Hyperloop

[Norbert]

Revealed: Elon Musk Explains the Hyperloop, the Solar-Powered High-Speed Future of Inter-City Transportation - Businessweek

Now Musk argues that the Hyperloop represents a type of middle ground that other people have yet to consider. Instead of being a complete vacuum or running at normal conditions, the Hyperloop tubes would be under low pressure. “I think a lot of people tended to gravitate to one idea or the other as opposed to thinking about lower pressure,” Musk says. “I have never seen that idea anywhere.”

Well, while of course inspired by Elon , I did consider "low pressure" at the beginning of this thread: (though of course wrong about the high pressure behind the vehicle)

This Hyperloop thing kept me thinking. I don't know if this is a good idea, but at least it's an idea. Somewhat based on Elon's description of high altitude jets / fans operating at low air pressure:

So not a vacuum tunnel, but a somewhat air-tight tunnel for the pods (or ideally plexiglas tube above ground or below water in the Pacific, or whatever). One for each direction of course. And two air pipes along them, one with high air pressure, one with low pressure / vacuum, and every 100 ft or so, remotely controlled valves that connect the pipes with the tunnel. Then, when a pod is traveling in the tunnel, the valves for the low-pressure/vacuum pipe open ahead of the pod, and the high pressure valves open behind the pod. So the pod itself has no motor or anything, but is driven by the high pressure behind it, and the low pressure in front of it (which also decreases the aerodynamic resistance). Probably won't work because it's too inefficient (or impossible) to create a large enough pressure difference in the tunnel, but maybe it was an entertaining thought...

Or is that actually how the office pressure communication works...?

And I did anticipate the air cushion: (I think only based on Elon's hint that it has things in common with a concord )

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If the railgun were used like a catapult to make the hyperloop-vehicle fly from SF to LA, then it would really be difficult to see how it couldn't crash.

So, I'm wondering whether it would fly over ground with an air cushion (and no or only very small wings), and the two electric wires would go all the way from SF to LA (as for electric buses), yet not carry the weight of the vehicle (only perhaps be a guidance for the steering mechanism).

 

[DaveT]

Bless CNN.

This piece suggests that Elon said on the call that he'd probably build the prototype, unless someone beats him to it.

That's just awesome.

from the CNN article: I've sort of come around a little bit on my thinking here that maybe I should do the beginning bit and build a subscale version that's operating." Musk said ironing out full details on a potential demonstration Hyperloop is a "tricky" process. But nonetheless, the Tesla and SpaceX CEO said he would "probably end up doing that." The busy executive warned that it wouldn't be an immediate priority, ranked behind his ongoing commitments. "I would like to see it come to fruition."

 

[deonb]

That's just awesome.

Apparently for Elon, "not his top priority" mean half his time

"If it was my top priority, I could probably get it done in one or two years," he said, suggesting somewhere between three and four years to be a more realistic timeframe.

 

[Norbert]

If Elon does talk about building a prototype (unless someone else does it first), I think that basically means it is going to happen. The whole thing.

 

[Lump]

Small part of conference call Elon Musk Unveils Designs for Hyperloop: Video - Bloomberg

 

[lorih]

Maybe their 'small version' would only be for SpaceX and Tesla employees and run between SpaceX LA, Tesla Design Studio in LA, Space X launch site in Texas, Palo Alto Tesla headquarters, and Fremont Tesla Factory.
:wink:

And, yes, I AM joking...

 

[kevin99]

And after all these impressions, nobody is buying any TSLA? Well if you see hundreds of translation flash by in the last 5 minutes, it is me.

 

[MilosK]

The English definition of élan is derived from the French, but no longer consistent with it. Elan refers to a spirit or mood, as in doing something with élan or showing élan. And it's neither a verb nor action-oriented itself; and it's a two-syllable word with a long "e" at the beginning, so it's phonetically less convenient. "Loop" is a one-syllable, quick, convenient verb that also directly describes what's going on, it's part of the name already given to the technology, and it's more intuitive.

I like your creativity, I just don't agree with your perception in this case.

Yes, I know that (I grew up doing crossword puzzles for decades – English cryptic-type ones). Actually with Elon's élan, I was going for a nickname for the pod not mode of travel, as in going for a sleigh ride on Elon's élan (sort of a cross between a sleigh and sedan). Oh well, I was just trying to amuse myself on a drive N on 101

 

[Rodolfo Paiz]

Too bad the Hyperloop couldn't just be dropped into the Pacific and run from SF to LA suspended underwater...

Think of the expensive rights-of-way land issues you could avoid...

I think the land issues are less weighty than the safety risks of being underwater. Think leaks and flooded tubes, risk of drowning, or risk of a large cetacean bumping into the tube.

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And after all these impressions, nobody is buying any TSLA? Well if you see hundreds of translation flash by in the last 5 minutes, it is me.

I don't see how this would materially affect the financial and market success of Tesla Motors within the next 3-4 years, so no... I'm not modifying my investment thesis for TSLA based on this.

