Home charging advice

[Jjrss]

Other option for the "your outlet will wear out!" Panic:

Buy 2 14-50 adapters, leave 1 plugged into your garage outlet and take the Mobile Charger unit with you for a security blanket. The Mobile Charger is rated for swapping the adapters, why else sell a multipack?

Still cheaper, cost effective and redundant parts.

Cheapest - 120V charging 50~60 mile recharge nightly

Cost effective - 240 50A adapter. Full recharge (to recommender 80%) nightly. All charging parts can come with you. RV parks have the 50A standard, your vacation property will have it, heck your parents might even have one. Very common plug for vacationers and RVers.

Costliest - Wall Charger. Fastest recharge, which 99% of the time you'll never need. Can't come with you. You'll miss the faster charging rates when visiting your parents house. Don't get complacent. *IF your electric company has off-peak charging, you *might benefit. You can buy a $160 adaptor for your friends to charge at 40A max (which you can get with 14-50 if they bring their own...)

 

[Midnightsun]

Cheapest - 120V charging 50~60 mile recharge nightly

You must sleep a lot making your nights very long. Average charge speed is variable and really depends on your circuit. 110v vs 120v makes a big difference. Speeds can vary from 2-4 miles per hour but usually I see 3. 12 hrs a night gets you 36 miles on a good day. Equivalent to filling your ice car with an eye dropper. It works but one is rather limited if this is all you have.

 

[Jjrss]

You must sleep a lot making your nights very long. Average charge speed is variable and really depends on your circuit. 110v vs 120v makes a big difference. Speeds can vary from 2-4 miles per hour but usually I see 3. 12 hrs a night gets you 36 miles on a good day. Equivalent to filling your ice car with an eye dropper. It works but one is rather limited if this is all you have.

Prior to upgrading to 14-50, I used 120V. Got 3~5 mph charging on a 2021 MY LR. Never charged above 80%.

60 mile commute at the old house. Got home around 4 PM. Plugged it in, charged until I left for work around 6 AM. ~14 Hours charging = 42~70 miles. In the month leading up to getting the 14-50, I only needed to supercharge once.

40 mile commute is the maximum sweet spot for 120V if you are outside the range of a super charger (I did have one available mid commute, hence no rush to choose a proper charging solution)

 

[Daekwan]

120V charging is also more expensive in the long run. Because of efficiency. Many of us have the same story here.. meaning we started with the cheapest charging option first and then upgraded later. When I first got my Tesla I charged for the first 3 months or so almost exclusively using 120V charging and swore that was good enough. For the next 3 months, I noticed I was driving significantly more.. purchased the 14-30 adapter for the mobile connector and used the 30A outlet from our dryer for faster charging. Eventually the whole unplug-the-dryer.. plugin-the-mobile-connector.. unplug-the-mobile-connector-because-im-going-on-a-long-trip-and-it-should-remain-in-the-car-for-emergency-purposes routine started to get real old.. so since about August, I've used the HPWC and as you can tell, I highly recommend it. It is the fastest & most convenient option while allowing the mobile charger to remain in the vehicle for emergency situations.

While 120V works fine and added about 5miles of range/per hour.. it was also only about 81% efficient. Using the HPWC is about 97% efficient. You can track exactly how efficient your charging method is with 3rd party Tesla stat tracking apps like TeslaFi and Teslamate. The higher the current, not only the faster the EV charges BUT the more efficient that charging becomes. This means 120V charging costs about 20% more per kWh than 240V charging. No charging method is absolute 100% efficient.. this includes DC to DC fast charging and even V3 250kW Superchargers.. as some energy is always lost in the transfer process.

Alex on Autos was the first person I see to point this out. He said that for the typical EV driver 120V will cost about $200 more per year than 240V charging. So while it may seem like the cheapest option upfront.. the reality is for the average driver the HPWC will pay for itself in efficiency savings over the basic 120V outlet in less than 3 years.

 

[pbcsd]

If you use the Tesla Gen2 Mobile Connector with the NEMA 14-50 plug adapter the charging amperage defaults to 32A. You can manually lower this setting using the Tesla charging settings if you want but the 32A is the most efficient setting.

You don't want to regularly plug and unplug the NEMA 14-50 power plug from the receptacle as the connection will not remain tight over repeated plug and unplug operations. If you go this route plug in and leave it.

