Transporter - double bed on the bottom, pop top roof with another bed, gas hob, fridge, BBQ connection and a shower connection for after muddy dog walks. Engine is a 150 DSG, easy to drive and enough oomph to get up hills.

Very nice! Ours is more of a swamper (faux by faux mind you, not 4 motion) a manual, 110 and my one wish is that they made a 6 speed manual or that we went for DSG. It would make long motorway stints much better. One thing I will say for the manual is it's a bit easier to work around VW's very picky traction control when trying to get through and out of muddy tracks / fields!


With the 110 engine you do have to be more weight conscious - we've gone full lightweight materials in ours whereas you see people driving around in 110's or even 90's that are absolutely laden with heavy cabinetry and kit - struggling!