 

[SteveG3]

I think the land issues are less weighty than the safety risks of being underwater. Think leaks and flooded tubes, risk of drowning, or risk of a large cetacean bumping into the tube.

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I don't see how this would materially affect the financial and market success of Tesla Motors within the next 3-4 years, so no... I'm not modifying my investment thesis for TSLA based on this.

Rodolfo, I see your point and Kevin's. I'm not rushing to add shares, but I think this is the sort of day that will get people past comparing Elon to Steve Jobs or Henry Ford, and appreciate his gifts for what they are (which impacts how Tesla is perceived).

 

[kevin99]

I think the land issues are less weighty than the safety risks of being underwater. Think leaks and flooded tubes, risk of drowning, or risk of a large cetacean bumping into the tube.

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I don't see how this would materially affect the financial and market success of Tesla Motors within the next 3-4 years, so no... I'm not modifying my investment thesis for TSLA based on this.

Well a big part of the investment thesis on TSLA is we invest on Elon Musk.

He just shows something in him I didn't realize before.

 

[brianstorms]

(Responding to Rodolfo) Sure but I think the land risks are more plentiful than the 57-page document lets on. (Don't get me wrong, the Hyperloop is tremendously exciting and inspiring.)

For instance: tiny tunnels may be cheaper to bore through mountains than conventional vehicle tunnels, but what about rescue? What about fire? Quakes?

The notion of the "median of I-5" is interesting. For anyone here who grew up in the DC area, one thing I thought about for years and years was the median strip of the Dulles Access Road, a toll freeway that stretched from the Beltway in Northern Virginia all the way out to Dulles Airport, which, when built, was way, way, way out in the boonies, so far out people hated having to arrive or depart from Dulles because of the long subsequent drive.

Then it became clear that the median strip of the Dulles Access Road could be used by rail, like a Metro or something. And for years in the 1980s I would drive to work (in Reston) along the Dulles Access Road and think about a Metro rail going all the way to the airport.

Amazingly enough, it's going to happen. See http://www.dullesmetro.com/

Question is, is a Hyperloop running along the median of I-5 realistic? The distance is incredible, but you've got what, a hundred highway overpasses to deal with, and a hundred other issues no doubt. One being safety: what about the freak accidents, like the ones that happen in fog on I-5 every 5-10 years it seems, where there's a 100-car pileup because of zero visibility? What if a tanker truck blows, or someone speeding along the fast lane at 90mph loses control and flips into the air, hitting and denting or even puncturing the tube? Something would happen. As they said in Jurassic Park, nature finds a way.

 

[zrbite]

http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/12/news/economy/hyperloop-elon-musk/index.html

"Musk, a co-founder of PayPal and the man behind commercial space transport firm Space-X and electric car maker Tesla, said up to 1,000 employees from both Tesla and Space X worked to come up with the idea, which is basically an elevated tube which moves travel pods at nearly the speed of sound."​

Wow, mind-blowing if true.

This article http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-08-12/hyperloop-physics-101-with-elon-musk#p2 says he had help from about a dozen spacex+tesla employees

 

[tom t]

How about above all the existing train rails. Where do you want to go?

 

[stevezzzz]

Only took an hour, but a NYT columnist on Twitter called it "Vaporware"

Jeez, it's not like an alpha design white paper is a product release. Of course it's vaporware. Holding up a tautology as if it's a negative is just so...well, rhetorically underhanded.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

When the article mentions subscale version, I figured that was encouraging people to build a model. My thought was then "this year's hot new toy" and finally "merchandise".

What's great about this is that journalist negative nellies are going to have to be very careful how they criticize because they won't have a clue. I don't have a clue myself. It reads nicely, we need to wait for the physicists and engineers to criticize it.

And to keep everybody happy, he's pointing out a way to save the government $60B, or maybe only $50B if the costs are off by 100%, and at the same time he's using masses of solar panels, batteries and induction motors.

So, how long before the petitions for Proposition 0 start?

 

[brianstorms]

@stevezzzz: Yet more evidence of some underlying childhood trauma that the NYT staff seems to blame Tesla for. Sheesh, how unprofessional and useless.

 

[StephenM]

I can't link it from my phone, but Hyperloop is the top story with an accompanying video commentary on my USA Today app. Maybe by capturing the imaginations of the broader populace this could cause a groundswell of support for a visionary idea. Here's hoping.

 

[Erleichda]

Doesn't it make sense here to partner with Virgin? Something like this could be disruptive to airlines, Branson has always tried to get to the next disruptive idea (space travel), and would gain a lot in being first to disrupt <1000mi city pairs. Other parts of the world have even denser city pairs (EU). Plus, if Elon is looking to supersonic flight with vertical take-off and landing, Virgin would vastly gain from partnering with Tesla/SpaceX. Let another entrepreneur take this on, one who stands to gain the most and will put their heart into it?

Just a thought. Seems Plausible.

 

[Norbert]

Elon's twitter account has 290,879 followers right now. Will it be 300,000 end of today?

Already at 303,640 followers...