You will want to get a cable organizer that includes a wall mount bracket for the Mobile Connector chassis (the electronics unit.) Don't let the Mobile Connector chassis hang supported by only the power plug. Tesla sells a Cable Organizer, you can find similar kits on Amazon.

Cable Organizer

A better solution might be to ditch the NEMA 14-50 receptacle and install the Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector for the following reasons.

1) Longer 24 ft charging cord (the charging cord on the Gen2 Mobile Connector is 18.5 ft long)
2) Ability to support load balancing (up to 4 Gen3 Wall Connector units can be installed on a single circuit)
3) No need to use a GFCI circuit breaker as the Gen3 Wall Connector is hard wired into the circuit (this will save you $100)
4) Only need 2 wires plus ground wire instead of 3 wires plus ground wire. The neutral wire is not needed with the Gen3 Wall Connector
5) Fully weather rated for use in all weather conditions, can be installed inside a garage or outside.
6) If you install the Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector then you can use the Mobile Connector kit that comes with the Tesla vehicle strictly for travel and not need to purchase a second Mobile Connector kit. (The most useful charging accessory for charging away from home is the Tesla SAE J1772 adapter.)

The Tesla Corded Mobile Connector has been Out of Stock for more than a year.

To add a second Gen 3 connector, does one simply daisy chain it to the first to be able to run it off the same circuit? If the second car is not a Tesla (and therefore using a J1772 adapter), will it still load balance properly?

 

[jcanoe]

To add a second Gen 3 connector, does one simply daisy chain it to the first to be able to run it off the same circuit? If the second car is not a Tesla (and therefore using a J1772 adapter), will it still load balance properly?

My understanding is that to use the load balancing capability of the Gen3 Wall Connector (up to 4 Gen3 Wall Connectors) each Wall Connector needs to be protected by a circuit breaker. In practice this would be accomplished using a sub panel, i.e. 100A sub panel. Each Wall Connector could be on its own 60A circuit breaker. When one Wall Connector is in use the Tesla vehicle can charge at up to 48A. When two Wall Connectors are in use at the same time they would be limited to 40A X 2 which is 80A and at the maximum allowed for a 100A circuit. You can also set the maximum charging amperage for each Wall Connector so that one will always charge at a higher rate, i.e. 48A and 32A, for a total of 80A.

The automatic load balancing requires that each of the Wall Connectors is able to access your home Wi-Fi network. Gen2 Wall Connectors can load balance only with other Gen2 Wall Connectors using a dedicated low voltage signaling cable. You can't use the load balancing capability of the Gen3 Wall Connector with a non-Tesla charging station. ClipperCreek offers several configurations of Level 2 EVSE that support load balancing (using a low voltage signal cable between units.)

 

[pbcsd]

My understanding is that to use the load balancing capability of the Gen3 Wall Connector (up to 4 Gen3 Wall Connectors) each Wall Connector needs to be protected by a circuit breaker. In practice this would be accomplished using a sub panel, i.e. 100A sub panel. Each Wall Connector could be on its own 60A circuit breaker. When one Wall Connector is in use the Tesla vehicle can charge at up to 48A. When two Wall Connectors are in use at the same time they would be limited to 40A X 2 which is 80A and at the maximum allowed for a 100A circuit. You can also set the maximum charging amperage for each Wall Connector so that one will always charge at a higher rate, i.e. 48A and 32A, for a total of 80A.

The automatic load balancing requires that each of the Wall Connectors is able to access your home Wi-Fi network. Gen2 Wall Connectors can load balance only with other Gen2 Wall Connectors using a dedicated low voltage signaling cable. You can't use the load balancing capability of the Gen3 Wall Connector with a non-Tesla charging station. ClipperCreek offers several configurations of Level 2 EVSE that support load balancing (using a low voltage signal cable between units.)

Thanks, you mention a non-Tesla charging station. But what if I have a 100a panel (which is my plan) in the garage. Then have 2 Gen3's connected, one 60a breaker on the panel for my Tesla, then possibly either another 60a or 50a or 40a breaker for the non-Tesla vehicle, eg., say an Audi Q4. Will the two Wall chargers still load balance even though one of the vehicles is not a Tesla?

