First trip Up I-95

[Huskerfl]

I made the trip in November between Port Orange, FL and Savannah both without charging. I would not recommend it unless fully charged. Going north it rained most of the way and I planned to stop at the St John SEMA charger in Jacksonville. However when I tried to use the charger with my purchases SEMA card it would not work! On the weekend there was no call assistance so we pressed on and drove 60-65mph at a safe distance behind a truck or large vehicle. We just made it to a Bay Street hotel in Savannah.

On the return the weather was better. From SAV we left fully charged and drove 75mph also at a safe distance behind larger vehicles and made it with about 15mi left of range.

Weather and wind resistance make a lot of difference in how far a rate mile will get you.
At 75mph you will lose 20-30% of your rated miles
When I drove what I considered a safe distance behind a larger vehicle I could get rated range at 60-65 mph.
At 75mph I lost about 10% of rated miles.

I have a P85 w 21" continentals. The car was also pretty full w 2 passengers, dog, 2 sets of golf clubs luggage and various cooking things for thanksgiving. Amazing how much stuff the car holds!

I'm not advocating any particular driving method but just giving you my experience.

 

[swegman]

I drove from Washington DC to Palm Beach FL and back to DC in November. I am not a fast driver, used cruise control, drove slower than the speed limit, no HVAC, etc. I had no large vehicles on the road with me. I could not drive the distances you did without charging. Tesla has checked out my car, done two alignments, and stated the problem is the 21 inch Michelin Pilot tires. Driving to Palm Beach FL, I did range charges at my home, Glen Allen VA, Burlington NC (going to FL), Florence SC, Savannah GA, Jacksonville FL, and Port Orange FL. Driving to DC, I range charged in Palm Beach, Port Orange, Jacksonville, Savannah, Florence, Rocky Mount NC and Glen Allen. I arrived at each leg with not enough charge left to get to the next leg, usually with 30 or less miles of range left, and once only 4 miles of range left.

 

[JohnQ]

Does everyone that has 19 inch tires and says all trips are doable realize that 21 inch tires reduce the car's range by about 30 miles? That is, if two identical cars (but for different size tires) travel the same course at the same speed, temperature, headwind, etc, at the same time, the car with the 19 inch tires will travel about 30 miles further. This is according to Tesla. I love my car, but Tesla never warned me (when I ordered the car years ago) that the 21 inch tires would cause such a distance hit. Had I known that, I would have gone with 19 inch tires. The only warning they gave me was the increased risk of pothole damage with 21 inch tires. This is the only real complaint I have about the car.

Well aware of the range penalty on the 21s; I think (not positive) that I learned about it when I was asked to configure in Aug of 2012 but am certain that it wasn't quantified at that time. Also simply sharing the data from a trip that ended 50 miles shy of the OPs destination. Given my experience, and the fact that I had 90 miles rated after exceeding the speed limit by 5-10 mph in cold (but not frigid) weather leads me to believe that the 190 miles or so from Asheville to Whitley City is possible, without intermediate charging, in the right conditions. This means no significant headwind, no precipitation and temps above 25 F.

Recognize that I have 19s on the car so I don't have direct experience with the range penalty on 21s other than what you and others have posted. I've also driven from my home to the Newark, DE SC in 15 F weather with crosswinds at 22mph gusting to 40mph. It is 185 miles and, after a range charge, I arrived with 12 rated while driving 65 mph. Weather makes a huge difference and I made a go/no-go decision that morning.

I don't doubt your experiences at all, nor the expertise you bring having 21s on your car and doing long drives. Simply providing a different viewpoint based on the same drive the OP is looking to do.

 

[Gwstephens]

My main concern are the mountains. There are two big jumps to get up on the Cumberland Plateau. I have never had the car in any hilly regions. Every time I go up a bridge here I can see it on my energy graph.

 

[JohnQ]

My main concern are the mountains. There are two big jumps to get up on the Cumberland Plateau. I have never had the car in any hilly regions. Every time I go up a bridge here I can see it on my energy graph.

Play with EVTripPlanner if you haven't already (be sure you go into the advanced button to adjust temperature, vehicle and speed settings). It's reasonably accurate and includes elevation changes. While you have to climb at the end, remember that you're mostly downhill from Asheville to Knoxville.

I have to admit, I stressed significantly about my drive from Burlington to Asheville due to the elevation change and slowed way down for the first part of the drive. Only experience removed my anxiety. You can always stop and charge for two hours in the middle of that segment if you need to and provided the time hit isn't too painful.

 

[Gwstephens]

I tried the EVTrip planner, i have a mac so I will have to try it at the office. I like the concept.

