I hope Tesla Lowers the Supercharging Rates

[Dan Detweiler]

Yes, but at the same time, it should cost less than using an ICE.

Why?

It should cost exactly what needs to be charged to maintain and expand the network. If that's more than gas, ok. For the VAST majority of Tesla owners Supercharging is an added benefit. A once in a while for big trips thing. Most owners are not using it daily. Yes, I know there are some that are, but it is very much a minority. Even if Supercharging were twice as expensive as current gas prices it would still be MUCH cheaper to fuel a Tesla than an ICE for most owners.

Dan

 

[Knightshade]

Yours is a reasoned response because we all need Tesla to beat the odds and continue thriving. Otherwise, our already challenged resale value would be somewhere south of an Edsel.

Challenged resale value?

Teslas typically have higher resale value than almost any other brand in their class-

Tesla Model S, X Hold Higher Resale Value Than Rivals

We won't have data on the 3 for a while, but especially with the tax credits expiring no reason to suspect it won't still be the case.

I also think they should be seriously considering partnering with major oil companies who own most of the gasoline stations. The stations are mostly convenience stores. And those stores would gladly charge a minimal rate of cost +20% on KW just to ensure that well-to-do Tesla customers come in and get a 100% profit margin beverage and snack while they wait. There are so many ways to play this without disenfranchising their most important asset- present and future customers.

They've already been partnering at a gas station chain for a while now-

Tesla Superchargers Now Beginning To Appear At Sheetz Stations | CleanTechnica

I'd be surprised if they're buying their power that way though, with a markup from the gas station included, rather than having their own metered service they pay directly.

 

[mservice]

Let’s discuss what Tesla is primarily about: altenitive energy. Yes, gas prices are a part of what many consider when buying a Tesla, but helping the environment is the other. Trust me, as electric vehicles increase charging prices will also increase. We live in a profit driven economy. I doubt that electric companies’ rates will decrease as demand increases, I also expect to see more taxes on owning an electric cars as revenue starts to slump from loss of gas taxes. So, if you are freaked out over super charging increasing costs, and are considering not buying an electric car, or selling one you own to go back to gas that’s your call. But, don’t cry when gas prices arbitrarily go back up. For all intent you are buying into the oil lobby’s hope to see the EVs fail, and could care less about the environmental impact of continuing to burn fossil fuels.

 

[rmfpdx]

The purpose of the supercharger network is to enable long distance travel with an EV, not necessarily to make it less expensive than using every ICE out there. For most people, long distance travel is only a small fraction of their yearly driving. Local driving is still much less expensive when you charge the home compared to buying gas. Also gas prices right now are the lowest they’ve been in years, but they’re not going to stay that way.

Not according to Tesla: Supercharger | Tesla. This is still on its website and in no way does it say that supercharging is only or primarily for long distance travel.
Superchargers in Urban Areas

Tesla is installing Superchargers in urban areas where city dwellers and out of town visitors can easily charge. These stations are placed at convenient locations like grocery stores, downtown districts, and shopping centers so charging fits seamlessly into your life.

Less Than the Cost of Gas

 

[Dans208]

A great discussion about Supercharging vs gas or ICE cars. Scing stations are a plus for me. I did not purchase our M3 to save money. I mainly charge at home and do Scing when on trips. I think Tesla has done a great job of building the SC network and a not so good job about publicizing it. The biggest concern people have in going to EV's is the charging concern of being somewhere without power. The expanding SC and other services like Chargepoint are/have fixed this concern. If you want to complain about different costs and rates being so different you should address the non-supercharger stations, they require memberships and prices are all over the map.

 

[Daniel in SD]

I doubt that electric companies’ rates will decrease as demand increases

In San Diego SDG&E has significantly decreased rates for charging EVs. Most of the cost of electricity is the fixed price of the grid and cost to meet peak demand. Adding more demand off peak times will only lower prices. Supercharger pricing is another issue though since they're often used at peak hours.

 

[Leong1234]

Battery like being charged slowly (like overnight) with 40 amps at 240V instead of fast as with the Supercharger with 250 amps at 400V.

Using Supercharger too frequently (like daily) is not good for your battery and can substantially shorten its life.

 

[roblab]

I hope Tesla figures out that Supercharging really is for trips, and places superchargers at places like rest stops or natural overlooks, far away from tempting urban or suburban drivers from using them for daily charging. Yes, you know who you are. If Tesla charges enough, maybe you'll see the worth of putting in your own outlet, or your HOA will be pressured by more Tesla or other EV drivers to put in charging. Then, guess what!! Your HOA fees will go up accordingly. Nothing is free for very long, because human nature abuses free every time.