 

[Midnightsun]

I believe the max is a total of 48a when load balancing Wall connectors. 2 cars and each will get 24a. 4 cars 12A. The 60a breaker is for protection of the wiring when charging any single car on any of the chargers at the full 48a capacity. Talking between different charger types/manufacturers is not going to happen when it comes to load balancing. If there are 2 Tesla wall connectors and an adapter for let's say the Audi then maybe however the way the car will talk to the charger with the Audi would probably fail as the protocol will be different.

A 100 Amp panels and 2 60 amp breakers to a Tesla wall connector and a non tesla wall connector should work fine and would be a better solution as opposed to load sharing assuming the Tesla max draw is 48a and the Audi 32a

 

[jcanoe]

Thanks, you mention a non-Tesla charging station. But what if I have a 100a panel (which is my plan) in the garage. Then have 2 Gen3's connected, one 60a breaker on the panel for my Tesla, then possibly either another 60a or 50a or 40a breaker for the non-Tesla vehicle, eg., say an Audi Q4. Will the two Wall chargers still load balance even though one of the vehicles is not a Tesla?

No, as far as I am aware there is no way for the Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector load balancing (accomplished using your home Wi-Fi network) to work with a non-Tesla EVSE or even a Gen2 Wall Connector (supports load balancing done through a low voltage signal cable and does not support Wi-Fi.) You may want to have the Wall Connector on a 60A breaker so it will charge at the maximum 48A and the non-Tesla EVSE for the Audi on a 40A breaker where it can charge at up to 32A. The combined charging rate supported by the Tesla and non-Tesla charging equipment would be 80A, this would be at the vehicle charging limit on a 100A sub panel.

 

[Daekwan]

Thanks, you mention a non-Tesla charging station. But what if I have a 100a panel (which is my plan) in the garage. Then have 2 Gen3's connected, one 60a breaker on the panel for my Tesla, then possibly either another 60a or 50a or 40a breaker for the non-Tesla vehicle, eg., say an Audi Q4. Will the two Wall chargers still load balance even though one of the vehicles is not a Tesla?

So I was in this exact same scenario. Because my main 200A panel is on the opposite side of the house from my garage, it required a 66' run of wire to install a new 240V circuit in the garage for EV charging. I looked into doing this myself and it would be almost $1000 alone for the single run of 4gauge or dual run of 6guage copper wire. Talked to a few electricians about it and one suggested instead of running that much copper... I should run a much cheaper aluminum service wire (SER1/0) and install a new 100A subpanel in the garage. Off that new 100A subpanel, I could then add whatever new EV charging circuits I desired. After brainstorming, this was the most future-proof plan. Even covers me if I decide to get a Cybertruck or Rivian truck next year which is too big to fit inside the garage and will need to charge outside the garage.. I could easily add a 3rd 240V circuit for the truck in the driveway.

So went ahead and paid that electrician to install the 100A subpanel, Gen3 HPWC on my side of the interior garage and a basic 14-50 on the other side of the interior garage. My wife was still driving her ICE 3row SUV, but thinking about going EV. Sure enough about a month ago wife bought the ID.4, she really wanted the Audi Q4.. but the $7,500 tax credit on the 2021 tax year was more important. So just last week I picked up the ChargePoint Home Flex connector because it really is very flexible (comes with 14-50R or 6-50R plug.. but can also be hardwired up to 80A breaker). Now I can charge my Tesla at rates up to 48A.. and her ID.4 at rates up to 40A (48A if hardwired). The CPHF also qualifies for the IRS tax credit because it was purchased & installed before 12/31/21.

We looked at using a second 3rd Gen HPWC and possible load balancing.. also looked at the Gen2 Wall Connector with a permanent J1772 connector and decided against both. The CPHF was easier to immediately install, can charge faster than the Tesla HPWC's, does not require any adapters to charge her J1772, is one of the smart chargers that qualify for the $300 rebate & off-peak cheaper charging rates from our energy provider Pepco. And since the CPHF is a real smart charger and connected to WiFi.. I can monitor/control/schedule charging or even change the amperage using the app or website. We are still figuring out the ID.4, so not really sure if the car has scheduled charging or amperage control.