 

[Aardvark]

@ SWEGMAN (regarding the loss of 30 miles of range with 21 inch tires)

This is the first I've heard of this. My P85 has the large tires.

I can assure you that I'd never have bought these tires (and perhaps not the car) if this information had been given to me.

The "ownership experience" has offered an undue amount of accidental discovery, such as this.

I'm glad that Ferrari and other high end car companies attend carefully to the ownership experience, before, during and after they sell us cars.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Does everyone that has 19 inch tires and says all trips are doable realize that 21 inch tires reduce the car's range by about 30 miles? That is, if two identical cars (but for different size tires) travel the same course at the same speed, temperature, headwind, etc, at the same time, the car with the 19 inch tires will travel about 30 miles further. This is according to Tesla. I love my car, but Tesla never warned me (when I ordered the car years ago) that the 21 inch tires would cause such a distance hit. Had I known that, I would have gone with 19 inch tires. The only warning they gave me was the increased risk of pothole damage with 21 inch tires. This is the only real complaint I have about the car.

To be clear it is not the size of the tire that is causing in the range penalty. The diameter of the 19" and 21" tires are virtually the same. What is causing the difference in range is the tire compound and perhaps the tire construction/width. The performance tires are going to be softer and "stickier" than the standard all season tires and therefore they will have a higher rolling resistance. There may be differences in range between two different 21" performance tire brands. For instance the 21" Michelin Pilots are wider than the 21" Continentals. I've sent an email to Ownership to see if they can provide some additional information.

Larry

 

[Gwstephens]

Aardvark, you bought a revolutionary new car. Not a minor iteration from the big three. These people built the best car ever from scratch in less than 10 years. I am a bit peeved that Elon Musk did not take my personal needs into account when he deployed the superchargers. but I will struggle along somehow.

It is not to late to trade it in for something more suitable to your lifestyle. We won't think any less of you. (well that's not true)

 

[Larry Chanin]

Does everyone that has 19 inch tires and says all trips are doable realize that 21 inch tires reduce the car's range by about 30 miles? That is, if two identical cars (but for different size tires) travel the same course at the same speed, temperature, headwind, etc, at the same time, the car with the 19 inch tires will travel about 30 miles further. This is according to Tesla. I love my car, but Tesla never warned me (when I ordered the car years ago) that the 21 inch tires would cause such a distance hit. Had I known that, I would have gone with 19 inch tires. The only warning they gave me was the increased risk of pothole damage with 21 inch tires. This is the only real complaint I have about the car.

To be clear it is not the size of the tire that is causing in the range penalty. The diameter of the 19" and 21" tires are virtually the same. What is causing the difference in range is the tire compound and perhaps the tire construction/width. The performance tires are going to be softer and "stickier" than the standard all season tires and therefore they will have a higher rolling resistance. There may be differences in range between two different 21" performance tire brands. For instance the 21" Michelin Pilots are wider than the 21" Continentals. I've sent an email to Ownership to see if they can provide some additional information.

Larry

Well, I received a response from Ownership. I guess the answer depends on who you ask. Here's Jeffrey Chu's response.

Hi Lawrence,

Thank you for your email. My apologies for not being clearer in my previous explanation. There is no significant range penalty when choosing the 21” Continental Extreme Contact tires or 21” Michelin PS2 tires versus the standard 19” Good Year Eagle RS/A2 tires. There may be a slight difference over a full charge due to the weight difference of the wheels and tires. Please note that tire pressure, tire wear and alignment can also affect range, similar to gasoline powered cars.

Please be advised that the Michelin PS2 tires are made of a summer performance compound; while they will provide excellent grip and performance, it is at the cost of a shorter tire life.

Best,

Jeff
Jeffrey Chu | Ownership Experience Advocate

Larry

- - - Updated - - -

By the way, upgrading from the standard 19" Good Year Eagle RS/A2 tires to the 19" Michelin Primacy tires results in a 3% improvement in range.

Larry

 

[swegman]

The Tesla rep that gave me the information based it upon a software program Tesla has for determining projected range of the car based on driving speed, tires, etc. He did one "run" having the Model S equipped with 19 inch tires and then did a "second" run in which the only change made was switching from 19 inch to the 21 inch Michelin tires. The projected range with the 21 inch tires, according to the rep, was approximately 30 miles.

 

[lolachampcar]

Funny.
I just drove from the East to West coast of Florida trailing my wife and her sister by about 45 minutes. They were at 340 WHr/mile and I was 308 when we each made it to the Ft Myers SC. My sister in law was driving my wife's car with 19s while mine has 21s and yet they used 10% more energy (driving roughly the same speeds). I think it will be difficult to fully understand the impact of wheels without using the same driver over the same course under the same conditions.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Funny.
I just drove from the East to West coast of Florida trailing my wife and her sister by about 45 minutes. They were at 340 WHr/mile and I was 308 when we each made it to the Ft Myers SC. My sister in law was driving my wife's car with 19s while mine has 21s and yet they used 10% more energy (driving roughly the same speeds). I think it will be difficult to fully understand the impact of wheels without using the same driver over the same course under the same conditions.