 

[MP3Mike]

Battery like being charged slowly (like overnight) with 40 amps at 240V instead of fast as with the Supercharger with 250 amps at 400V.

Actually the batteries always charge at the voltage that is appropriate for the pack size and SoC.

So 40A Level 2 charging would be putting ~24A into the batteries vs. the ~300A from a Supercharger.

 

[JamesS]

I have faith that market forces and Tesla's over-all intention to hasten the move to EVs will ensure they don't over-charge for charging. One thing I'd like to see is the boundary between Tier 1 and 2 to move from 60KW to 72KW for the appearance of reasonableness and fairness. The reason for this is that the low power urban chargers charge at a maximum 72KW and if conditions allow, this puts the charge rate just over the edge into Tier 2 using the current boundary, where the perception would be that the user of these low-powered chargers is getting cheated since there is no way to get full Tier 2 charging from these chargers. With the full-size chargers which can charge up to 120KW, or some portion of that depending on conditions, and sharing etc. you could end up with full benefits in either Tier. The best option of all would be for Tesla to make a software update to allow the user to put an upper limit on the charge rate (just like you can with the portable charging cycle) to force the charge session into Tier 1 if the user feels the conditions do not favor Tier 2 charging. Power to the people and all that. All puns intended.

 

[brkaus]

They could have made ”Urban Chargers” and not called them superchargers. Keep building superchargers outside of major population centers.

Or new ”ultra chargers”...

 

[Chancellor32]

I think you are mistaken. I looked at the descriptions for quite a few of the cars from Tesla, and they all fit the expected pattern for Supercharging, with no universal "free because you bought from us". Maybe someone who has actually purchased a Used Tesla from Tesla can enlighten us.

Lol well as you say, someone who actually purchased a used car from Tesla I got free unlimited supercharging for life on my car. Bought my car a year ago and will never have to pay for supercharging. Why don’t you click on any of Tesla used cars and look for yourself. They all show FREE SUPERCHARGING. Nice try buddy

 

[GeorgeA]

Superchargers are suppose to be used for long distance travel (not local charging -> unless) and urban SCs for owners that are unable to install their own charger if say they live in a condo or setting that doesn't allow to install a personal or shared charger for whatever reason, think NYC, Miami etc. Although nobody likes paying more for anything but I have no problem with this particular increase in SC rates. Tesla has stated SCs will never become a profit center, just want to cover their costs. Doubling the SC network costs lots of money to meet future needs of all the S/X M3s populating the roads. I support this.

If anyone thinks SC cost is too high, either they might drive an above average long distance mileage while on a tight budget (idea->buy a Tesla with free lifetime SC), or they might always SC due to no convenient access to a nearby charger ie live in a condo without chargers etc or perhaps they don't support the larger long term mission of Tesla, which also includes to stay in business. Tesla has the right to adjust prices as any responsible business would do especially when trying to make a profit to stay in business long term. They have made a few necessary adjustments recently to do just that.

Tesla already has a USA SC network that is second to none that makes it very convenient with quick chargers for me to travel long distance. Most non-Tesla chargers take hours to charge, a few exceptions I know, but most are not conveniently located or even in large enough quantities or available and require a lot of planning to find these non-Tesla chargers and hope they are operational and not already being used.

 

[BerTX]

Lol well as you say, someone who actually purchased a used car from Tesla I got free unlimited supercharging for life on my car. Bought my car a year ago and will never have to pay for supercharging. Why don’t you click on any of Tesla used cars and look for yourself. They all show FREE SUPERCHARGING. Nice try buddy

No, they don't. Cars produced before January 15, 2017 show free supercharging. Others do not. Sorry, I was trying to be nice to you, giving you the benefit of the doubt, allowing you to go look. Obviously you don't care to do that, just want to be rude.

 

[Nekota]

6 cents is not average in NC. Or are you talking about what the prior SC rate was?
I pay about 11 cents in Duke Power territory - which I believe is most of the state.
At the coast, we have a co-op and the price is within 5% of that (but we do get a $20 rebate once a year)

Remember that the first 250 miles (give or take) of any trip is at your home rate.

You would have been better off getting a used Corolla. Or a used Model S I suspect.

NC rural electrification or REA was established in NC in the 1940's to provide electricity to rural areas of NC through membership cooperatives. The area around Fayetteville is serviced by South River EMC and they have a time of use rate for electric vehicles that has three time of day uses.

