Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register
  • The final cut of the 9th episode of the Tesla Motors Club Podcast, featuring Chad Schwitters, the former president of Plug In America, is now available. You can watch it now on YouTube or listen to it on all major podcast networks.

EAP with Update 2018.14.13 - Phantom Braking

I was driving today in my 3 with update 2018.14.13 and on two different occasions with nothing I could see to cause it the vehicle applied the brakes firmly from 75mph and then let off. The first time a big pickup was behind me and it scared the crap out of me as I did not want to be rear ended or to piss the guy off and have hime decide to try and run me off the road thinking I was doing it on purpose. He was coming up on me fast but I figured he would go around me since I was in the right lane. Probably scared him too. Luckily the second time there was no one behind me. I think Tesla needs to find a fix for this before one of us has an accident caused by this unexpected behavior. If there was a set of known conditions that trigger this we could at least try and ameliorate the behavior by disengaging AP when we saw the conditions materializing. I can't find any consistent pattern to suggest what triggers it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: xanatos

EV-lutioin

Active Member
Apr 2, 2016
2,066
3,056
California
On the other hand, EAP is really good at reacting to cars that suddenly cut across the road in front of you. Several people have posted how this sensitivity prevented catastrophic accidents. Striking a balance must is difficult, Tesla takes a lot of heat if their cars don't stop for objects so it makes sense that they are turning up the sensitivity a bit. I have also had a few minor phantom braking incidents, but each time I could quickly and easily press the accelerator petal to override it well before it caused a problem for cars behind me.
 

brkaus

Well-Known Member
Jul 8, 2014
8,507
7,141
Austin, TX
I was driving today in my 3 with update 2018.14.13 and on two different occasions with nothing I could see to cause it the vehicle applied the brakes firmly from 75mph and then let off. The first time a big pickup was behind me and it scared the crap out of me as I did not want to be rear ended or to piss the guy off and have hime decide to try and run me off the road thinking I was doing it on purpose. He was coming up on me fast but I figured he would go around me since I was in the right lane. Probably scared him too. Luckily the second time there was no one behind me. I think Tesla needs to find a fix for this before one of us has an accident caused by this unexpected behavior. If there was a set of known conditions that trigger this we could at least try and ameliorate the behavior by disengaging AP when we saw the conditions materializing. I can't find any consistent pattern to suggest what triggers it.

I expect that, for a while, there will be a balancing act between phantom braking and failure to brake. Initially they were leaning toward failure to brake, assuming drivers actually paid attention. If folks are paying attention, this is the safest failure as it doesn't come as a surprise. But with the folks not paying attention and running into things (and killing themselves), they are tipping the scale the other direction.

Of course, just my speculation.
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: Shoal007
Had this happened once to me and my wife. In both instances we had no idea why breaking was applied.

IMO this obsession to resolve the issues with stationary objects (which I bet this is the result of) can be more detrimental than anything else.

Stationary objects are usually not a problem for a driver that is paying attention. Instances of drivers who died as a result of stationary objects suggest that they were not paying attention at all to the road.

Phantom breaking on the other can lead to a deadly accident to someone who is paying attention.

I am definitely more concerned by my car doing this than my car failing to stop for a truck that is upside down in the middle of the freeway.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blue in NC

Randy Spencer

Supercharger Hunter
Mar 31, 2016
4,319
4,816
Alameda, CA
I don't care if it phantom brakes, the idea that it could save my life makes me happy. I am usually quick (as I get it ALL the time) with the accelerator, to move it past the thing it is freakin' about.

I do wish that it was aware MORE quickly. That goes for ALL braking. Why does it wait until it has to uncomfortably apply the brakes all the time? "Oh look, there are a bunch of cars stopped ahead, I'll accelerate towards them" Annoying.

I thought the cars were supposed to learn from us, who has been modeling this behavior? I am off the gas at twice the distance the car starts slowing by itself.

Perhaps it's trying to hard regen to get back some of the power it used. I don't believe it is even saving what I saved by releasing the pedal way back there!

-Randy

PS. If you can say you taped something on a DVR I can say I let my foot off the gas on an electric car
 
Randy, I have to agree with you on the behavior. I can see that cars are slowing or stopping ahead and it does seem to accelerate toward them, then apply the brakes. Whereas when I am driving I would have taken my foot off the accelerator as soon as I saw the slow down in anticipation of having to stop and not wanting to have to stop suddenly. Between the radar and the cameras is should be able to detect the slowdown as quickly or even more quickly than I do but it doesn't. I keep wondering how far along their visual recognition software is since there is no evidence that it can read signs, see stop signs or red lights or car tail lights/stop lights. It also can't seem to see cars crossing perpendicular to your vehicle. I have no idea if it can see pedestrians or bicycles. After 2 years you would think they would have been able to develop visual pattern recognition sufficiently to achieve a few of these.
 
  • Like
Reactions: streetskooler

nitzmahone

Member
Supporting Member
Feb 28, 2018
60
157
Portland, OR
Yep, I had this happen a couple of times on my Seattle trip with TACC/Autosteer enabled when approaching a large dip or a dark asphalt patch on a light concrete road (both in areas that were under construction). It was a little jarring, but very quick and made sense when looking at what I'd just driven over. I haven't had it happen on an overpass shadow yet (though I'm a little more vigilant when Autopilot-ing through them since I've heard that's an issue).
 
I was driving today in my 3 with update 2018.14.13 and on two different occasions with nothing I could see to cause it the vehicle applied the brakes firmly from 75mph and then let off. The first time a big pickup was behind me and it scared the crap out of me as I did not want to be rear ended or to piss the guy off and have hime decide to try and run me off the road thinking I was doing it on purpose. He was coming up on me fast but I figured he would go around me since I was in the right lane. Probably scared him too. Luckily the second time there was no one behind me. I think Tesla needs to find a fix for this before one of us has an accident caused by this unexpected behavior. If there was a set of known conditions that trigger this we could at least try and ameliorate the behavior by disengaging AP when we saw the conditions materializing. I can't find any consistent pattern to suggest what triggers it.
Guys: This can become a serious issue. I had this happen to me before with slight braking before, but this morning, it braked pretty hard (going under underpass) and luckily the car behind me was pretty far away otherwise I would have been rear ended again. During all the times it occurred, always during the early morning/evening (hence probably less of an issue during daylight)

Please take notice of this and be careful when engaging autopilot. I hope Tesla takes note of this and fixes it soon....it can be fairly dangerous. In the meantime, I have taken to driving again without autopilot until the next update.
 

Products we're discussing on TMC...

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top