 

[pbcsd]

So I was in this exact same scenario. Because my main 200A panel is on the opposite side of the house from my garage, it required a 66' run of wire to install a new 240V circuit in the garage for EV charging. I looked into doing this myself and it would be almost $1000 alone for the single run of 4gauge or dual run of 6guage copper wire. Talked to a few electricians about it and one suggested instead of running that much copper... I should run a much cheaper aluminum service wire (SER1/0) and install a new 100A subpanel in the garage. Off that new 100A subpanel, I could then add whatever new EV charging circuits I desired. After brainstorming, this was the most future-proof plan. Even covers me if I decide to get a Cybertruck or Rivian truck next year which is too big to fit inside the garage and will need to charge outside the garage.. I could easily add a 3rd 240V circuit for the truck in the driveway.

So went ahead and paid that electrician to install the 100A subpanel, Gen3 HPWC on my side of the interior garage and a basic 14-50 on the other side of the interior garage. My wife was still driving her ICE 3row SUV, but thinking about going EV. Sure enough about a month ago wife bought the ID.4, she really wanted the Audi Q4.. but the $7,500 tax credit on the 2021 tax year was more important. So just last week I picked up the ChargePoint Home Flex connector because it really is very flexible (comes with 14-50R or 6-50R plug.. but can also be hardwired up to 80A breaker). Now I can charge my Tesla at rates up to 48A.. and her ID.4 at rates up to 40A (48A if hardwired). The CPHF also qualifies for the IRS tax credit because it was purchased & installed before 12/31/21.

We looked at using a second 3rd Gen HPWC and possible load balancing.. also looked at the Gen2 Wall Connector with a permanent J1772 connector and decided against both. The CPHF was easier to immediately install, can charge faster than the Tesla HPWC's, does not require any adapters to charge her J1772, is one of the smart chargers that qualify for the $300 rebate & off-peak cheaper charging rates from our energy provider Pepco. And since the CPHF is a real smart charger and connected to WiFi.. I can monitor/control/schedule charging or even change the amperage using the app or website. We are still figuring out the ID.4, so not really sure if the car has scheduled charging or amperage control.

The CPHF is double the cost of the Gen 3 Tesla, at least here in Canada. Does the Gen 3 Tesla not have the ability to schedule it via app as to when it charges the cars? Eg set one to charge between certain hours and the other at different hours or does that have to be done in the car only?

The only other option, not available in Canada yet, is the Grizzl-e Duo but I don't think it will be out anytime soon since they've been saying it will be for months on end..

 

[Jjrss]

No, as far as I am aware there is no way for the Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector load balancing (accomplished using your home Wi-Fi network) to work with a non-Tesla EVSE or even a Gen2 Wall Connector (supports load balancing done through a low voltage signal cable and does not support Wi-Fi.) You may want to have the Wall Connector on a 60A breaker so it will charge at the maximum 48A and the non-Tesla EVSE for the Audi on a 40A breaker where it can charge at up to 32A. The combined charging rate supported by the Tesla and non-Tesla charging equipment would be 80A, this would be at the vehicle charging limit on a 100A sub panel.

Keep in mind, in most instances you can go 2x the amperage of a panel (service and or sub). You could have up to 42 circuits on a 100A sub panel and those curcuits can add up to 200A regardless of what you have on the main service panel.

You just need to keep the load balanced and try not to exceed 80% of the 100A at any given time. If you do, you just need to reset the breakers whose soul purpose is to protect the wiring between the panels and outlets.

 

[jcanoe]

When calculating the load when using Tesla load balancing wouldn't you have to count the EV charging circuits as being full time (when charging.) With a 100A sub panel and two Gen3 Wall Connectors each on separate 60A circuits nothing else could be on the 100 sub panel. If the sub panel was rated for 125A then you could add an additional 120V 15A or 20A circuit for lighting, etc. in the garage..

 

[Jjrss]

When calculating the load when using Tesla load balancing wouldn't you have to count the EV charging circuits as being full time (when charging.) With a 100A sub panel and two Gen3 Wall Connectors each on separate 60A circuits nothing else could be on the 100 sub panel. If the sub panel was rated for 125A then you could add an additional 120V 15A or 20A circuit for lighting, etc. in the garage..

Only if you plan to charge them full time, which you won't. If you want flexibility of multiple charging options, load the panel with as many connections as the panel itself can handle, and be cognizant of the limits when actually charging. You could daisy chain multiple wall connectors on the same branch, or 2 branches of multiples.

Just avoid exceeding 100A, just as you avoid exceeding 200A on a 200A main with the service panel loaded with 400~600A in breakers.

If you ever do need over 100A continuously charging, look at upgrading to 2 100A sub panels.

