EAP with HW 3, real world benefit FSD in Europe / Netherlands?

[quarkeater]

Just got the model X 2018 a few days ago in Netherlands Directly from Tesla. It took us a long while to confirm the hardware autopilot version. In Dutch the autopilot computer description says “mogelijkheid voor full self-driving”, which translates to “possibility for FSD”. Anyways, changing to English it just says full self driving computer, which we found out yesterday.

Many (old) posts shares the limitations of each ap hw, but it’s confusing for new owners (with older Teslas). This model x got enhanced autopilot and see cones and traffic light chimes, which in some posts in the past alleged to only part of FSD. It seems that EAP gets more features over the years, so we try to understand if there are more benefits for FSD that is not advertised. As many have asked, what exactly is there more with FSD which we can purchase for €3700, besides responding to traffic and stop lights (different than what we have with chimes?) and autosteer on city streets.

 

[quarkeater]

Also, we can’t get monthly FSD, also helpful to understand if that is something we need to ask for or it doesn’t exist in NL?

p.s. paying for FSD would have been worth it for us if we didn’t have HW 3. Since we Would get mor visualisations already with EAP.

 

[TresLA]

I believe that 2018 Model X would have come w AP HW2.5. If a previous owner had purchased FSD Capability, then they would have had the option to upgrade to HW3 starting in early 2020 or so. If in English the specs/details of the AP computer says “Full Self-Driving computer”, then that sounds like HW3.

Right now the added features of FSD Capability package over EAP is small. FSD Capability package has always been sold as an investment in the future of your vehicle. At some unknown future time, you’d receive all future features that get released, including FSD (sleep in the backseat while the car drives you) when that’s (someday) available. It locks in the price instead of having to pay more for it in the future since they keep raising the price.

For awhile, only FSD Capability package was available and EAP was no more (except in europe? I don’t remember). Enough people complained that they wanted to pay for the currently available features only, so they brought back EAP for those customers.

You’ll get varied opinions here as to whether FSD Capability package is worth it or not, whether it’s a scam, etc. Personally, we’ve seen it as worth it to lock in the price and get future features as they’ve been released, especially with our older one when FSD Capability package was much cheaper and a number of the currently available features didn’t exist yet. We also plan to keep our cars (especially the older one with free supercharging) for a long time.

 

[quarkeater]

I believe that 2018 Model X would have come w AP HW2.5. If a previous owner had purchased FSD Capability, then they would have had the option to upgrade to HW3 starting in early 2020 or so. If in English the specs/details of the AP computer says “Full Self-Driving computer”, then that sounds like HW3.

Right now the added features of FSD Capability package over EAP is small. FSD Capability package has always been sold as an investment in the future of your vehicle. At some unknown future time, you’d receive all future features that get released, including FSD (sleep in the backseat while the car drives you) when that’s (someday) available. It locks in the price instead of having to pay more for it in the future since they keep raising the price.

For awhile, only FSD Capability package was available and EAP was no more (except in europe? I don’t remember). Enough people complained that they wanted to pay for the currently available features only, so they brought back EAP for those customers.

You’ll get varied opinions here as to whether FSD Capability package is worth it or not, whether it’s a scam, etc. Personally, we’ve seen it as worth it to lock in the price and get future features as they’ve been released, especially with our older one when FSD Capability package was much cheaper and a number of the currently available features didn’t exist yet. We also plan to keep our cars (especially the older one with free supercharging) for a long time.

Thanks. Indeed a future investment, but it seems a lot of people thought it would be just in a year or two, but it seems it’s taking a while now and some are on their third FSD car/payment.

The roads in Europe are also ore complicated so I would assume it would take a while after full fsd is introduced in the US.

But… I hope someone could share if there are any more real word benefits.

 

[EVRider-FL]

In my opinion, you wouldn't get enough benefit for the investment in FSD at this time. It will probably be years before you get any real value, even here in the US. Maybe at some point Tesla will offer an FSD subscription in the Netherlands, and then you can try it, since you apparently have HW3 already. In the US, the subscription is $100/month if your car has EAP.

I just upgraded my 2018 Model S, which had FSD, to a 2023 S, and I did not purchase FSD this time. I did purchase EAP. I figured I can subscribe to FSD later if I decide I want it.

 

[spacecoin]

But… I hope someone could share if there are any more real word benefits.

Hi! Fellow European here. The is no benefit of getting FSD over EAP in Europe at present. I wouldn’t recommend anyone to get EAP even as lane changes with the stalk and parking assistance is what you get. If you have a wheelchair perhaps its worth it for using the phone to drive the car in and out of tight parking spaces. The range is super nerfed compared to the US, which makes smart summon useless.

I recommend people to get the included basic AP without eap/fsd on new cars.

Edit: also, wait until Tesla has a technical solution that actually works in the EU. test it yourself before buying. i bought fsd in 2019. that was a completed wasted 7000 EUR.

 

[quarkeater]

The range is super nerfed compared to the US, which makes smart summon useless.

That's also a bit confusing when seeing US YouTubers sharing how to use some features and finding out in Europe it's not possible (or nerfed).

