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Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by WarpedOne, Jan 18, 2008.

  1. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Supreme Premier

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    #1 WarpedOne, Jan 18, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2008
  2. BlackbirdHighway

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    The guys over at Realclimate weren't too impressed with the OISM or their report:

    RealClimate » Oregon Institute of Science and Malarkey


    Not that it matters. From my experience, people have already made up their minds on this issue, (on both sides), and there is absolutely nothing that will change them.

    So people keep producing studies and reports, and posting them on websites, and getting into big flame wars over them, and in the end it's a big waste of time because everyone ends up with exactly the same opinions that they started with.

    I won't be returning to this thread because, as I said, it's a big waste of time. You're not going to convince me of anything, and I don't expect to convince you of anything.
     
  3. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #3 TEG, Jan 18, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2008
    Just keep in mind that continued burning of fossil fuels is bad for plenty of other reasons... Pollution... Political/economic turmoil over rising prices... etc...

    We need a cleaner energy source that isn't expect to run out.
     
  4. tonybelding

    tonybelding Active Member

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    science = search for the truth

    religion = decree the truth

    politics = decree the truth, then force everyone to follow it -- at gunpoint if necessary

    I prefer science.
     
  5. WarpedOne

    WarpedOne Supreme Premier

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    >> Just keep in mind that continued burning of fossil fuels is bad for plenty of >> other reasons... Pollution... Political/economic turmoil over rising prices... etc...

    >> We need a cleaner fuel source that isn't expect to run out.

    Absolutely, but all this global warming ... ehm ,.. climate change is primarly and almost only about CO2 and doom and gloom that it is supposed to bring.

    It is as much against natural gas as it is against oil but gas polutes faaaaar less then oil. In Europe we'll get CO2 vouchers and taxes. 30.000€ additional tax on sportscars. 2.000€ additional tax on small familly cars. But they are not even really into lowering CO2 emissions. If they were they would encourege carmakers to produce more durable cars (a production of a single car can emit more CO2 than it emits in whole its lifetime on roads).

    Governments and other 'organisations' only smellt a fine oportunity how to get even more money out of our pockets.
     
  6. aeroscott

    aeroscott Member

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    i would like to see the math on that.100,000 miles /20 mpg =5000 gallons x 15 hp/gallon=75000 hp hours ( crankshaft hp) or 135,000 btu/ gallon divided by 3.4(btu to watt hr.)=39705 watts x 5000 gal. =198529411 or 198,529 kw.(thermal no losses)198 mega watts. steel has a specific heat of .13 or close .thats .13 btu to raise 1 pound 1 deg.f. so take 2500 degrees f. to melt steel. 2500 x .13 =325 btu to melt 1 lb of steel.135000 btu x 5000 gal.=675,000,000 btu / 325 btu =2,076,923 lbs of steel with out losses. I've been an environmentalist since 1967, my dad tried to start a ev program in the early 60's.thay taught us all this stuff by high school in bits. I had to relearn it later.BTW check my work as im getting tired.
     
  7. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Hey "aero"... Can you try a bit harder to make more complete sentences? Your comments are so crammed together that I find it hard to read.
     
  8. aeroscott

    aeroscott Member

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    your right , been trying to work on it .that was 2 hours of work.with hunt and peck and my spelling it takes forever to get something down.
     
  9. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    #9 TEG, Jan 19, 2008
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2008
    By the way, I was thinking "yeah, someone can always cook up a 'study' to support the position they want to 'prove'". So, I thought "I bet some would say that oil can never run out", and sure enough it was easy enough to find plenty of people espousing that position:

    Why We'Ll Never Run Out Of Oil | Discover | Find Articles at BNET.com
    "... Back in 1973, some experts were predicting $100-a-barrel oil prices by the year 2000. What happened?..." (it just took a few more years...)

    Why We'll Never Run Out of Oil | Environment | DISCOVER Magazine
    Mankind will never run out of oil - Pravda.Ru
    We will never run out of oil at politburo diktat 2.0
    Peak Oil News: We will never run out of oil

    Republicans & Conservatives:: We can never run out of oil
    "...cheap gas will be upon us by 2008 and people will be feeling pretty good..."



    If we wait for proof about something like global warming to be conclusive it could be too late. We can "burry our heads in the sand", or chose to believe those who like to push "status quo" or we can conclude that we need to be doing things differently. I hope reputable scientists can lead us on this, not politicians representing some short term interests.
     
  10. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    According to this report, walking causes more global warming than driving

    People spout opinions about global warming here.

    I am very dubious of the naysayers in part because history tells us we stick to stupid behaviors and it takes a lot of work to get us to come around. For example look at asbestos, lead paint, lead added to gasoline, rampant cigarette smoking, DDT, etc. You will find groups that say we overreacted to those health hazards, but I believe we were right to start regulating and restricting things like that. The whole concept of CO2 output reduction threatens a lot of industries normal practices, so of course there will be those saying that "do nothing" is the correct course of action.

    I am no expert on any of this. I haven't studied the issue much. However, I have seen and heard enough alarm bells sounding that I want experts to continue looking for ways to present their case. If there isn't enough proof now, then we need to keep gathering data and presenting it. At some point I would hope that the science would prevail over opinionated posturing.
     
  11. aeroscott

    aeroscott Member

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    with the latest 10 x energy content battery, we now have the tools to make the post oil world reality.
     
  12. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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