This is a great point -- individual driving habits have a far greater impact on energy use than tires. Most people can't do better than the cruise control, just because of the sensitivity of the accelerator pedal. In hilly areas, though, you can do better than the CC with a steady foot and some foresight.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Apparently the Ownership representative that responded to my question was misinformed about the range penalty of 21" wheels/tires being insignificant. A club member steered me to the Tesla range calculator at http://www.teslamotors.com/goelectric#range.


At 55 mph with no AC there is a range penalty of about 6% in going from 19" to 21" wheels/tires. So in this case the range goes from 306 miles with 19" tires to 288 miles with 21" tires or a loss of 18 miles.

If you play with the range calculator at various speeds you are not going to see a 30 mile penalty at speed between 45 and 70 mph.

At 45 mph you lose 24 miles. At 70 mph you lose 12 miles.

Larry

 

[cinergi]

I get my rated range (290 whpm) if I go 65 MPH in 50F+ weather (heat off). I have the Tesla-provided 21" Conti's.

 

[Cliff Hannel]

Hi,
We've tuned our algorithms at EVTripPlanner to account for altitude and outside temperature more accurately. Do you drive in cold weather or at altitude? Try this new version of the planner (http://evtripplanner.com/planner/carview_beta2/) and let us know if it seems more accurate.
Thanks for supporting EVTripPlanner - we're a family project and are excited that our homegrown tool is now used by thousands of Tesla owners. Check out a map showing where users are planning trips here - click on the dots to drill down and see the neighborhoods where the Teslas are - they're everywhere!.

Happy New Year,
The EVTripPlanner Team

 

[DavidM]

Woot! St. Augustine FL supercharger is now open for business. Now we're waiting on Savannah, and I-95 will be driveable for most Model S. Ha ha, time to book my trip to Charleston and Hilton Head.

 

[Gwstephens]

Sometime this summer we are going to try for Whitley city Ky from Port Saint Lucie Florida. I am planning on heading up 26 from 95 after charging up in Santee South Carolina. The plan is to stay the night in Asheville North Carolina and then try to top up in Knoxville before heading up the Cumberland plateau. I may have to find somewhere to top off in Columbia due to the grade. Living in Florida i have no experience with mountain climbing in this car.

I have a p85 plus with 21" Rims.

Questions.
How many miles of range will I need to make it up to Greenville from Santee.

And from Knoxville to Whitley city (80 miles about half of them straight up)

Also does anyone know of anyone with a highspeed charger in Knoxville?

 

[Cliff Hannel]

The best way to estimate energy use on the route is to use EV Trip Planner - it accounts for hills, temperature, payload, speed and other variables. Others report is quite accurate if you estimate your speed well. Of course, winds are the biggest variable that could increase/decrease energy usage. I tried to put your route into the planner here - EV Trip Planner (I'm sure I didn't get it quite right). You can tweak waypoints and show conventional and super chargers and click the "charge here" button to add it as a waypoint (though you'll have to drag it to the right order in the route). Be sure to look at 'Steps' and 'Details' tables to see energy/rated miles by segment.

 

[JohnQ]

Sometime this summer we are going to try for Whitley city Ky from Port Saint Lucie Florida. I am planning on heading up 26 from 95 after charging up in Santee South Carolina. The plan is to stay the night in Asheville North Carolina and then try to top up in Knoxville before heading up the Cumberland plateau. I may have to find somewhere to top off in Columbia due to the grade. Living in Florida i have no experience with mountain climbing in this car.

I have a p85 plus with 21" Rims.

Questions.
How many miles of range will I need to make it up to Greenville from Santee.

And from Knoxville to Whitley city (80 miles about half of them straight up)

Also does anyone know of anyone with a highspeed charger in Knoxville?

For Asheville, there are two chargers in the College St lot that is next door to the Marriott Renaissance. I've used them four times without a problem on my way to and from K'ville. There's also one at the Hilton in the Biltmore Park area but it's not as convenient for I-40 travel.

During the summer I bet you could make it without a charge given that it's quite a bit downhill out of Asheville. If you hit adverse weather then charge for 2 hours at 30A over a leisurely breakfast at Cracker Barrel and you'll make it up to Whitley City with room to spare. I made it Asheville to Caryville, TN at rated range traveling 70 mph with still wind conditions at 65F.