Elon: FSD Beta tweets

[diplomat33]

Today Mary Barra said "Ultra Cruse coming next year…..door to door hands free driving in 95% of driving scenarios…." Sound like at least Level 3 and probably Level 4.

Time stamp: 8:40

No. Ultra Cruise is what they call "L2+". It is "door-to-door" but still a driver assist and will require driver supervision. Drivers will be able to go hands-free but will need to keep their eyes on the road, monitored by the driver facing camera.

 

[gangzoom]

Are you certain of that? I've not heard this from anywhere else...

 

[EVNow]

Today Mary Barra said "Ultra Cruse coming next year…..door to door hands free driving in 95% of driving scenarios…." Sound like at least Level 3 and probably Level 4.

Time stamp: 8:40

Her PR team told her she needs to be more like Elon to make GM the leader in EV industry

 

[EVNow]

No. Ultra Cruise is what they call "L2+". It is "door-to-door" but still a driver assist and will require driver supervision. Drivers will be able to go hands-free but will need to keep their eyes on the road, monitored by the driver facing camera.

I’m told there are no + or dot levels. Just levels which are not hierarchical - so level 1 could be better than level 5.

 

[Terminator857]

Interesting perspective. Were it not for a certain optimist Tesla and SpaceX would not exist.
I suspect were it not for optimists most great initiatives in this world would also not exist.

Was Elizabeth Holmes optimistic? We can do great things without taking people's money while being overly optimistic.

 

[diplomat33]

I’m told there are no + or dot levels. Just levels which are not hierarchical - so level 1 could be better than level 5.

Yes, that is correct according to SAE J3016. You don't have to tell me about the levels. But that is why I wrote "what they call "L2+"" and put L2+ in quotes to show that it is a term that people use. Some automakers are using "L2+" to try to denote that their system is "more" than L2 while still being technically L2. Even Shashua of Mobileye used "L2+" at CES2022 to describe SuperVision. So the term has become a popular term, even though it is made up and actually not allowed by SAE J3016.

 

[diplomat33]

Just to expand on my previous post. The SAE levels are useful to describe certain characteristics of automated driving. But the SAE levels are not perfect. According to the SAE levels, L2 is technically just hands-on lane centering + adaptive cruise control while L3 is limited self-driving where the driver can take their eyes off the road in certain cases. So there is a big gap between L2 and L3. Systems such as FSD Beta, Ultra Cruise and SuperVision fall in between L2 and L3. They are more than basic L2 but not quite L3. So how do you describe something that is in between two levels? SAE J3016 does not allow for in between levels. To answer this, some companies have started using the informal term "L2+". The "+" is meant to denote that the system offers more features than just basic L2. It is not allowed by SAE J3016 but companies are doing it anyway to describe these systems that are in between L2 and L3.

 

[TIppy]

It's not entirely true. Tesla does allow you at any time to sell your model 3/Y lease mid-term to carmax/carvana/any 3rd party dealer.

if you look here, Tesla explicitly prohibits sales to third parties:

Lease-End Options | Tesla Support

If you’re looking to return your vehicle and upgrade before the end of your lease, we offer several options to end your lease early.

www.tesla.com

"

Purchase Your Tesla​

You may be eligible to purchase your leased Tesla. Review your lease agreement to see if you qualify.


Eligibility

• Model 3 and Model Y are not eligible at this time.
• Third-party dealerships and third-party individuals are not eligible to purchase leased vehicles.

"
Is there something in the actual lease documents that states otherwise?

If there is more than a year left on the lease, you can transfer it to another individual, though. But they are still required to return it to Tesla at the end of the lease.

 

[EVNow]

Was Elizabeth Holmes optimistic? We can do great things without taking people's money while being overly optimistic.

You have to look at delivered products and judge a person.

If Gandhi had not succeeded in forcing change peacefully in South Africa, nobody would have listened to him in India.

What exactly had Holmes done ?

 

[EVNow]

The SAE levels are useful to describe certain characteristics of automated driving. But the SAE levels are not perfect.

SAE levels are useless. We can continue the conversation in the dedicated thread ….

SAE Driving Automation Levels Terminology

I think a bunch of discussions had people asking specifically for the full document with SAE's definitions for the different autonomy levels. Previously we only had the summary document to go by: https://www.sae.org/misc/pdfs/automated_driving.pdf In a different discussion @Bladerskb posted a...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[jebinc]

SAE levels are useless. We can continue the conversation in the dedicated thread ….

SAE Driving Automation Levels Terminology

I think a bunch of discussions had people asking specifically for the full document with SAE's definitions for the different autonomy levels. Previously we only had the summary document to go by: https://www.sae.org/misc/pdfs/automated_driving.pdf In a different discussion @Bladerskb posted a...

teslamotorsclub.com

“Get a room,” you two!

 

[nvx1977]

If you use the Lever to disengage Tesla doesn't count/recored as a likely Beta problem like they do for brakes and wheel disengagement. So while a disengagement it is a neutral or conscious decision and probably not related to negative Beta behavior.

Are you certain of that? I've not heard this from anywhere else...

A prominent early beta tester (pre-safety score) mentioned that stalk disgengagement does not trigger automatic data-sends to Tesla, whereas braking and steering wheel disengagements do (sometimes). Hard to know how true this is, given that Tesla has never publicly commented on this, and we also don't know if this applies to a certain time and if things have changed since the original advice was given.

I think currently, the best course of action, if you want to make sure something gets sent to Tesla, is to use the AP snapshot button (the little camera icon at the top center of the main screen (3/Y) or car settings menu (S/X).

Earlier in the beta, I was in the habit of disengaging more when FSD was doing something weird. I still do actively disengage (steering wheel or brake) when FSD might do something unsafe, but for data reporting purposes, if there's no chance of annoying other drivers, I let the car do something funky and then use the AP snapshot button. This is mainly because I've heard that the "car has limited storage for only 5 button presses per drive" info is outdated, and also because Tesla is doing more auto-labeling, which gives me more confidence they can handle the volume of data being sent to them.

 

[JulienW]

A prominent early beta tester (pre-safety score) mentioned that stalk disgengagement does not trigger automatic data-sends to Tesla, whereas braking and steering wheel disengagements do (sometimes). Hard to know how true this is, given that Tesla has never publicly commented on this, and we also don't know if this applies to a certain time and if things have changed since the original advice was given.....

Just to add I think the verbiage the early YouTuberes received (in the infamous NDA) was saying that Forced Disengagements were sent and Forced was defined as Brake or Wheel Disengagements. And of course the Lever was just called a Disengagement and not a trigger event.

 

[Khashoggi]

FSD going up in price to $12K on Jan. 17, 2022

 

[Ramphex]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1479590174828998663

 

[Ramphex]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1479590995595517958

 

[jebinc]

FSD going up in price to $12K on Jan. 17, 2022

That’s funny, really funny!

 

[Daniel in SD]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1479590995595517958

Still a very good price for a robotaxi.

 

[diplomat33]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1479595757388845059

 

[Ramphex]

Still a very good price for a robotaxi.

With FSD Beta 69.0 running HW42.0