How come Tesla cannot beat Hyundai's MPGe?

[Reeler]

Tesla just upgraded the motors on the luxury end of the line-up to match the Model 3's efficient motors, but still Hyundai can beat Tesla with a compliance car no less? Seriously, with a ground-up design what is wrong with Tesla. They are getting close, but should be lapping the field. Tesla has better wind resistance numbers as you would expect in such a slippery design. WTF?

Tesla Model 3 Standard Plus Almost As Efficient As Hyundai IONIQ Electric

 

[AltLogic]

More range requires bigger batteries. Bigger batteries require more weight. More weight means lower efficiency. I’m sure if Tesla made a vehicle with the same range and as small as the Hyundai the Tesla would be more efficient.

 

[TonyT]

2 is a very small difference, less than 2%, Just by chaining wheels/tires can cause a 10% difference in efficiency. There is also a big weight difference as total range is double. I would expect the 3 to be a lot more efficient if you get rid of 1/2 the battery pack.

 

[MP3Mike]

You are also missing that the Model 3 SR+ is more efficient on the highway where it counts most. (128 MPGe vs. 122 MPGe)

 

[Reeler]

There is a certain logic to that, but go to https://www.fueleconomy.gov and compare the Model 3 with the Hyundai Kona having basically the same range. The Kona is a pure compliance car built on an ICE platform that has been out for several years--a typical incumbent brand kludge. The Tesla barely beats it. Really, the 4th iteration Tesla with the fancy new motors is almost beat by a compliance Hyundai.

I say shenanigans to your argument. Tesla will soon be crushed by a ground-up Hyundai if they are almost beat by a compliance version. At least in a MPGe sense.

 

[MP3Mike]

The Kona is a pure compliance car built on an ICE platform that has been out for several years

It may be based on an ICE platform but they spent a lot of effort to get that efficiency out of it. (A recent Bjorn video mentioned that he talked to them about how much work they put into getting it to the point it is.)

Is it a compliance car? Yes. Did they just phone it in like GM and the others? No.

 

[Reeler]

GM did a ground-up design on the Bolt after an iteration of the Volt, but did make compromises on their LG collaboration.

That said, the Kona has far more room, clearance, higher drag coefficient (.29 vs .23), etc. Really, this is kinda an ass whooping if you think about it.

The Audi and Jag are embarrassingly bad in the other direction with their horrible range despite large batteries. Really, Hyundai has something I cannot figure out.

 

[Paddy3101]

There is a certain logic to that, but go to https://www.fueleconomy.gov and compare the Model 3 with the Hyundai Kona having basically the same range. The Kona is a pure compliance car built on an ICE platform that has been out for several years--a typical incumbent brand kludge. The Tesla barely beats it. Really, the 4th iteration Tesla with the fancy new motors is almost beat by a compliance Hyundai.

I say shenanigans to your argument. Tesla will soon be crushed by a ground-up Hyundai if they are almost beat by a compliance version. At least in a MPGe sense.

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And if you compare the M3 long-range (current model) then the MPGe is significantly better, as well as significantly better range.

 

[Reeler]

And if you compare the M3 long-range (current model) then the MPGe is significantly better, as well as significantly better range.

Tesla no longer offers the long range RWD, but it does barely beat the ICONIC. Their long range AWD does not. In any event, not apples to apples. For similar range, the Hyundai Kona provides a CuteUTE form factor compliance car virtually on par with the Model 3 sedan. Maybe a better comparison for the Kona would be a two wheel drive Model Y.

 

[Glamisduner]

Tesla no longer offers the long range RWD, but it does barely beat the ICONIC. Their long range AWD does not. In any event, not apples to apples. For similar range, the Hyundai Kona provides a CuteUTE form factor compliance car virtually on par with the Model 3 sedan. Maybe a better comparison for the Kona would be a two wheel drive Model Y.

Konas are pretty small when I saw them are you sure?

 

[OCR1]

The Hyundai Ioniq goes from 0-60 in 8.1 seconds. My Model 3 LR RWD does it in 5 seconds and has virtually the same MPGe as the Ioniq. Are we really comparing apples to apples?

If I drive my Model 3 like a little old lady I can get far greater efficiency than the EPA estimates. I'm not sure what point the OP is trying to make here.

 

[Reeler]

Kona looks like a good EV, but I don't think they "beat" or nearly beat tesla. There's more to it than just efficiency. Take a look at battery pack design and you will see the tesla design is clearly better, but also likely weighs more. Do you want 7mpge or a battery pack that will last longer and and run cooler? The battery is also smaller which means less weight. So the tesla has a bigger heavier, better battery and still beats the kona which is supposed to be a remarkably good ev. Don't forget the Model 3 SR+ is almost MUCH faster than the kona.

Also for the cost, and capabilities of the car I think the SR+ is a clear winner.

I dare not ask on this forum what folks prefer overall. It is just the narrow point that Tesla is chest thumping this week about efficiency with their new range on the S/X, but it seems Hyundai is fierce competition on that front alone.

 

[Paddy3101]

Tesla no longer offers the long range RWD, but it does barely beat the ICONIC. Their long range AWD does not. In any event, not apples to apples. For similar range, the Hyundai Kona provides a CuteUTE form factor compliance car virtually on par with the Model 3 sedan. Maybe a better comparison for the Kona would be a two wheel drive Model Y.

It no longer supplies the Mid-Range either, but that didn't stop you quoting it!

 

[Reeler]

The Hyundai Ioniq goes from 0-60 in 8.1 seconds. My Model 3 LR RWD does it in 5 seconds and has virtually the same MPGe as the Ioniq. Are we really comparing apples to apples?

If I drive my Model 3 like a little old lady I can get far greater efficiency than the EPA estimates. I'm not sure what point the OP is trying to make here.

The EPA testing doesn't do jackrabbit starts (like me) is my understanding. I suspect the average Tesla driver gets far far less MPGe in the real world.

 

[Reeler]

It no longer supplies the Mid-Range either, but that didn't stop you quoting it!

The official government site doesn't list other Tesla models. Not fair to compare the Kona to a Model S or X

 

[OCR1]

The EPA testing doesn't do jackrabbit starts (like me) is my understanding. I suspect the average Tesla driver gets far far less MPGe in the real world.

OK, but that wasn't really my point. I could argue that a Toyota Prius is far more efficient than a BMW M3. But who cares? We are comparing a sports car to a fuel sipping hybrid that has horrible acceleration as a trade off for better fuel economy. Find me a car that goes from 0-60 in less than six seconds that compares favorably in efficiency to a Tesla Model 3...at the same price point...or even at any price point.

 

[Glamisduner]

The EPA testing doesn't do jackrabbit starts (like me) is my understanding. I suspect the average Tesla driver gets far far less MPGe in the real world.

Sure, you get less than EPA, but that goes for most cars. Might be especially true when you stomp it in a tesla, but at least you can stomp it.

 

[Evoforce]

Kona = vaporware for most of us anyway. Question, if you resell Kona, does the battery warranty transfer to the new owner?

 

[Kilotango74]

I think it's an interesting, but not straight comparison. What is the battery size for the Kona? Is that the largest battery that they offer? And more importantly for me its a Hyundai. I saw this video comparing the efficency Model 3 AWD vs the new Leaf. Both were charged until the miles remaining were the same and then driven up a Colorado mountain.

 

[Glamisduner]

Tesla Model 3, Nissan LEAF e+, Kona EV, or e-Niro: Video Buying Guide
Hyundai Kona Electric A Better Deal Than A Tesla?

I was trying to get my wife to wait for a kona since she wanted an SUV, but the X is / was too expensive.