Energy Charges:

For all On-Peak kWh used per month 43.88¢ per kWh Summer 33.79¢ per kWh Winter

For all Off-Peak kWh used per month 4.77¢ per kWh Summer 4.77¢ per kWh Winter

For all Super Off-Peak kWh used per month 3.97¢ per kWh Summer 3.97¢ per kWh Winter

The on-peak times are 2pm - 6pm in summer and 6am-9am in winter, super off-peak times are 10pm-5am and off-peak are all other times. So careful use of time of day charging can provide charging for less than a nickel per kwhr. PG&E rates are much higher and very difficult to calculate with the base load that depends on zip code and adds 2 increasing multipliers for additional electric energy over the base load (base load is typically about 10kwhr/day for zone X (San Jose). For summer M-F there are 3 time of use EV rates of $0.48 (2-9pm), $0.26 (7am-2pm & 9-11pm) and $0.12 (11pm-7am). Now if you choose an EV rate there are no tiers compared to the typical E1 residential rates.

The idea of buying an EV to save money over an ICE based on fuel cost is getting worse with the decline in gasoline prices. Now if we can get a more level playing field by passage of the bipartisan Energy Innovation and Carbon Dividend Act then this will help the economics of EVs. So call your member of congress and ask for their support.

 

[Chancellor32]

No, they don't. Cars produced before January 15, 2017 show free supercharging. Others do not. Sorry, I was trying to be nice to you, giving you the benefit of the doubt, allowing you to go look. Obviously you don't care to do that, just want to be rude.

Ahh my bad so the 4 that are listed for sale that are used dont qualify. The other 1200 do so no big deal.

 

[BerTX]

Ahh my bad so the 4 that are listed for sale that are used dont qualify. The other 1200 do so no big deal.

I would love for you to be right, because I would only buy a Tesla with free Supercharging. It is important to me. If I want AP2 AND free Supercharging, the only window of opportunity I have is cars produced between October, 2016 and January 15, 2017.

How about "Almost all of the used cars Tesla currently has for sale come with Free Unlimited Supercharging." I can go along with that statement. Indicating that Tesla puts Free Supercharging on the cars they sell as used cars is not true, as a policy.

 

[Knightshade]

NC rural electrification or REA was established in NC in the 1940's to provide electricity to rural areas of NC through membership cooperatives. The area around Fayetteville is serviced by South River EMC and they have a time of use rate for electric vehicles that has three time of day uses.

Energy Charges:

For all On-Peak kWh used per month 43.88¢ per kWh Summer 33.79¢ per kWh Winter

For all Off-Peak kWh used per month 4.77¢ per kWh Summer 4.77¢ per kWh Winter

For all Super Off-Peak kWh used per month 3.97¢ per kWh Summer 3.97¢ per kWh Winter

The on-peak times are 2pm - 6pm in summer and 6am-9am in winter, super off-peak times are 10pm-5am and off-peak are all other times. So careful use of time of day charging can provide charging for less than a nickel per kwhr. PG&E rates are much higher and very difficult to calculate with the base load that depends on zip code and adds 2 increasing multipliers for additional electric energy over the base load (base load is typically about 10kwhr/day for zone X (San Jose). For summer M-F there are 3 time of use EV rates of $0.48 (2-9pm), $0.26 (7am-2pm & 9-11pm) and $0.12 (11pm-7am). Now if you choose an EV rate there are no tiers compared to the typical E1 residential rates.

The idea of buying an EV to save money over an ICE based on fuel cost is getting worse with the decline in gasoline prices. Now if we can get a more level playing field by passage of the bipartisan Energy Innovation and Carbon Dividend Act then this will help the economics of EVs. So call your member of congress and ask for their support.

FWIW I'm also on a co-op in NC... also on EV time of day... also with 3 rates.... and super off peak for me is only 2.79 cents per kwh all year.

So when I charge my car at home it's about $2 per 300 miles of range.

I don't think I need to worry too much about an ICE car being "as cheap" to operate.

(plus they give you a $50 one time bill credit just for having an EV at all, and another $50 credit for switching to time of use billing for EVs)


Winter:

6AM-10AM Peak, 10AM-10PM off peak, 10AM-10PM (and 5-6AM) off peak, 10PM-5AM SUPER off peak



Summer:

1PM-6PM Peak, 5AM-1PM and 6PM-10PM off peak, 10PM-5AM SUPER off peak



All Weekends and Holidays are SUPER off peak 10PM-5AM, off peak other hours. No Peak.

Summer/winter changeover is Sunday of 2nd full weekend in April and October.


Rates:
Energy Charges: Winter Summer

On-peak 26.42¢ per on-peak kWh 33.69¢ per on-peak kWh

Off-peak 6.14¢ per off-peak kWh 6.14¢ per off-peak kWh

Super off-peak 2.79¢ per super off-peak kWh 2.79¢ per super off-peak kWh