In my opinion, you wouldn't get enough benefit for the investment in FSD at this time. It will probably be years before you get any real value, even here in the US.

I figured. It's kinda 'overwhelming' as a first time Tesla user to figure out this all out. Just found out the third party Tessie, another thing to work out. Any tips you have besides official Tesla stuff? I know it's a 'common' question. We are on a road trip from Netherlands through the UK to Ireland by ferry. It's been interesting to get disappointed with Tesla destination chargers database that it's not really up to date, the super chargers are great.

 

[spacecoin]

That's also a bit confusing when seeing US YouTubers sharing how to use some features and finding out in Europe it's not possible (or nerfed).

Yeah, that and Tesla really is dishonest in the messaging around these products in the EU. "some of these functions may need manual confirmation by the driver" is code for "it doesn't really work here until the law is changed".

As I said (edited) in my other post; wait until Tesla has a technical solution that actually works in the EU. Test it yourself before buying. I bought fsd in 2019. that was a completely wasted 7000 EUR.

 

[quarkeater]

Test it yourself before buying. I bought fsd in 2019. that was a completely wasted 7000 EUR.

I can see how it's easy to pay more for FSD after my current experience with the software. Although EAP was included, it's quite 'nice' to play with the options, but the lane changing suggestions gets on my nerves rather quickly. YouTubers with Beta software in the US does look a lot better and promising. But I can't see it working with the roads we have. In the Netherlands there are often in the cites no road lanes in the middle, it's somehow adjust for bicycles, so I would assume it will take a long while. In other countries they don't even bother redrawing the road lines after the road was made...even for highways!

Anyways. I would try to not push the button for FSD. I would have it would replace the AP Hardware to 3.0. The visualisations are pretty cool, especially when visibility is limited.

 

[vanwho]

So annoyed at VW, BMW, Mercedes regulatory capture of EU market making the laws keep everything nerfed until their pathetic cars can catch up a little bit. Their software houses are so incredibly far behind it will be years, so we get junk features and a 2015 experience while they try and catch up and will eventually allow the laws to be changed. Germany didn't start giving any electric car subsidies out until 2020 when the iD.3 finally came to market. So damn corrupt, and slow. Having to hit the pedal every time for stop light junk and lane change suggestion stalk moves is so dumb when it works so well beyond the unnecessary law. The Germans, as usual, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[spacecoin]

So annoyed at VW, BMW, Mercedes regulatory capture of EU market making the laws keep everything nerfed until their pathetic cars can catch up a little bit. Their software houses are so incredibly far behind it will be years, so we get junk features and a 2015 experience while they try and catch up and will eventually allow the laws to be changed. Germany didn't start giving any electric car subsidies out until 2020 when the iD.3 finally came to market. So damn corrupt, and slow. Having to hit the pedal every time for stop light junk and lane change suggestion stalk moves is so dumb when it works so well beyond the unnecessary law. The Germans, as usual, ladies and gentlemen.

I call bullshit. If Tesla could deliver highway Level 3 autonomy there's UNECE R157 since two years back. Tesla has done zero work on EU stop signs, so don't expect to be impressed if you throw 7kEUR on "fsd".

Again, this isn't the EU. EU is actually pushing for new regulation, but UNECE contains many countries outside the EU, such as Japan and Russia to name a few.

 

[vanwho]

EU stop signs? What are you on about? They work flawlessly the same as in the US, because they're practically the same as the US.

Oh look, modifications written via Germany: ADAS 22-12 (Germany) Comments to ADAS-22-02Rev1.docx - Transport - Vehicle Regulations - UNECE Wiki

Everything from Germany gets allowed, as VW finally starts trying lane changes n such, how interesting. All modifications requested by Tesla, little things, have all been rejected in the past years.

Either way, iceberg pace and German capture at UNECE, and EU choice to only follow that.

 

[spacecoin]

EU stop signs? What are you on about? They work flawlessly the same as in the US, because they're practically the same as the US.

Sorry typo. Meant traffic lights... They are placed differently and the side-arrow lights doesn't work at all where I live. Constant false-positives. Also nothing "works flawlessly" wrt FSD. Not even in the US.

Oh look, modifications written via Germany: ADAS 22-12 (Germany) Comments to ADAS-22-02Rev1.docx - Transport - Vehicle Regulations - UNECE Wiki

Everything from Germany gets allowed, as VW finally starts trying lane changes n such, how interesting. All modifications requested by Tesla, little things, have all been rejected in the past years.

Either way, iceberg pace and German capture at UNECE, and EU choice to only follow that.

Again BS. Every member country comments as a part of the process in the same folder you have comments from Norway, Uk, Japan, the EC and industry organisations. Previously others have commented or contributed.

In my opinion, Germany has been forward-leaning and the biggest opposition has been from the NL and NO afaik.

Marc Van Impe is chairing the DCAS work and he's a Tesla employee 7 years back... Current title: "Government Affairs Manager, Vehicle Safety & Automation at Tesla"

https://www.linkedin.com/in/marcvimpe