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EAP with Update 2018.14.13 - Phantom Braking

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by barjohn, May 3, 2018.

  1. barjohn

    barjohn Member

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    I was driving today in my 3 with update 2018.14.13 and on two different occasions with nothing I could see to cause it the vehicle applied the brakes firmly from 75mph and then let off. The first time a big pickup was behind me and it scared the crap out of me as I did not want to be rear ended or to piss the guy off and have hime decide to try and run me off the road thinking I was doing it on purpose. He was coming up on me fast but I figured he would go around me since I was in the right lane. Probably scared him too. Luckily the second time there was no one behind me. I think Tesla needs to find a fix for this before one of us has an accident caused by this unexpected behavior. If there was a set of known conditions that trigger this we could at least try and ameliorate the behavior by disengaging AP when we saw the conditions materializing. I can't find any consistent pattern to suggest what triggers it.
     
    • Like x 1
  2. RDaneel

    RDaneel Member

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    I had this while going under an overpass, but I think that is a known issue.
     
  3. fr100

    fr100 Member

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    Happened to me twice. Both times in the morning in front of big shadows. Had it happen to me in previous firmwares at an underpass.
     
  4. EV-lutioin

    EV-lutioin Active Member

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    On the other hand, EAP is really good at reacting to cars that suddenly cut across the road in front of you. Several people have posted how this sensitivity prevented catastrophic accidents. Striking a balance must is difficult, Tesla takes a lot of heat if their cars don't stop for objects so it makes sense that they are turning up the sensitivity a bit. I have also had a few minor phantom braking incidents, but each time I could quickly and easily press the accelerator petal to override it well before it caused a problem for cars behind me.
     
  5. brkaus

    brkaus Well-Known Member

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    I expect that, for a while, there will be a balancing act between phantom braking and failure to brake. Initially they were leaning toward failure to brake, assuming drivers actually paid attention. If folks are paying attention, this is the safest failure as it doesn't come as a surprise. But with the folks not paying attention and running into things (and killing themselves), they are tipping the scale the other direction.

    Of course, just my speculation.
     
    • Helpful x 1
  6. xav-

    xav- Active Member

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    Had this happened once to me and my wife. In both instances we had no idea why breaking was applied.

    IMO this obsession to resolve the issues with stationary objects (which I bet this is the result of) can be more detrimental than anything else.

    Stationary objects are usually not a problem for a driver that is paying attention. Instances of drivers who died as a result of stationary objects suggest that they were not paying attention at all to the road.

    Phantom breaking on the other can lead to a deadly accident to someone who is paying attention.

    I am definitely more concerned by my car doing this than my car failing to stop for a truck that is upside down in the middle of the freeway.
     
    • Like x 1
  7. Randy Spencer

    Randy Spencer Active Member

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    I don't care if it phantom brakes, the idea that it could save my life makes me happy. I am usually quick (as I get it ALL the time) with the accelerator, to move it past the thing it is freakin' about.

    I do wish that it was aware MORE quickly. That goes for ALL braking. Why does it wait until it has to uncomfortably apply the brakes all the time? "Oh look, there are a bunch of cars stopped ahead, I'll accelerate towards them" Annoying.

    I thought the cars were supposed to learn from us, who has been modeling this behavior? I am off the gas at twice the distance the car starts slowing by itself.

    Perhaps it's trying to hard regen to get back some of the power it used. I don't believe it is even saving what I saved by releasing the pedal way back there!

    -Randy

    PS. If you can say you taped something on a DVR I can say I let my foot off the gas on an electric car
     
    • Like x 4
  8. barjohn

    barjohn Member

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    Randy, I have to agree with you on the behavior. I can see that cars are slowing or stopping ahead and it does seem to accelerate toward them, then apply the brakes. Whereas when I am driving I would have taken my foot off the accelerator as soon as I saw the slow down in anticipation of having to stop and not wanting to have to stop suddenly. Between the radar and the cameras is should be able to detect the slowdown as quickly or even more quickly than I do but it doesn't. I keep wondering how far along their visual recognition software is since there is no evidence that it can read signs, see stop signs or red lights or car tail lights/stop lights. It also can't seem to see cars crossing perpendicular to your vehicle. I have no idea if it can see pedestrians or bicycles. After 2 years you would think they would have been able to develop visual pattern recognition sufficiently to achieve a few of these.
     
    • Like x 1
  9. 1051

    1051 Member

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    It would be nice if we finally received a update with improved parking, WiFi and summon?
     
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  10. nitzmahone

    nitzmahone Supporting Member

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    Yep, I had this happen a couple of times on my Seattle trip with TACC/Autosteer enabled when approaching a large dip or a dark asphalt patch on a light concrete road (both in areas that were under construction). It was a little jarring, but very quick and made sense when looking at what I'd just driven over. I haven't had it happen on an overpass shadow yet (though I'm a little more vigilant when Autopilot-ing through them since I've heard that's an issue).
     
  11. Pkmmte

    Pkmmte Le meow

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    Huh, I thought this was done on purpose to make sure we're paying attention since it happens to me so frequently. It's constantly nagging to for me to hold the steering wheel so I had assumed that sudden braking was just a little "test" to scare me or something.
     
    • Funny x 2
  12. barjohn

    barjohn Member

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    It works doesn't it? :)
     
  13. dhu1

    dhu1 Member

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    Guys: This can become a serious issue. I had this happen to me before with slight braking before, but this morning, it braked pretty hard (going under underpass) and luckily the car behind me was pretty far away otherwise I would have been rear ended again. During all the times it occurred, always during the early morning/evening (hence probably less of an issue during daylight)

    Please take notice of this and be careful when engaging autopilot. I hope Tesla takes note of this and fixes it soon....it can be fairly dangerous. In the meantime, I have taken to driving again without autopilot until the next update.
     

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