 

[jcanoe]

I don't believe you can daisy chain the Wall Connectors on the same branch anymore that way you could previously. The latest NEC requires a dedicated circuit for each unit of EV charging equipment.

 

[Midnightsun]

I don't believe you can daisy chain the Wall Connectors on the same branch anymore that way you could previously. The latest NEC requires a dedicated circuit for each unit of EV charging equipment.

This is correct, no daisy chaining. 60a breaker for each wall connector.

 

[Jjrss]

Then more reason to have multiple 60A on the 100A panel

 

[Daekwan]

Keep in mind, in most instances you can go 2x the amperage of a panel (service and or sub). You could have up to 42 circuits on a 100A sub panel and those curcuits can add up to 200A regardless of what you have on the main service panel.

You just need to keep the load balanced and try not to exceed 80% of the 100A at any given time. If you do, you just need to reset the breakers whose soul purpose is to protect the wiring between the panels and outlets.

Yep, that sounds exactly right. The electrician told me I could run 4 chargers if I wanted. But the 80% rule is what's most important to pay attention to, especially if you have two EV charging at the exact same time. So far we've been alternating nights, that said we still aren't driving as much as normal due to the holidays, COVID, working from home, etc. My plan is to eventually stagger charging time using scheduled charging.. so her car charges from 8pm to 2am.. my car charges from 2am to 8am. Since I do morning drop off with the kids, I'd love to have my battery preconditioned from charging in the cold.

 

[Daekwan]

The CPHF is double the cost of the Gen 3 Tesla, at least here in Canada. Does the Gen 3 Tesla not have the ability to schedule it via app as to when it charges the cars? Eg set one to charge between certain hours and the other at different hours or does that have to be done in the car only?

The only other option, not available in Canada yet, is the Grizzl-e Duo but I don't think it will be out anytime soon since they've been saying it will be for months on end..

The price of the CPHF is $699 in the US and the HPWC is $499. So it's only about $200 more. From what I'm aware the Gen 3 HPWC is what I would call a 'dumb' smart charger. Smart means it's connected to WiFi and does advanced monitoring/control/scheduling. 'Dumb' means none of that is available directly from the app or web portal. Its almost as if Tesla purposely hides a bunch of information from the customer, especially after locating this particular thread on how to find hidden stats: Gen3 Wall Connector API?

I honestly can't answer if the HPWC does scheduling when it charges non-Tesla vehicles. I can answer with 100% the CPHF does all that and more. You can also track charging stats through the website & app. I looked into the Grizzi and Clipper Creek chargers as they are highly rated. But they do not qualify for the $300 rebate from my Power company. Only the CPHF, HPWC or the JuiceBox. It also helped most review sites think the CPHF was the best home charger due to the extra features & flexibility.

How to Choose the Best Home Wall Charger for Your Electric Vehicle - Consumer Reports

In this review of the best home wall chargers for EVs, Consumer Reports evaluated models from Blink, Chargepoint, ClipperCreek, Evo, JuiceBox, Siemens, and Tesla.

www.consumerreports.org

 

[jcanoe]

The price of the CPHF is $699 in the US and the HPWC is $499. So it's only about $200 more. From what I'm aware the Gen 3 HPWC is what I would call a 'dumb' smart charger. Smart means it's connected to WiFi and does advanced monitoring/control/scheduling. 'Dumb' means none of that is available directly from the app or web portal. Its almost as if Tesla purposely hides a bunch of information from the customer, especially after locating this particular thread on how to find hidden stats: Gen3 Wall Connector API?

I honestly can't answer if the HPWC does scheduling when it charges non-Tesla vehicles. I can answer with 100% the CPHF does all that and more. You can also track charging stats through the website & app. I looked into the Grizzi and Clipper Creek chargers as they are highly rated. But they do not qualify for the $300 rebate from my Power company. Only the CPHF, HPWC or the JuiceBox. It also helped most review sites think the CPHF was the best home charger due to the extra features & flexibility.

How to Choose the Best Home Wall Charger for Your Electric Vehicle - Consumer Reports

In this review of the best home wall chargers for EVs, Consumer Reports evaluated models from Blink, Chargepoint, ClipperCreek, Evo, JuiceBox, Siemens, and Tesla.

www.consumerreports.org

The price of the Gen3 Wall Connector, what you term HPWC, is now $550 US.