mnx
2018 M3P
A better performance curve? As in post better lap times? I'll believe it when I see it...
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Gen III - summary
- Thread starter DuncanWatson
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A better performance curve? As in post better lap times? I'll believe it when I see it...
Actually now you called me on it, I'm not so sure about it ...
My reasoning goes something like this: You cannot avoid rather complicated and strong front geometry because of the steering.
Adding a drive shaft does not dramatically change the requirements of front suspension and rear suspension can be really simple and cheap (various torsion beams, H rods etc) and still adequate.
RWD demands 'proper' and hence more expensive rear suspension. Differences are not that big though.
Observe also that in recent decades there was a vast industry move towards FWD cars, only higher market segment stayed with RWD via central driveshaft and some sportscars used motor in the back with RWD.
This might also be connected at least in part with more cargo space if big ICE is in front and price of the front motor RWD configuration.
EV drivetrain is different enough that some of these philosophy might not apply. We'll see.
wallet.dat
Member
Lets try to summarize this logic chain.
- If the Model E follows the design used in the Model S and Model X the engine will be in the rear.
- This implies RWD as the standard as it is cheaper and easier to have RWD with a rear engine.
- FWD may occur only if the engine is moved to the front.
- I believe FWD with a rear engine is highly unlikely.
- AWD is a possible option, likely in my personal opinion.
I'm hoping for RWD for the Model E, but I know that it would only be a matter of time before there would be an article saying that RWD is inherently less safe than FWD.
I'd guess at 75% chance for RWD since it is what they have already done and know very well.
I'd guess at 75% chance for RWD since it is what they have already done and know very well.
TimV
Member
The Model E will be RWD. Make no mistake about it. This car is already known to be a direct competitor to the 3-series and it's ilk. The driving dynamics of a FWD drive car in that segment will be unacceptable. I honestly can't believe we're actually having this discussion.
The only reason many ICE cars are FWD is because the engine is in the front. This allows for a more compact drive train assembly that uses fewer parts and encroaches less upon the passenger and cargo compartments of the car. These advantages quickly disappear with the electric drive train found in the Tesla. The electric motor and gearbox are much smaller than a comparable engine, transmission, radiators, etc. They can be tucked away behind the backseat and under the floor of the trunk.
The only reason many ICE cars are FWD is because the engine is in the front. This allows for a more compact drive train assembly that uses fewer parts and encroaches less upon the passenger and cargo compartments of the car. These advantages quickly disappear with the electric drive train found in the Tesla. The electric motor and gearbox are much smaller than a comparable engine, transmission, radiators, etc. They can be tucked away behind the backseat and under the floor of the trunk.
Parzival
Member
RWD is cheaper than FWD in an EV, period. It's simpler and requires fewer parts. It also has better driving dynamics, and as someone else said, this is meant to be a 3-series competitor. It will be RWD.
FWD is arguably safer than RWD, but with traction control and perfect front/rear weight distribution it's basically a non-issue. Traction control also works much better in an EV than ICE.
FWD is arguably safer than RWD, but with traction control and perfect front/rear weight distribution it's basically a non-issue. Traction control also works much better in an EV than ICE.
Agree base system will be RWD for the reasons already mentioned. I think the real question is will AWD be an option? By then Tesla will have plenty of experience with AWD.
favo
P3D+ owner
I hope they have enough success refining AWD with Model X and (likely) Model S so that it is an option for Model E on day one.
It's possible but I wouldn't expect it. It will definitely happen though just like for the Model S.
Really? Why? They will have countless priorities higher than AWD. It will be a mountain of work just to get a high volume car into production. The added parts and production capacity will only make it harder. Demand will be higher than Tesla's production capacity for quite a while. I don't expect to see AWD until they release a small SUV.
PV4EV
Member
Elon TV interview in the Netherlands, 14 mins long in English, but he talks a bit about Gen3 / Model E, notably about it being 20% smaller than Model S. That makes it 1m shorter than an MS, and probably 20% narrower too making it much better for British roads at least !
I've driven a Roadster all around Devon / Cornwall in the UK where each mirror was brushing the bushes on each side - these roads are simply tooo narrow for a Model S. Same goes for lots of roads in London where 'width restrictors' are used to prevent commercial vehicles from passing - an MS would get wedged good and tight in such places ..
Gemist: RTL Z Nieuws: Interview Elon Musk (Tesla)
I've driven a Roadster all around Devon / Cornwall in the UK where each mirror was brushing the bushes on each side - these roads are simply tooo narrow for a Model S. Same goes for lots of roads in London where 'width restrictors' are used to prevent commercial vehicles from passing - an MS would get wedged good and tight in such places ..
Gemist: RTL Z Nieuws: Interview Elon Musk (Tesla)
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LuckyLuke
Model S P90DL
In Amsterdam or Oslo (cant remember which) Elon compared Model S to Audi A7/A8 and Model E to Audi A4
PV4EV
Member
He mentions the A4 in the video link above. However, a car that is 20% shorter than an MS implies a length slightly shorter than an A3 .. !
Personally I'd really like the Gen3 to be A3 sized, with 85kwh or more, possibly wagon / hatchback option, and possibly AWD
Two great things about Tesla AWD will be that (1) it's mechanically simple (2) Tesla uses induction motors, which improves scalability. So, I think it could depend on whether the design will downsize motors. If they're just using 2 motors identical to the RWD system, and if they'll design for it up front anyway, it could be easy profit.
PV4EV
Member
... I believe it will also be possible to significantly increase the amount of regen energy captured using a motor up front. Although whether the cars battery can store it quickly enough is another matter. Might need ultracapacitors in there somewhere .. !
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